Post here if you were an idiot who thought we needed to run the ball more.

[Hammock Parties]

Particularly if you believed it needed to be done out of power formations

No, the Chiefs needed to execute the passing game. And they finally did. They fought their way out of it.

And now we are going to skull**** everyone with our goddamn elite QB.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

And I do think it would behoove us to run the ball a little more

God damn.

Where is Pete so you guys can have a buttsex orgy with Creed and Darrel?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

And I do think it would behoove us to run the ball a little more than almost 3-to-1 because we have a line that's built to do it; but I don't like running Williams outside. He doesn't have the speed for that.

Not just for play-action, but to pull those safeties up some and open up some more downfield shots.

Here's the thing though, nothing the Chiefs do in the run game is going to pull up the safeties. I know that's the normal mantra, but teams are just to afraid of last night happening that they're just content to sit back and die slow.

[DJ's left nut]

Yeah, the Raiders were pretty hard-headed.

They were still playing a lot of Cover 3 (the original "Mahomes Killer") and there's a that cover 3 can do to mess up those deep passes as well. But they were playing a cover 3 with Jonathan Abram who...sucks.

That said, the confidence that Mahomes was playing with last night was completely unlike anything we've seen out of him since the Ravens game. He was back to his old self.

So while the Raiders defense in some ways made things easier, the Titans defense wasn't exactly playing well out there, Mahomes was just missing. He was in a slump. He appears on his way to pulling out of it.

No, the answer is not running the ball 30 times a game. The Chiefs used the passing game to establish a lead and then took the air out of the ball late. They worked the underneath routes (those short crossers finally came back out again) to draw the safeties down and made the Raiders pay anytime the tried to cheat on them.

They handed the ball to the RB 20 times on the day (for the record, FAR too many of those were off tackle right on 1st down), 8 of those came after they'd established a double digit lead late in the 3rd and into the 4th.

It was EXACTLY how they need to operate moving forward. They're not a power running team with an elite quarterback. They shouldn't try to be. They're an elite passing offense with the ability to use their interior line to win situational reps. Their quarterback hit the first slump of his career and battled his way out the other side.

This is what they do and this is what they should be. Anyone trying to claim some level of vindication for a gameplan that featured 20 handoffs and 5 touchdown passes as proof that running the football was how the Chiefs needed to win simply wasn't paying attention.

[ThyKingdomCome15]

Lol, establishing the running game set up a number of those big pass play's. We even ran some RPO's and the D actually bit on the fake. So if you wanted to run more, you were right. If you wanted to pass more, you were also right. It takes a balanced attack to keep the defense honest. So don't knock the running game.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Here's the thing though, nothing the Chiefs do in the run game is going to pull up the safeties. I know that's the normal mantra, but teams are just to afraid of last night happening that they're just content to sit back and die slow.

Correct.

The Raiders didn't come up because they were afraid of the run. They came up because Hardman and Hill were beating them on crossers and Kelce was abusing them underneath.

And frankly, they still didn't come up that much or that often - Abrams is just awful.

This isn't a team that 'conventional wisdom' will work well in analyzing. And ultimately that's a very very good thing.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ThyKingdomCome15

Lol, establishing the running game set up a number of those big pass play's. We even ran some RPO's and the D actually bit on the fake. So if you wanted to run more, you were right. If you wanted to pass more, you were also right. It takes a balanced attack to keep the defense honest. So don't knock the running game.

This simply isn't correct.

Running the ball 15 times/gm has almost an identical impact on the PA passing game as running it 30 times. The study from Marcellus demonstrates it pretty clearly but there have been literally dozens of them in the past few years.

It takes very VERY little focus on the running game to 'set up' big pass plays. And despite all the hand-wringing, the Chiefs have routinely run the ball the 20-25 times/gm they ran it last night.

There is a threshold level you have to run it for the play action game to be impacted - it's something along the lines of 12-15 times/gm. And the returns diminish significantly once you hit that threshold level.

