Did y'all catch Squirmin Herman's spot on ESPN about Shady?

[Mr. Flopnuts]

He straight up went the **** off! I don't know if this happened this morning, or a couple of days ago but he lost his ****ing shit over it! It was great. I'll try and track down something I can embed into this post. For those who saw it, did you laugh, or were you almost embarrassed for the guy?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

17 dudes that deserve a roster spot (your numbers) in three years at a whopping clip 5.6 players per year is not effective. And very likely at least some of those 17 dudes are in the personnel department. Not solely Herm.

He was right to cut some fat. But you don't have to win 2 mother****ing games to do it.

Herm was awful in every single aspect of his job.

17 dudes. 10 or so of them excellent football players
-They spent almost no money to do that. In doing so they cleared up $57 million dollars in cap space in 2009. $57M. You do realize that's enough money to buy you 5 more superstars, right?
-They relied almost exclusively on draft picks. 2 out of 3 years they were picking in the 20's
-So you're advocating saving a few wins here and there? They could have started Huard, McIntosh, Surtain, Wesley, Woods. Kept Wiegmann and T-Rich around another year. So winning 6 games with that geriatric cast would make you feel better than winning 2 and in the process not seeing what we had in guys like Pollard, Page, Flowers, Albert, and Carr? Those guys started WAY earlier than most coaches would allow because we committed to a youth movement

In 2009, he had 17 dudes. He had the #3 pick. He had $57M to spend. He set this team up nicely to make a big move in 2009. And sorry, but that shit doesn't happen if you keep applying band-aids. I don't know how that's at all acceptable. Again, his inability to coach is irrelevant. That's not something he left behind after he left. What matters is the state of the roster.

[BryanBusby]

I think the Herm era would of looked different if they rebuilt the team right away over trying to scrape out wins with the remants of the DV era for 2 years.

Herm can easily identify talent, but just has no idea what a good offense entails of.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Haha, no he didn't. He had an eye for talent, but he ****ing buried this team in futility. No free agents wanted to come play for him and his shit coaching philosophies, that was as much of a reason why Pissant Pioli had so much cap to use as Herm's "brilliant maneuvering" was.

Are you related to Herm or something? An old neighbor of his?

What? Where are you getting this "no free agents wanted to play" bullshit? That is completely made up. I haven't seen anything like that anywhere. We had expensive geriatric free agents on the roster. Herm cut a bunch of them. And he committed to starting Albert over McIntosh. Carr / Flowers over Surtain. Pollard / Page over Wesley / Woods. It wasn't "brilliant." But it was a ballsy move to commit to a youth movement. And it was absolutely the right call.

I have long been Herm's biggest defender even though I never wanted him to stay as the coach. Because there has never been a man more hated on CP than him. And the over-the-topness of all the hate is completely irrational.

[Bowser]

It is NOT irrational, you just defend him because of silly reasons that make sense to you. He sent this team into a nosedive that they are JUST NOW recovering from (2010 doesn't count as it was a complete mirage).

[FloridaMan88]

In addition to the Dorsey bust, don't forget the other pieces of Herm's defensive line of the future… Turk McBride and Tank Tyler.

Turk was out of the NFL in 2012 and Tank was out of the NFL in 2009.

Herm's defensive line of the future.

[Bowser]

Now, I will hand it to him for sticking with the young guys, but that wasn't a hard decision as the vets at the time sucked.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

I think the Herm era would of looked different if they rebuilt the team right away over trying to scrape out wins with the remants of the DV era for 2 years.

Herm can easily identify talent, but just has no idea what a good offense entails of.

I agree, though Herm was definitely pushing for the rebuild by year 2. He insisted on Croyle starting while Peterson pushed Huard down his throat.

I also believe the era would have looked much different if Herm was given one more year. I'm glad he didn't, because I knew he wasn't a coach that could take us deep into the playoffs. But with the roster he had in 2009 + #3 pick in the draft + $57M in cap space + a much better offensive system under Gailey, the team had a good chance of at least being respectable in 2009.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Bowser

Now, I will hand it to him for sticking with the young guys, but that wasn't a hard decision as the vets at the time sucked.

