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Old 11-17-2018, 09:40 PM   #1
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Then it's settled. It's an unsubstantiated, and almost assuredly false, innuendo.


It's pretty un-American to go after a man's character. I'm guessing his job tactics have a lot of room to criticize, but there isn't one among us who'd like our character being attacked. Esp without proof.

It’s not attacking his character to point out fact A:

Matheny hosted a bible study group with his players

Fact b:
Matheny was overly loyal to many of his veterans, playing them despite horrible performance levels, usually at the expense of talented young players

Fact c:
Those vets were know to be members of the Bible study group.

Now, maybe it’s just a coincidence. Draw what conclusions you want from that cluster.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:16 AM   #2
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It's absolutely an attack on his character to suggest he's throwing games. That's what you're doing to Matheny if you make this charge: he intentionally lost games by playing inferior players. That's the cardinal sin of sport.

"Draw your own conclusions" is shorthand for: "I can't prove something"
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:21 AM   #3
Al Bundy Al Bundy is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It's absolutely an attack on his character to suggest he's throwing games. That's what you're doing to Matheny if you make this charge: he intentionally lost games by playing inferior players. That's the cardinal sin of sport.

"Draw your own conclusions" is shorthand for: "I can't prove something"
So the record after he was rightly fired is meaningless?
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Old 11-19-2018, 11:17 AM   #4
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So the record after he was rightly fired is meaningless?
Derp.

No, the 12-15 record in Sept isn't meaningless. The Cards weren't a playoff contender with or without Matheny. But here's the good news: now they have to win the division to justify his firing. No more Bible Study = playoffs.


If not, then we will find out Bible Study wasn't the problem.
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:25 AM   #5
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
It's absolutely an attack on his character to suggest he's throwing games. That's what you're doing to Matheny if you make this charge: he intentionally lost games by playing inferior players. That's the cardinal sin of sport.

"Draw your own conclusions" is shorthand for: "I can't prove something"

Every manager who makes bad strategic decisions is not trying to throw games. That’s a big leap from just making dumb choices out of misplaced loyalty.

Go check the Cards thread. General consensus there is that Matheny was definitely overly loyal to underperforming players who were part of his bible study club.

I can’t PROVE it. I’m not Mike Matheny. I’m not one of the players in the clubhouse. I don’t cover the team.

But I don’t need to prove it. Just sharing conjecture.

The reason he was too loyal to underperforming players doesn’t matter, anyway. Just that he was.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:09 PM   #6
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Go check the Cards thread. General consensus there is that Matheny was definitely overly loyal to underperforming players who were part of his bible study club.
But I didn't ask you what reeruns on a chat board once heard. Simply what evidence there was for it. And "Everyone knows that...." or "It is common knowledge" do not qualify.

Quote:
I can’t PROVE it. I’m not Mike Matheny. I’m not one of the players in the clubhouse.
That's really all there is to this nonstory: the alleged perp hasn't even been accused, nor has he even been asked about it.


Quote:
I don’t cover the team.
There's no evidence on that front either. Deez mentioned some writer named "Strauss". I googled Strauss-Matheny and the first story that pops up? "Matheny Should Win Manager of the Year" (2015). Conclusion: his Bible Studies were working awesome back then.


Quote:
But I don’t need to prove it. Just sharing conjecture.
You're right. I have higher standards for you and Pants than the BFIBs.


Quote:
The reason he was too loyal to underperforming players doesn’t matter, anyway. Just that he was.
You don't believe that. Discriminating in race or religion is something we have Fed laws against. People don't like it. And we should be judicious accusing people of it too.
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Old 11-19-2018, 06:42 PM   #7
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I haven't seen PB take a contrarian position like this in a long time.

It makes me long for 2013-2014. Good times.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:12 PM   #8
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I don't know about bible studies but is there any question Matheny lost the clubhouse? I think that's pretty widely accepted. How many times have the Cardinals sacked a manager midseason? Dude had multiple playoff appearances and a winning record this year and they still fired him. That's the most un-Cardinals like move you could think of. And the only thing he said in response to the buzz around the clubhouse was that the game had gotten too soft.
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Old 11-23-2018, 01:30 PM   #9
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I don't know about bible studies but is there any question Matheny lost the clubhouse? I think that's pretty widely accepted. How many times have the Cardinals sacked a manager midseason? Dude had multiple playoff appearances and a winning record this year and they still fired him. That's the most un-Cardinals like move you could think of. And the only thing he said in response to the buzz around the clubhouse was that the game had gotten too soft.
Why are you guys questioning the Bible study stories? It wasn’t a secret. Players talked about it openly to the press. They held meetings in the clubhouse. There is no debate. It happened and was still happening when he was fired. Just google it for crissakes.
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Old 11-23-2018, 02:30 PM   #10
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Why are you guys questioning the Bible study stories? It wasn’t a secret. Players talked about it openly to the press. They held meetings in the clubhouse. There is no debate. It happened and was still happening when he was fired. Just google it for crissakes.
To be fair, only one person has been questioning the bible study stories.
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Old 11-23-2018, 03:29 PM   #11
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To be fair, only one person has been questioning the bible study stories.
And that person hasn't been seen around here in awhile.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:45 AM   #12
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:18 PM   #13
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Old 11-23-2018, 10:19 PM   #14
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The ****? How.... why....

How much do you have to suck at your job before you don't get hired again?
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Old 11-21-2018, 07:43 PM   #15
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Looks like PB should have a look in the Cardinals thread.
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