You do not 'establish the run' to set up the pass in this league. Haven't in over a decade.

[Sassy Squatch]

I'd really like to know who the stubborn ****er was that kept calling edge runs to the right. Jesus Christ that was starting to get infuriating.

[Sassy Squatch]

Also wonder if Pat was on Cocaine last night. Dude was ****ing wired in compared to this last month of shit. Don't remember much if at all of those plays where he just holds the ball then does something really stupid in panic/desperation. Quick, accurate, and decisive.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I don't think that study says exactly what you think it says, and it partially proves my point-success running the ball doesn't really matter all that much in relation to play-action passing. But you still have to do it some. You have to make the defense honor that fact that you MIGHT run the ball.

The study shows that teams that rarely ran the ball ( not at all in the previous 8-10 plays) were less successful in play-action passing.

So the 'never run the ball ever, just throw' crowd are missing the point too.

What that study is looking at is how effective running games are in relation to play-action passing, and how much do you have to run? The answers are: you don't have to be great at it, but you do have to do it enough to be a threat to do it.

That's totally in line with what I've been saying. Other people may have been wanting to go full on Barry Word style Martyball, but that's not me, unless you're talking about eating clock late in the game sitting on a large lead.

The main takeaway from the article is that neither frequency of running the ball nor effectiveness impact PA passing success which is absolutely what you claimed earlier. Its simply not true.

KC has had the most prolific offense in football for 3+ years while running it around 25-30% of the time.

The idea this needs to change is insane.

[St. Patty's Fire]

Still wanna start slowly working in more power run game concepts into the offense instead of running outside zone with offensive lineman who are objectively a better fit for a power run game. Acting like power formations would neuter the offense’s ability is silly, but up Clays alley.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by St. Patty's Fire

Acting like power formations would neuter the offense’s ability is silly, but up Clays alley.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW OUR YPC UNDER CENTER?

[Sassy Squatch]

If Mahomes and Gray continue to gel nicely then PA out of 12 personnel will be ****ing deadly. Teams will get taped for stacking the box when Mahomes goes under center.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

The main takeaway from the article is that neither frequency of running the ball nor effectiveness impact PA passing success which is absolutely what you claimed earlier. Its simply not true.

KC has had the most prolific offense in football for 3+ years while running it around 25-30% of the time.

The idea this needs to change is insane.

I would've hoped beating Wallcrawler and the rest of the crew over the head with this 2 years ago would've had some effect. Evidently not.

It's really not open for discussion to anyone that's bothered to dig into it. There may be some unique team by team examples where there could be some larger, more direct relationship, but the Chiefs and their mediocre RBs and damn effective pass-catchers most assuredly wouldn't be one of them.

This team is NOT going to scare teams into cheating run. They'll continue to run enough to get that same hesitancy over 15 carries that they'd get over 30 and they'll continue to use the underneath passing game to set up the deep passing game. Why? Because Andy Reid is smart and it's the smart thing to do.

Oh, and for the 'why weren't we throwing underneath the last 5 weeks?!?!?' crowd - please go look at Mahomes passing charts via nextgen stats. We were.

He was slumping guys, he was missing shots, clutching and hesitating on makeable windows and feeling phantom pressure. That's all there is to this.

Keep firing, Patrick. Go be you - the baddest mother****er on the planet.

[Sassy Squatch]

Also helps a bunch when Hardman, Pringle, and Robinson do their jobs competently without the dumb shit that led to us turning the ball over 19 times total.

[Hammock Parties]

rUn ThE bALl

3 3:38 3-2 LVR 49 Patrick Mahomes pass complete deep left to Tyreek Hill for 32 yards

4 9:09 3-2 KAN 45 Patrick Mahomes pass complete short middle to Travis Kelce for 30 yards

62 yards on two plays that led to touchdowns where Chief fan wanted buttsex