Should the Patteeu Memorial Political Forum be permanently closed?

[TLO]

A good clean fun thread for a hot June day.

Please vote and discuss.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I wouldn't even care if it was forever right-dominated if a good portion of the bullshit went away. There could be 5 intelligent people who leaned to the left in whatever extreme and 50 intelligent people who leaned to the right... and IMO that would still work if the entire point was something more than trying to "win" or just be shitty to each other.

There's so much blame to go around these days when it comes to politics, but the vast majority of people in that forum completely ignore their side's part of the blame (and let's not kid ourselves, if it's not 50/50 it's probably pretty damn close).

And beyond all of the personal attacks and petty bullshit, that's really what makes so many of those discussions look so reeruned to an outsider.

It would be like if you lived on the north side of Chicago and as an outsider went south a ways to where it's basically Fallujah, and you encountered two of the worst gangs in Chicago that combined accounted for a huge portion of murders and violence and so forth.... and you found they were bickering at each other like one side was vastly superior and the other was a complete dumpster fire causing all the problems. Stones in glass houses and so forth.

That's DC in a nutshell.

Thing is, and I've thought long and hard on it, you can only control, really, how you comport yourself. And I strive to comport myself in opposition to the things you complain about here, and I strive to remind them constantly that just because I disagree doesn't mean I hate. That's why I discuss, to assert my perspective and hope to persuade, and if not at least offer a reasoned defense of said perspective available for other more solicitous ears.

And I get the pretty clear and resonant message that they don't like that approach and more than the full adversarial approach, . . . indeed many search for malignant motives, asserting 'you're just saying that to 'sound' reasonable.' As if that's a critique.

EDIT - confounding this dynamic is this relatively new strain of anxiety reduction where many take strength from assertion of marginalization. Where they allege the hatred coming their way as a mechanism to bolster their valiance. . . When this confounds the discourse, there is no amount of reassuring people that you don't hate them, because their sense of your hate is fundamental to their identity.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

I am left leaning and I have posted in DC from the beginning. It has never been "accommodating" to left leaning people and we have always been out numbered. Go back and read the threads on the Iraq War and see how that went, massive pile ons on Jaz and mymyselfI (Denise) and others.

It's become an affirming echo chamber. Which is what they want or it wouldn't be that way. It's a choice.

I think politics being debated on social media is worthless these days. Both sides have legitimate points and concerns, The extremes on both sides just won't let civilized conversations take place to find common ground. It's affected everything in our real lives. I know of many people that have lost friends over political debates.

I have many "right wing" real life social media and Planet friends that are right wing as right wing gets. I've met many from here in person that hold totally different political opinions than myself. We have always got along. We love the Chiefs, cars, BBQ etc. We have a lot in common outside of politics. I'd think my experience isn't unique to other Planet members.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

FFS, I might boot you though.


And that's kind of TiC, but seriously... you put it on other people to disprove tripe on youtube when there is no proof of their dumb claims, then literally ask if he just believes anything he reads without proof.

I hope you're trying to troll.

So what? People have made unsubstantiated claims on every form of media since the dawn of time. You're saying it's ban-worthy if the person with the ban hammer disagrees?

Why should someone feel the need to "prove" every theory or opinion? Should Brian Williams be banned from his platform for trying to pass unsubstantiated Russian conspiracy theories as fact to a national audience? That's a hell of a lot worse than Joe Blow passing along a theory on a sports forum.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

Seeing complaints about DC being right-dominant is funny.

Hmmm....I wonder what's going to happen when leftist mods ban all the righties from the Lounge Covid thread (and others). The leftists still have their little echo chamber, while the right has only one place to go.

So tired of every issue being shoved into the "right" or "left" category anyway. It's pathetic that people are so easily suckered into the left-right paradigm. Take the vaccines for example. A personal health decision should never be turned into a political issue, but here we are. If you're in any way skeptical of the vaccine, you're branded a righty extremist. Unless, of course, you were skeptical of it while Trump was in office. Then you were a rational leftist.

****ing clown world.

What? You have an entire forum to yourself where you can post dozens of threads about whatever you want? “Leftists” have, what, 2 threads that are only there because the mods allowed it to stay with heavy moderation.

Dc thread isn’t dominantly right wing because everyone agrees with you. That’s self fulfilling prophecy. The board has diverse opinions. It is that way because outside opinions hate posting there. Either because their opinion isn’t welcome or they just see it as a shit show.

