"Official" 2011 St. Louis Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

This is so unreal. We were dead. No hope. A season over. Somehow, someway we find some team chemistry and squeak into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Only to find us facing one of the best pitching staffs assembled in years with home field advantage. We somehow, someway find a way to beat the best pitcher in baseball on the road in an elimination game.

We have to go on the road and beat the team with the best home record in baseball. A team who mortgaged their future to make this run .We somehow, someway find a way to beat them on the road and make our 18th World series trip.

We take game 1, we give away game 2 and home field advantage. Albert goes off for probably the best performance in World Series history and we take game 3 easily. Games 4 & 5 our bats fall asleep, Phone gate happens and its not looking too good.

Game 6, one of the best baseball games of all time and it takes place in a season ending go home game. Cardinals are down 2 runs in their final chance on the season, twice. They are down to their final strike of the season, twice. They give up a 2 run homer in extra innings. In the bottom of the inning their final 3 batters are a combined 3-26 in the Playoffs and a pitcher because the bench is empty. Somehow, someway they get some runners on and the comeback player of the year drives in the tying run. Mr. Freese hits the walk off home run. We will see you tommorrow night.

Game 7, With our bulldog on the mound pitching on 3 days rest he is able to give us 6 good innings and get us to within 9 outs of our 11 World series title. Texas meltsdown, probably left over from last nights game and its over.

The underdog, come back team who had no business even being in the playoffs wins a World championship. They make movies about events like this in life. Events that you remember even if your not a fan of the sport or team for the rest of your life.

When it is your team.......Priceless


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[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

Are you talking about Cantu?

Yeah. Word is that the Padres are considering him in a platoon position at 1b w/ Hawpe, of all people and that he'll play 3b as his performance warrants.

He's a strange pickup for them. I wonder if they're not trying to push Headley a little more.

Like I said, it just looks to me like the Padres are stockpiling guys that would fit very well in STL in order to bend Mo over again in July.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

Are you talking about Cantu?

My bad, I see that you were.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah. Word is that the Padres are considering him in a platoon position at 1b w/ Hawpe, of all people and that he'll play 3b as his performance warrants.

He's a strange pickup for them. I wonder if they're not trying to push Headley a little more.

Like I said, it just looks to me like the Padres are stockpiling guys that would fit very well in STL in order to bend Mo over again in July.

If they'd signed Cantu as a 3b, I would be all for it, as I think Freese is still unproven at the ML leve, and agree about Cantu's bat vs. Skips; that said, I still don't think there are many good 2b in MLB. The Cards have drafted a couple (Zachary Cox can play there, and also Peter Kozma, a 1st rder in '07), but neither have panned out yet.

Also, the farm system has largely disappointed in recent years. I asked Derrick Goold about the new acadamies built in '06 in Columbia and the Dominican, and he pontificated that the Cards would have a "pipeline" of talent from those areas by 2010. Well, after watching the MLB "Top 50 Prospects" special, and seeing only 1, Shelby Miller, crack the list, I was even more disappointed.

Hopefully, all will be good. I think they'll be better than you think.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

John Mozeliak isn't the GM of this team, Tony LaRussa is.

A couple of other things:

1) One of the reasons why Antonetti didn't take that job is also because of the bizarre, incestuous relationship between Luhnow and Mozeliak, not just the "you have to have TLR, etc"

2) Cantu would be a horrible defensive 2B, but he's at least semi-mediocre at third

3) Kozma will never take an AB for this team at the big league level

4) Schumaker isn't the worst defensive 2B in baseball, he's the worst 2B in baseball.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

John Mozeliak isn't the GM of this team, Tony LaRussa is.

A couple of other things:

1) One of the reasons why Antonetti didn't take that job is also because of the bizarre, incestuous relationship between Luhnow and Mozeliak, not just the "you have to have TLR, etc"

2) Cantu would be a horrible defensive 2B, but he's at least semi-mediocre at third

3) Kozma will never take an AB for this team at the big league level

4) Schumaker isn't the worst defensive 2B in baseball, he's the worst 2B in baseball.

Wasn't Antonetti basically the GM in waiting in Cleveland?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Mi_chief_fan

If they'd signed Cantu as a 3b, I would be all for it, as I think Freese is still unproven at the ML leve, and agree about Cantu's bat vs. Skips; that said, I still don't think there are many good 2b in MLB. The Cards have drafted a couple (Zachary Cox can play there, and also Peter Kozma, a 1st rder in '07), but neither have panned out yet.

Also, the farm system has largely disappointed in recent years. I asked Derrick Goold about the new acadamies built in '06 in Columbia and the Dominican, and he pontificated that the Cards would have a "pipeline" of talent from those areas by 2010. Well, after watching the MLB "Top 50 Prospects" special, and seeing only 1, Shelby Miller, crack the list, I was even more disappointed.

Hopefully, all will be good. I think they'll be better than you think.

I've seen Pete Kozma play - he's atrocious. I doubt we ever see him at the major league level and I'm certain we'll never see him as more than a utility player. Any kind of fastball overpowers him, he doesn't identify a slider well and he can't stay back on a curveball. I watched Shelby Miller absolutely murder the boy last spring on the back fields in Jupiter.

It will be interesting to see what Cox can do. Scouting reports vary so widely on the kid that we don't know if we have a guy with 25 HR power waiting to develop that can play both 2b and 3b effectively or a guy with 10 HR power and the ability to play nowhere. He's just a very strange prospect.

Descalso can play at this level, but LaRussa won't play him. So why do we think Cox will ever get a legitimate shot? Is it because of how much of an opportunity Greene has had? Or maybe because we watched him mind-**** Brendan Ryan right out of town. Or perhaps the fact that he's well on his way to doing the same thing to Rasmus? If a rookie doesn't come up and flash All-Star talent immediately (Pujols and Molina), he simply gets buried and ****ed with by LaRussa until he's broken down. It's a pattern he's had for a decade plus now, not sure why we'd expect anything different.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

John Mozeliak isn't the GM of this team, Tony LaRussa is.

