**Official Royals vs. Phillies 4/7 Gamethread** AKA Vengeance Game

[CaliforniaChief]

Alrighty, we took our first heartbreaker last night.

The Phillies walked their way to a walk-off. Time to brush it off, forget about it, win this God-forsaken series, and go home with a .500 road trip.

Time for Big Game James to earn that name and outduel Hamels.

Let's. Do. This.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just want to poke my head in shortly to show you guys something.

Greg Holland doesn't suck. He just doesn't. He has among the better sliders in baseball and mid-90s gas. Sometimes he loses the zone...so does virtually every reliever. He's probably not elite but he does not suck.

However, Holland's suck/not suck is irrelevant to the discussion of who should be the closer on the Royals. Take a look at this:

1


2



3



Anyone have a quick guess as to what those pitches were? Those weren't screwballs, they weren't sinkers. They were changeups with the kind of armside run you just don't see from changeups. That's a 2-seamer break on a changeup. The 2nd one is especially vile.

Now look at those 3 pictures more closely, notably, look at the count. Anyone notice anything?

He threw those back to back to back. He pitched backwards off his change, threw it 3 times in a row and the damn pitch was so good that Saltalamaccia still looked like an idiot on the 3rd one, even with 2 prior looks at it.

Oh, and Herrera's fastball is possibly the best in baseball (I like Rosenthal's a little more, but there's certainly room for debate).

Guys, Kelvin Herrera could be the best reliever in the major leagues. I know, Holland's a good pitcher and you'd hate to cut his legs out from under him this quickly, but Herrera has stuff that you just don't see very often and if you're struggling in the 9th, the answer is easy, IMO.

ChiefsPlanet hates FanGraphs GIFs, apparently.

I love Herrera's stuff and potential. I think he's better than Holland, but I don't think there's a very big gap.

I actually like the idea of using your best reliever like Herrera and your next-best guy as the closer, but if Holland doesn't find some consistency and the strike zone, you have to make the switch.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

ChiefsPlanet hates FanGraphs GIFs, apparently.

I love Herrera's stuff and potential. I think he's better than Holland, but I don't think there's a very big gap.

I actually like the idea of using your best reliever like Herrera and your next-best guy as the closer, but if Holland doesn't find some consistency and the strike zone, you have to make the switch.

Well hell, those were working when I first posted them, now they're not.

Give it a minute, maybe they'll come back. They're goddamn works of art.

If not, here's the link:

http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.p...eras-changeup/

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by JASONSAUTO

Just need someone to settle down in the ninth. The rest has been awesome minus one hoch showing
Posted via Mobile Device

Agree...

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

He's getting that kind of action on a 4-seamer?

I've never heard anything about him throwing or experimenting with a two seamer. But it seems like he's been getting some arm side run from his fastball, whatever he's throwing.

Don't remember that in the past.

[lewdog]

Originally Posted by lewdog

I don't have a deep baseball knowledge,

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Well this explains a lot. But I do and have played it at a fairly high level as a pitcher(starter not a closer). Baseball is such a mental game and especially with pitchers. You know immediately after the first 5-10 pitches(with closers only) whether they 'have it' or not. And when they don't have it you get them out especially with a 2 run lead in the 9th with no outs especially after walking the first 2 even if your remaining options are not as good because anyone else who can at least get the ball across the plate will make the opponent earn their win as opposed to being given the win is all I'm saying.

I mean compared to a few on this board (i.e., Duncan Idaho, al north). My knowledge is heads and above more than yours as obvious by today's posting from you.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I think you see Holland get one more shot, As Montgomery was saying, he has to throw strikes with his fastball to set up his secondary pitches. The slider and splitter are his best pitches, and guys don't chase those when you aren't throwing strikes with the fastball.

Some uncomfortable flaps today, but I'm still not worried about this pen. Too much talent to do that.

There are at least 25 teams around the major leagues that would gladly swap bullpen personnel on the spot with the Royals. The Nationals and Braves being the only obvious exceptions I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe the Reds, though their pen is not that intimidating after Chapman.

Nope, if I am the coach I delay his next outing at this point, to potentially not ruin his psyche for the season. And this may have already happened as of yesterday by what we saw today. Hopefully not. I get his head right by showing him mechanically what happens when he 'presses' too much because this is ALL in his head.

Too many talented pitchers fail whether starters or closers because they believe it's all up to them, forgetting about their great teammates/defense behind them. You ask any great closer what was their secret in being mentally tough and pitching great in the last innings and most will tell you "because I knew I could relax knowing I had a great defense behind me that had great confidence in me. "They didn't expect me to be perfect and I knew I couldn't be perfect and knowing this allowed me to relax and pitch almost 'perfectly'.

