On ESPN now is a draft special.. - Page 6

Mecca · 04-07-2009, 06:01 PM

Schlereth is going to explain why Curry isn't worth a top 10 pick is one of the teasers..

RustShack · 04-08-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

He takes on blocks and sheds them. That's what's LBs are supposed to do isn't it? The guys a beast he'll be able to shed blocks in the NFL just fine." He had a clear path to the QB" , and he "runs through blockers" so he's fast enough to blow by blockers and bad enough to run through blockers but he won't we able to rush the passer? What......ever.

PhilFree

If blowing through college RB's was all it took to be a good pass rusher we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, because our roster would already be full of those players.

milkman · 04-08-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philfree

Curry takes on and sheds blocks so well I think he'll be able to beat the blocks. Curry is more then just a speed backer and more then one draft guru says that he can turn the corner. I watched enough of him that I think he'll bea ble to do it. Have you seen anything that says he won't be able to do it?

PhilFree

No. I haven't seen anything that says he can't do it.

But neither have I seen anything that guarantees that he can, and that is what I'm debating.

As Parker said, you don't take what is essentially a project at #3.

If you take a player at #3 for a specific skillset, in this case pass rush, you have to have strong evidence that he has the neccessary skills to succeed.

You simply do not have that with Curry.

RustShack · 04-08-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

really, it's easy to teach reading plays, screens, routes? watching the ball and staying with the TE while you do it? It's funny. I'm only arguing the points here, not saying Hali will/should be moved, but he was a smaller DE, that specialized more in the rush, that fits the majority of the DE-to LB talk. But because he was asked to do it from the stance only and on the stronger side, he suddenly doesn't have that potential he had coming out of college anymore? It makes me "stupid" to speculate this, how?

DE/LB tweeners are 3-4 OLB's. OLB's are drafted for their pass rush ability, not their coverage ability. Coverage is a big bonus, not your main job as an OLB. Coverage who can occasionally get to the QB belong at ILB, and thats just what Curry is. Thats also a position that isn't a major need in a 3-4 defense, and can be found in free agency and later rounds of the draft. ILB's aren't really all that valuable and we could get away fine with who we already have on the roster at that position.

crazycoffey · 04-08-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

DE/LB tweeners are 3-4 OLB's. Don't ask me why its easier to learn to cover than it is to pass rush, I'm not a coach. OLB's are drafted for their pass rush ability, not their coverage ability. Coverage is a big bonus, not your main job as an OLB.

then why was it "stupid" to speculate that Hali could be an OLB in the 3-4? He was a tweener coming out, but was put on the line over RT and had slight success, and last year put on the line over LT and he was dominated. He has the skill to rush, and was projected a possible 3-4 OLB coming out of college. I guess I don't understand why this topic turns to impossible, because he had a really bad year.

RustShack · 04-08-2009, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

then why was it "stupid" to speculate that Hali could be an OLB in the 3-4? He was a tweener coming out, but was put on the line over RT and had slight success, and last year put on the line over LT and he was dominated. He has the skill to rush, and was projected a possible 3-4 OLB coming out of college. I guess I don't understand why this topic turns to impossible, because he had a really bad year.

Hali just isn't athletic enough or fast enough to cover, he really isn't that good of a pass rusher either.

crazycoffey · 04-08-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Hali just isn't athletic enough or fast enough to cover, he really isn't that good of a pass rusher either.

I agree he hasn't done our team very proud, but the point of argument in this thread is all about potential coming out of college. Coming out of college Hali was seen as a pass rusher who was undersized at DE and could occasionally drop into coverage. We've only used him on the line and it's proved now that it's unsuitable for Hali. If he were switched to OLB in a 3-4, than why is it stupid to speculate he could have more success? Isn't that what many are speculating about several smaller DE's in this draft?

I don't understand how he was athletic enough after his senior year, but now he's not....

same thing with Dorsey, it's been debated to death as well, but most agree he didn't do wonderful things his first year, one reason is possibly because he wasn't used "right". So if he's used "right" why is it hard to speculate he could/should have more success.

what was ryan leaf asked to do in the pros that he didn't do in college, leading to his bust status? Raji wasn't asked to be a dominate NT in the 3-4 in college, but he automatically can because of his size?

milkman · 04-08-2009, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

I agree he hasn't done our team very proud, but the point of argument in this thread is all about potential coming out of college. Coming out of college Hali was seen as a pass rusher who was undersized at DE and could occasionally drop into coverage. We've only used him on the line and it's proved now that it's unsuitable for Hali. If he were switched to OLB in a 3-4, than why is it stupid to speculate he could have more success? Isn't that what many are speculating about several smaller DE's in this draft?