A couple of other things:

1) One of the reasons why Antonetti didn't take that job is also because of the bizarre, incestuous relationship between Luhnow and Mozeliak, not just the "you have to have TLR, etc"

2) Cantu would be a horrible defensive 2B, but he's at least semi-mediocre at third

3) Kozma will never take an AB for this team at the big league level

4) Schumaker isn't the worst defensive 2B in baseball, he's the worst 2B in baseball.

If LaRussa is gone and Antonetti takes the job, Mozeliak's gone. So in that sense, the argument doesn't wash. The primary culprit was DeWitt's refusal to allow the GM the opportunity to pick his own staff, field management included.

And while LaRussa may tell Mozeliak who to get, it's Mozeliak that actually does the horse trading. In that regard, he's absolutely awful. From the Lohse extension to giving Gregerson away like he was nothing, to waiting too long on the DeRosa deal so he had to include Todd, to bidding against himself on Holliday, etc... the man just has no ability to actually make a shrewd deal.

Jocketty had a similar relationship with LaRussa. However, when LaRussa said he needed a OFer, we gave up Kent Bottenfield for a borderline HOFer. When we needed a power bat and a defensive upgrade, we got one of the best defensive 3b of all time for Placido Polanco. When we needed to deal a percieved clubhouse malcontent that played RF, we got the kid that probably won the WS for us as a dynamite closer and has since gone on to finish in the top 3 of the CY voting the last 2 years. Clearly, Jocketty was a HELL of a lot better at this than John Mozeliak.

It's not the marching orders that bothers me as much as Mozeliak's complete inability to effectuate them effectively.

[BigRedChief]

I was watching sportcenter this am and the anchors reported that Pujols says that unless a deal is worked out before the start of Spring training he will not accept any trade to any team and will become a free agent at the end of the year.

[BigRedChief]

Link to the espn story:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6070963

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Jesus Christ, just give him $40 million a year and get this shit over with.

8 years, $40 million per.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If LaRussa is gone and Antonetti takes the job, Mozeliak's gone. So in that sense, the argument doesn't wash. The primary culprit was DeWitt's refusal to allow the GM the opportunity to pick his own staff, field management included.

And while LaRussa may tell Mozeliak who to get, it's Mozeliak that actually does the horse trading. In that regard, he's absolutely awful. From the Lohse extension to giving Gregerson away like he was nothing, to waiting too long on the DeRosa deal so he had to include Todd, to bidding against himself on Holliday, etc... the man just has no ability to actually make a shrewd deal.

Jocketty had a similar relationship with LaRussa. However, when LaRussa said he needed a OFer, we gave up Kent Bottenfield for a borderline HOFer. When we needed a power bat and a defensive upgrade, we got one of the best defensive 3b of all time for Placido Polanco. When we needed to deal a percieved clubhouse malcontent that played RF, we got the kid that probably won the WS for us as a dynamite closer and has since gone on to finish in the top 3 of the CY voting the last 2 years. Clearly, Jocketty was a HELL of a lot better at this than John Mozeliak.

It's not the marching orders that bothers me as much as Mozeliak's complete inability to effectuate them effectively.

I think you are conflating commonly accepted needs vs. orders to make player personnel acquisitions. They are discrete entities.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Jesus Christ, just give him $40 million a year and get this shit over with.

8 years, $40 million per.

I think we can afford Pujols and have a competitve team. It's not one or the other. We pull in 3 million every year. We are a top 10 team in payroll and no one is losing money. Pay the frikking man before hard feelings set in. To watch Pujols bang at Wrigley for the next 8 years or so would just be too painful to watch.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Pay him whatever it takes and raise ticket prices by a few bucks. It's not rocket science.

Despite what others have said, you can have Pujols and have a WS caliber team. The difference is you'll have to finish that team out with young, cost-controlled players. That can easily be done if you know how to draft and develop.

Are the Cardinals, even with the limitations put on them by the Pujols and Holliday deals, going to be on a tighter budget than say, the Rays? No. If your FO is competent, you can win with two big-money players (who are also earning their salary). If they aren't, you won't.

It's that simple.

Look, if Mozeliak isn't good enough to get equal value for Brendan Ryan, what makes you think he can do it for Pujols? The potential downside is too great, and the risk is minimal. The floor of the reward (watching him break a bunch of meaningful ML records, hit milestones, etc) is, in and of itself, enough to justify the risk of the contract.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Pay him whatever it takes and raise ticket prices by a few bucks. It's not rocket science.

Despite what others have said, you can have Pujols and have a WS caliber team. The difference is you'll have to finish that team out with young, cost-controlled players. That can easily be done if you know how to draft and develop.

Are the Cardinals, even with the limitations put on them by the Pujols and Holliday deals, going to be on a tighter budget than say, the Rays? No. If your FO is competent, you can win with two big-money players (who are also earning their salary). If they aren't, you won't.

It's that simple.

Look, if Mozeliak isn't good enough to get equal value for Brendan Ryan, what makes you think he can do it for Pujols? The potential downside is too great, and the risk is minimal. The floor of the reward (watching him break a bunch of meaningful ML records, hit milestones, etc) is, in and of itself, enough to justify the risk of the contract.

Sure, paying Pujols $16 million instead of $30 million makes it a little harder to compete. Puts more pressure on the draft and development but we still have room for error, whereas the Royals etc can be set back easily with a failed prospect. Mo has to do a better job.

[KChiefs1]

Cardinal owners should add $10/seat...Card fans will pay it.

Pay the Man!