From everything we've heard in the media, Herm went over Peterson's head to do it. And he somehow managed to make Peterson completely irrelevant in 2008. It was a really bold move and he still takes a reputational hit for doing it. But it was absolutely the right move even if it led to a few immediate losses.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Bowser

It is NOT irrational, you just defend him because of silly reasons that make sense to you. He sent this team into a nosedive that they are JUST NOW recovering from (2010 doesn't count as it was a complete mirage).

No. I defend him from ridiculous statements like this. This team wasn't in a nosedive. We went from cap hell to $57M cap space (before cutting Gonzalez). We went from the oldest roster in football to the youngest, including 10 core players who could play for 10 years.

If you take the roster Herm left behind. Have a reasonably effective 2009 draft. Effectively use the $57M in cap space. Keep Gonzalez. Bring in a decent QB. And hire a decent head coach / OC / DC. That team could have been excellent by 2009.

The team spiraled backwards because Pioli squandered the $57M. And then completely mismanaged the team after that. Including forcing a 3-4, which set us back a few years.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

17 dudes. 10 or so of them excellent football players
-They spent almost no money to do that. In doing so they cleared up $57 million dollars in cap space in 2009. $57M. You do realize that's enough money to buy you 5 more superstars, right?
-They relied almost exclusively on draft picks. 2 out of 3 years they were picking in the 20's
-So you're advocating saving a few wins here and there? They could have started Huard, McIntosh, Surtain, Wesley, Woods. Kept Wiegmann and T-Rich around another year. So winning 6 games with that geriatric cast would make you feel better than winning 2 and in the process not seeing what we had in guys like Pollard, Page, Flowers, Albert, and Carr? Those guys started WAY earlier than most coaches would allow because we committed to a youth movement

In 2009, he had 17 dudes. He had the #3 pick. He had $57M to spend. He set this team up nicely to make a big move in 2009. And sorry, but that shit doesn't happen if you keep applying band-aids. I don't know how that's at all acceptable. Again, his inability to coach is irrelevant. That's not something he left behind after he left. What matters is the state of the roster.

Still can't quit Herm huh?

I can go point by point with you.

1.) Lets start with your 10 excellent dudes. They are:
Charles
Bowe
Gonzo - Squirm had nothing to do with this.
Albert
Waters - Squirm had nothing to do with this.
Hali
Carr
Flowers
DJ - Squirm had nothing to do with this
Colquit - Squirm had nothing to do with this.

So Squrmin Herman mother****ing sack of **** Edwards found 6 guys are long term guys and 17 that deserve a roster spot. In three years. In the draft and FA. That is truly horrific. I'm not going to do the math, but if he turned over 49 positions in 3 years and hit on MOTHER****ING 13 (your 17 less DV's 4) and leaving 17 total of players, that is 34% of the positions filled with someone that is not a shitstain. That is a ****ing joke of "roster building." That is why the team was ****ing horrible and won 2 games. If you're going to give all personnel credit to Herm, you gotta admit that in 3 whole years of control he managed to find 1/3 of a team. In 10 years we could have been competitive. Except the first 1/3 would have been old as **** by then YAY HERM! Jesus ****ing Christ.

2.) If he had all that money to spend, why the **** didn't he try to go get somebody in 08 when after 4-12, you have to know there is some heat headed your way. Go get one guy that can help you win. Hell, sell out on getting a decent QB. Get good QB play save your job. Why didn't he? Because he couldn't get one. Why? Horrible.

3.) ****ing horseshit. He had 21 picks and turned over 49 spots. He brought in a shitton of FA. Granted, he didn't spend any money doing it, but he brought a ****ton of them in. Listen, because this is important....