Good lesson for life as well.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by SPchief

**** YEAH

72

[MeatRock]

Holland is getting that drift action on his 4 seamer. Herrera's change up is pure unhittable filth. WOW

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I don't know how many would have the guts to pull their guy the way he did today, though.

You make my point. By Yost pulling him today admitted indirectly that he F'd up yesterday and left him in 'EMBARRASSINGLY' too long. 3 consecutive walks to load the bases with a 2 run lead with no outs in the bottom of the 9th? And you still leave him in only to lose the game? What did you expect ? That's a perfect formula for losing a game. That's embarrassing because it makes it look like you don't know when to take a pitcher out and you trying to make the 30/30 argument because there were no other options ? Hell at least make your opponent earn it by at least putting someone in that can get it over the plate.

[DeezNutz]

If Holland is so mentally fragile as to be crushed by what has happened in the last two days, he was a waste of a roster spot in the first place.

He's fine. FFS. Shit like this happens in baseball.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

You make my point. By Yost pulling him today admitted indirectly that he F'd up yesterday and left him in 'EMBARRASSINGLY' too long. 3 consecutive walks to load the bases with a 2 run lead with no outs in the bottom of the 9th? And you still leave him in only to lose the game? What did you expect ? That's a perfect formula for losing a game. That's embarrassing because it makes it look like you don't know when to take a pitcher out and you trying to make the 30/30 argument because there were no other options ? Hell at least make your opponent earn it by at least putting someone in that can get it over the plate.

No. I don't make your point at all. You don't yank a guy you NEED to have a successful season the first time he runs into trouble. Especially when you have no one available who's a better option for the situation at hand. Pulling Holland today was a desperation move that luckily worked out for Yost (if it hadn't, there would be calls for his head - just like there would have been yesterday if he had put in Gutierrez or Chen and lost the game).

Oh, and BTW... I've spoken to a lot of people who think they know much more about baseball than they actually do. The worst I'd run into was an intern during my time at Sporting News*, who was convinced that So Taguchi could be an MLB all-star if given everyday at-bats. Well, until I started talking to you today.

*when I was the editor for Todd Jones' and Ken Rosenthal's columns, edited the (in)famous Sporting News team notes for baseball, was a member of the panel/team that directed our baseball coverage, co-authored several books, and wrote a bi-weekly blog for the website.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

If Holland is so mentally fragile as to be crushed by what has happened in the last two days, he was a waste of a roster spot in the first place.

He's fine. FFS. Shit like this happens in baseball.

Holland had a slow start in April last year as well and I think his velo is not up to his mid-year form, yet. I also think he will be fine.

[BlackHelicopters]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No. I don't make your point at all. You don't yank a guy you NEED to have a successful season the first time he runs into trouble. Especially when you have no one available who's a better option for the situation at hand. Pulling Holland today was a desperation move that luckily worked out for Yost (if it hadn't, there would be calls for his head - just like there would have been yesterday if he had put in Gutierrez or Chen and lost the game).

Oh, and BTW... I've spoken to a lot of people who think they know much more about baseball than they actually do. The worst I'd run into was an intern during my time at Sporting News*, who was convinced that So Taguchi could be an MLB all-star if given everyday at-bats. Well, until I started talking to you today.

*when I was the editor for Todd Jones' and Ken Rosenthal's columns, edited the (in)famous Sporting News team notes for baseball, was a member of the panel/team that directed our baseball coverage, co-authored several books, and wrote a bi-weekly blog for the website.

[Mama Hip Rockets]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

No. I don't make your point at all. You don't yank a guy you NEED to have a successful season the first time he runs into trouble. Especially when you have no one available who's a better option for the situation at hand. Pulling Holland today was a desperation move that luckily worked out for Yost (if it hadn't, there would be calls for his head - just like there would have been yesterday if he had put in Gutierrez or Chen and lost the game).

Oh, and BTW... I've spoken to a lot of people who think they know much more about baseball than they actually do. The worst I'd run into was an intern during my time at Sporting News*, who was convinced that So Taguchi could be an MLB all-star if given everyday at-bats. Well, until I started talking to you today.

*when I was the editor for Todd Jones' and Ken Rosenthal's columns, edited the (in)famous Sporting News team notes for baseball, was a member of the panel/team that directed our baseball coverage, co-authored several books, and wrote a bi-weekly blog for the website.

So Taguchi is awesome, dude!

[Mr. Laz]

I think the Royals should forfeit the game for breaking the rules.