What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one? - Page 6

Amnorix · 03-19-2008, 08:00 AM

I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system.

This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses.

The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway.

The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history.

I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult.

I don't get it. Am I missing something?

I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-19-2008, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vailpass

You can be a Montana fan and still acknowledge he was a system QB, probably the best system QB to ever play the game.
Do you think Montana would have won as many games as Favre or Elway if he had played on the teams either of those had; teams that required the QB to carry the game in many of their seasons?

BTW, I'm not saying 'system QB' is a negative, I don't think it is at all. I consider the term to mean the QB has mastered the offense and runs it at top capacity.

Does your dumbass realize that Favre spent every year of his starting career as a West Coast QB??

You dipfucks act like Montana had a noodle arm--he actually had good arm strength, and was laser accurate. He could have played in any system--Coryell, WCO, Herm Ball, and won.

People also forget that he was a hell of an athlete. He ran for a lot of yards early in his career and he was very, very mobile.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-19-2008, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

Look at the top 5 of all-time the onl yone that wasn't in the right situation and that was John Elway that man had shit around him including coaches for most of his career that man literally took his teams on his back to the SB when he was young.

It was a hell of an accomplishment, but the AFC from the mid 80's to the mid 90's was probably the weakest conference in the history of professional football. They didn't just lose Super Bowls, they got massacred (with the exception of the Bengals and the first Bills team).

That's like praising LeBron for taking the Cavs to the finals in the East when Tim Duncan is going through hell and back (albeit with more talent), coming out of the West, and still stomping a mudhole when he gets to the championship game.

DenverChief · 03-19-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

David Klinger, Andre Ware, etc. were system quarterbacks. That is why they couldn't cut it in the NFL. You could have put Montana in any system and he would have looked good, because he was good.

Montana would not have survived a Run-N-Shoot offense

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-19-2008, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverChief

Montana would not have survived a Run-N-Shoot offense

Who gives a rat fuck? That was an awful system that flourished for about 4 years, then burned out faster than Milli Vanilli.

That's like saying that Barry Sanders wasn't an all-around great back because he wasn't designed to run in the Bill Cowher pound-me-in-the-ass 71 times a game offense.

**Tribal Warfare** · 03-20-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_5627

Uuuuh no. All 4(?), John couldve stepped right in and hit all those precision passes? Doubt that, Joe probably couldnt have done what Elway did with his teams. They each did it their own way.

obviously you don't remember how good John Elway was, the guy was an absolute stud. He threw ball very accurately too

DenverChief · 03-20-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Who gives a rat fuck? That was an awful system that flourished for about 4 years, then burned out faster than Milli Vanilli.

That's like saying that Barry Sanders wasn't an all-around great back because he wasn't designed to run in the Bill Cowher pound-me-in-the-ass 71 times a game offense.

no it is not...it is like saying the Sanders wouldn't have been the back he was if he was thrust into the Bill Cowher pound-me-in-the-ass 71 times a game offense.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 03-20-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverChief

no it is not...it is like saying the Sanders wouldn't have been the back he was if he was thrust into the Bill Cowher pound-me-in-the-ass 71 times a game offense.

The Run N' Shoot was proven to be an illegitimate system. It's not a viable test of a QB's skills.

Montana also wouldn't have prospered had they run the swinging gate offense. BFD.

DenverChief · 03-20-2008, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The Run N' Shoot was proven to be an illegitimate system. It's not a viable test of a QB's skills.

Montana also wouldn't have prospered had they run the swinging gate offense. BFD.

uh okay Montana was successful BECAUSE he was a west coast offense QB....if Montana was thrust into a P-A-F al la Steve DeBerg type offense he would not have been as successful ...Christian Okoye would not have been the back he was if he played in a run outside the tackles type offense....

Amnorix · 03-20-2008, 05:00 AM

So....back to the basics.

"System QB" means any QB not named Favre, Elway, and maybe Montana.

Great -- what a dumb f**king term. Remind me to blast anyone who ever uses it in that type of context.

The ONLY definition of that term I've seen on here that makes any sense at all is for a college QB who is from a ridiculously wide open system that results in crazy stats for a QB who is doomed to fail in the NFL because that system can't work at the pro level.

DenverChief · 03-20-2008, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

So....back to the basics.

"System QB" means any QB not named Favre, Elway, and maybe Montana.

Great -- what a dumb f**king term. Remind me to blast anyone who ever uses it in that type of context.

The ONLY definition of that term I've seen on here that makes any sense at all is for a college QB who is from a ridiculously wide open system that results in crazy stats for a QB who is doomed to fail in the NFL because that system can't work at the pro level.

I think that you are correct in your initial assessment that the majority of QB's are system QB's and will flourish or falter depending on the offense they play in (as well as with just about every position on the football field...I mean Dante Hall would not be a good fit as a #1 WR for a team the relied heavily on its #1 WR to block LB's in the running game) so in essence everyone is a "system" something or other with the few exceptions of truly gifted athletes who can excel in any system

Amnorix · 03-20-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverChief

I think that you are correct in your initial assessment that the majority of QB's are system QB's and will flourish or falter depending on the offense they play in (as well as with just about every position on the football field...I mean Dante Hall would not be a good fit as a #1 WR for a team the relied heavily on its #1 WR to block LB's in the running game) so in essence everyone is a "system" something or other with the few exceptions of truly gifted athletes who can excel in any system

Which is why I think the phrase "system QB" is meaningless. It's just a useless phrase when applying it to a NFL QB, especially since it' smeant to be derogatory.