THIS IS WHERE GOOD TEAMS ARE MADE. Good teams have 2 things - 1. QB. 2. Production from cheap players. Look at all the teams that are consistently good. They get production from cheap players. That's how Seattle won. That's how Pitt won. That's how NE won. It doesn't matter where they come from, but there is a cap. You have to get more productivity per dollar than they other guy. Herm did nothing of this. And this is where teams are truly built. In the cheap contracts. Herm Blew that shit hard.

3. I'm not advocating shit. I didn't propose any plan here. What I do know is that you don't have to go ****ing 2-14 to turn shit around. The only team that has done it is Indy. Teams that win 2 games aren't good. They win 2 games because there is no talent. Not because they've been built by some ****ing master. Seattle, San Fran, Arizona, New Orleans have all been turned around without taking a mediocre team and making it horrible. Teams that win 2 games 3 years into a rebuild do so because there is not enough talent to field a team. Which is a ****ing joke. We weren't rebuilding, we were ****ing horrible and it was under Herm's watch.

Nevermind the biggest ****ing hole in your whole argument. You readily admit that he was a horrid coach. That was his ****ing job, man.

The general responsibilities of a HC are pretty much:
1. Hire good staff - HORRIBLE
2. Team demeanor - HORRIBLE - His teams quit 2 straight years.
3. Team discipline/execution - HORRIBLE - Stupid penalties, can't run basic plays
4. Work with staff/gametime calls - HORRIBLE Games were a ****ing joke.
5. Work with personnel department - HORRIBLE but somehow you're saying that 6 dudes that are good mean that he didn't wreck the ****ing program. What a ****ing joke.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I agree, though Herm was definitely pushing for the rebuild by year 2. He insisted on Croyle starting while Peterson pushed Huard down his throat.

I also believe the era would have looked much different if Herm was given one more year. I'm glad he didn't, because I knew he wasn't a coach that could take us deep into the playoffs. But with the roster he had in 2009 + #3 pick in the draft + $57M in cap space + a much better offensive system under Gailey, the team had a good chance of at least being respectable in 2009.

Better system? He had Thigpen running gimmicks and a zone read.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

No. I defend him from ridiculous statements like this. This team wasn't in a nosedive. We went from cap hell to $57M cap space (before cutting Gonzalez). We went from the oldest roster in football to the youngest, including 10 core players who could play for 10 years.

If you take the roster Herm left behind. Have a reasonably effective 2009 draft. Effectively use the $57M in cap space. Keep Gonzalez. Bring in a decent QB. And hire a decent head coach / OC / DC. That team could have been excellent by 2009.

The team spiraled backwards because Pioli squandered the $57M. And then completely mismanaged the team after that. Including forcing a 3-4, which set us back a few years.

Pioli did indeed fist**** the franchise. But it's not like he was given the keys to a ferrari. There were 17 mother****ers that deserved a roster spot. That's not starters, that's roster spots. And Herm had 3 years to come up with good players and he brought to the table 13 that weren't a ****ing joke. That is horrible, man. Really horrible.

[Buehler445]

Oh, and it should be noted that 14 losses was a franchise record. BUT DON'T HATE HERM. He found 6 guys that are above average. Nobody on the face of the planet could have ever achieved such a feat.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

But with the roster he had in 2009 + #3 pick in the draft + $57M in cap space + a much better offensive system under Gailey, the team had a good chance of at least being respectable in 2009.

Yep another season of a Croyle/Thigpen QB situation= fail.

Another season of Herm's defensive line of the future = Dorsey, Tank, and Turk= fail.

Your cult-like admiration of Herm is clouding your judgement obviously.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Yep another season of a Croyle/Thigpen QB situation= fail.

Another season of Herm's defensive line of the future = Dorsey, Tank, and Turk= fail.

Your cult-like admiration of Herm is clouding your judgement obviously.

By 2009 he would have had 22.6 players that were worth a roster spot. That's almost an offense and a defense. We still would have lost in grand fashion, because 3 of those starters are K,P,LS and Herm was still coaching.