I don't understand how he was athletic enough after his senior year, but now he's not....

same thing with Dorsey, it's been debated to death as well, but most agree he didn't do wonderful things his first year, one reason is possibly because he wasn't used "right". So if he's used "right" why is it hard to speculate he could/should have more success.

what was ryan leaf asked to do in the pros that he didn't do in college, leading to his bust status? Raji wasn't asked to be a dominate NT in the 3-4 in college, but he automatically can because of his size?

Hali was considered athletic coming out of college?

Chiefnj2 · 04-08-2009, 12:20 PM

Hali isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be.

His first two years with no help whatsoever from the DTs, but having a very good DE on the opposite side Hali put up pretty good LDE numbers - 7.5 and 8 sacks and 7 FF total. He's got a good motor and gives a good effort the entire game. You can win a championship with him at the LDE position with that type of production. He wasn't a top 10 pick. He isn't a RDE. He isn't a speed rusher. People shouldn't be expecting Mario Williams type numbers from him.

RustShack · 04-08-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Hali was considered athletic coming out of college?

I always thought he was maxed out, a reach, and just had a high motor.

RustShack · 04-08-2009, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

Hali isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be.

His first two years with no help whatsoever from the DTs, but having a very good DE on the opposite side Hali put up pretty good LDE numbers - 7.5 and 8 sacks and 7 FF total. He's got a good motor and gives a good effort the entire game. You can win a championship with him at the LDE position with that type of production. He wasn't a top 10 pick. He isn't a RDE. He isn't a speed rusher. People shouldn't be expecting Mario Williams type numbers from him.

They shouldn't be expecting a OLB out of him either.

htismaqe · 04-08-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrRyan

Very nice try with the spin there. Shall we bring up the history of underclassmen with one year of college starting experience. Like I said in the first post in this thread, if we cannot trade down and the Chiefs have a QB as the BPA then, you take him. If not, you don't.

Please spare me the Sanchez is not a project rhetoric though. He is a project that has started 16 games in college.

It's not spin. Sanchez HAS played QB. Curry HAS NOT rushed the passer.

Not wanting to acknowledge the difference is the epitome of spin.

htismaqe · 04-08-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrazyCoffey

can't really say that curry could be a pass rusher, but I guess I'm just not as educated/studied/experienced as you, mecca, htis, or pioli....

WHOA.

I NEVER said that Curry can't be a pass rusher.

I've said since Day 1 that EXPECTING him to be a pass rusher, when history has no evidence to support it, is folly.

He may very well turn into a pass rusher at the next level - he certainly has the athleticism for it. But BANKING on it happening isn't a risk I'm willing to take at #3.

htismaqe · 04-08-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

not true. they are enamored with his athletic ability, his playmaking ability, his character, his leadership and his ability to help a struggling team win games. Wake Forest was a much better team with Curry.

That's why the scouting reports all list "has very few holes in his game" near the top of his Positives...

htismaqe · 04-08-2009, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcbubb

JaMarcus Russell is probably the most recent underclassmen QB to struggle. He got a lot of hype too after a big bowl game performance. Do you remember? LSU beat Notre Dame and then Quinn dropped like a rock in the draft. Sanchez is getting a lot of hype right after a big bowl game too. What if Sanchez has a bad game in the bowl game? Are we even talking about him now? To me, his resume is too short.

But I would love for someone to trade up for him.

There's absolutely ZERO comparison between Russell and Sanchez.

Russell is a monster physical specimen with a rocket arm and questions about his work ethic and aptitude.

Sanchez has a superior work ethic and aptitude with questions about his height and arm strength.

Give me a break.

htismaqe · 04-08-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustShack

Hali just isn't athletic enough or fast enough to cover, he really isn't that good of a pass rusher either.

Hali is still on the team, and he certainly can't play any other position.

He might not be good, but he's going to play OLB.

04-07-2009, 06:01 PM
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-782950	On ESPN now is a draft special.. Schlereth is going to explain why Curry isn't worth a top 10 pick is one of the teasers..
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04-08-2009, 12:20 PM	#83
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	Hali isn't nearly as bad as people make him out to be. His first two years with no help whatsoever from the DTs, but having a very good DE on the opposite side Hali put up pretty good LDE numbers - 7.5 and 8 sacks and 7 FF total. He's got a good motor and gives a good effort the entire game. You can win a championship with him at the LDE position with that type of production. He wasn't a top 10 pick. He isn't a RDE. He isn't a speed rusher. People shouldn't be expecting Mario Williams type numbers from him. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
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