If having a system QB means being stuck with Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, then sign me up for having a system QB.

DenverChief · 03-20-2008, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Which is why I think the phrase "system QB" is meaningless. It's just a useless phrase when applying it to a NFL QB, especially since it' smeant to be derogatory.

If having a system QB means being stuck with Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, then sign me up for having a system QB.

I agree wholeheartedly sir...where do I sign?

vailpass · 03-20-2008, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

John Elway brought an unmatched ability to improvise and carried some pretty mediocre teams to the SB.

He also overcame handcuffing by Dan Reeves.

Still, Montana brought that leadership and quiet confidence.

I don't know that he could have taken the Donks to those 3 pre-rat SBs, but I wouldn't bet against him.

Fair enough. My only rebuttal would be that when you have a line that can't hold anyone out and your plays break down regularly it's kinda nice to have a big tough frame and a cannon arm to go with the quiet confidence.

vailpass · 03-20-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefs_5627

That could be spun around and asked back, could Elway have taken Joes teams to the big one?

You're frigging kidding me right? You picture Elway with the weapons Montana had and tell me how many rings he would have won.

chiefscafan · 03-20-2008, 10:54 AM

I'm sorry but montana had no arm and was little?

I may not have enough posts to say an opinion but I have to tell this little tidbit.

I lived in topeka , ks and my dad , brother and me would take turns going to the chiefs games with our season tickets.

I saw JOe's first game as a chief.

I was about 17 and me and my dad were at the game and we were watching warm up drills. This drill was the qb would throw an out pattern to the receiver.

My dad turns to me and says "justin do you want to see the difference between a pro bowl qb and a hall of fame qb in the NFL."

of course I said sure.

he says watch Dave Krieg . So krieg goes back and the receiver stutters and catches the ball. he then says now watch Joe.

JOe goes back and the receiver never breaks stride.

joe may have been small by today standards and couldn't throw a 70 yd bomb. But he is by far the most accurate passer I've ever seen.

I'm sorry I would take joe montana over any qb today or any in the last 50 years.

heck thanks to him petterson actually did win some playoff games LOL

03-19-2008, 08:00 AM
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	What the Hell is a "System QB" and why is it bad to be one? I just saw this in another thread (Ryan's Pro Day workout at BC) and it brought to mind why this phrase gets tossed around all the time as some kind of insult. As I understand it, "He's just a system QB" is generally thrown out there to say that a QB looks better than he really is, presumably because the "system" that he is in MAKES him look better. In other words, it's not the QB that is good/great, it's the system. This entire concept makes NO sense to me. EVERY QB, especially in the NFL, plays in a fantastically complicated offensive "system" that is DESIGNED to make him look good. Coaches and players spend hundreds of hours every week (combined) analyzing weaknesses in the opposing defense and trying to adapt their "system" and plays to take advantage of the weaknesses. The only way this makes any sense is to suggest that a system QB isn't as good as a "non-system" QB in the sense that when the play breaks down, the QB can't improvise. In other words, he's not a Favre or Elway. The severe problem with this statement is that there are very, very few Favre's or Elways. If by "system QB" you mean that he's not a highly athletic runner who also has a shotgun, accurate arm and is one of the top 10 QBs in history, then that's no insult at all. It applies to 99.9% of the quarterbacks in NFL history. I note, also, that if this is what you mean by "system QB", then Marino, Brady, Manning, Fouts, and god-knows how many other awesome QBs who couldn't run well are also "just system QBs" and therefore subject to insult. I don't get it. Am I missing something? I honestly would like to see this phrase disappear from NFL-fan lexicon. It's worthless as a statement.
Posts: 43,125

03-20-2008, 05:00 AM	#84
Amnorix In BB I trust Join Date: May 2003 Location: Boston, Mass. Casino cash: $10029808	So....back to the basics. "System QB" means any QB not named Favre, Elway, and maybe Montana. Great -- what a dumb f**king term. Remind me to blast anyone who ever uses it in that type of context. The ONLY definition of that term I've seen on here that makes any sense at all is for a college QB who is from a ridiculously wide open system that results in crazy stats for a QB who is doomed to fail in the NFL because that system can't work at the pro level. __________________ "I love signature blocks on the Internet. I get to put whatever the hell I want in quotes, pick a pretend author, and bang, it's like he really said it." George Washington
Posts: 43,125

03-20-2008, 10:54 AM	#90
chiefscafan Veteran Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: manhattan beach, CA Casino cash: $9688215	I'm sorry but montana had no arm and was little? I may not have enough posts to say an opinion but I have to tell this little tidbit. I lived in topeka , ks and my dad , brother and me would take turns going to the chiefs games with our season tickets. I saw JOe's first game as a chief. I was about 17 and me and my dad were at the game and we were watching warm up drills. This drill was the qb would throw an out pattern to the receiver. My dad turns to me and says "justin do you want to see the difference between a pro bowl qb and a hall of fame qb in the NFL." of course I said sure. he says watch Dave Krieg . So krieg goes back and the receiver stutters and catches the ball. he then says now watch Joe. JOe goes back and the receiver never breaks stride. joe may have been small by today standards and couldn't throw a 70 yd bomb. But he is by far the most accurate passer I've ever seen. I'm sorry I would take joe montana over any qb today or any in the last 50 years. heck thanks to him petterson actually did win some playoff games LOL
Posts: 4,425