It’s not a statement that the mods want main forum to be leftist. It’s more a sad sign that the only way left of center posts are welcome in cp is with heavy moderation and special thread protection. But what about all the other topics? Any moderate or left of center person has maybe 2-3 pages to voice an opinion about everything from Marcus peters to a shooting in KC before the thread gets hijacked and sent to DC. You get to continue the discussion while the non DC crowd basically gets “censored”. It is so disappointing and all too frequent when a great right/left discussion is ruined because trolls hijack the thread a few pages in.

The engagement in the Covid and gas threads from people who don’t normally discuss social topics should be a clear sign that one side of the aisle doesn’t feel they can freely give their opinion on things. It’s strange you view that as the rule as opposed to the exception.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by DaFace

9/11 was an inside job
The election was stolen
Vaccines are Bill Gates' way of implanting microchips into everyone
The libs want to take away all of the guns
There's a giant coverup to hide people destroying the food supply chain

Just a few off the top of my head. Just look at about every other thread that TJ or BEP posts for more.

This is a strategic or psychological observation, that touches on politics, not a political observation, if that distinction can be observed and maintained. . . .

But, in many cases, this particular complaint of yours arises from a strain of passive-aggressive strategy from the left that some purposefully engage in and most are simply wrangled into by association.

It's the dynamic where there is a group of people engaged in discourse, and those complaining about something [say, taking all the guns, or eradicating private property, or effing around with technology and medicine] face a two-front battle, . . . where half are arguing 'no one is saying that' and the OTHER half are gloating 'heck yes we are, and you can't stop it.'

That's the conundrum. Do you grant those asserting that 'no one is saying that' the indulgence that they are simply blind to the more rowdy and assertive cohort, or do you eventually start to conclude that their blindness is pretense? Because you see what you see, but you can't know for certain what other people actually see, particularly in an adversarial and tactical engagement.

[ChiefsCountry]

A forum based on a sports team with its major fan base in states of Missouri, Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska is going to lean right politically. It's not an echo chamber when its the views of the majority of the population in the region.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It's become an affirming echo chamber. Which is what they want or it wouldn't be that way. It's a choice.

I think politics being debated on social media is worthless these days. Both sides have legitimate points and concerns, The extremes on both sides just won't let civilized conversations take place to find common ground. It's affected everything in our real lives. I know of many people that have lost friends over political debates.

I have many "right wing" real life social media and Planet friends that are right wing as right wing gets. I've met many from here in person that hold totally different political opinions than myself. We have always got along. We love the Chiefs, cars, BBQ etc. We have a lot in common outside of politics. I'd think my experience isn't unique to other Planet members.

Perhaps you should post in a more persuasive manner. I mean, more persuasive than spamming the sub with racy pics of Trump's wife? Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the pics. She's hot. But don't pretend that you haven't played the part of the troll. Because it's what you want or it wouldn't be that way. Because it's a choice.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

What? You have an entire forum to yourself where you can post dozens of threads about whatever you want? “Leftists” have, what, 2 threads that are only there because the mods allowed it to stay with heavy moderation.

Dc thread isn’t dominantly right wing because everyone agrees with you. That’s self fulfilling prophecy. The board has diverse opinions. It is that way because outside opinions hate posting there. Either because their opinion isn’t welcome or they just see it as a shit show.

It’s not a statement that the mods want main forum to be leftist. It’s more a sad sign that the only way left of center posts are welcome in cp is with heavy moderation and special thread protection. But what about all the other topics? Any moderate or left of center person has maybe 2-3 pages to voice an opinion about everything from Marcus peters to a shooting in KC before the thread gets hijacked and sent to DC. You get to continue the discussion while the non DC crowd basically gets “censored”. It is so disappointing and all too frequent when a great right/left discussion is ruined because trolls hijack the thread a few pages in.

The engagement in the Covid and gas threads from people who don’t normally discuss social topics should be a clear sign that one side of the aisle doesn’t feel they can freely give their opinion on things. It’s strange you view that as the rule as opposed to the exception.

First of all, I don't categorize myself as "right." I lean left on plenty of issues. Which is why, again, I'm sick of these labels. Everybody has to be placed firmly on one side or the other. Why? Because they've been conditioned to, of course. But no one will take a step back and acknowledge this.

DC is ridiculed and avoided by many because it's associated with radical perspectives. That's all there is to it. And any radical perspective (or what is deemed a radical perspective by the masses) is labeled right-wing. Therefore, the leftists avoid what they consider to be a right-wing echo chamber.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

A forum based on a sports team with its major fan base in states of Missouri, Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska is going to lean right politically. It's not an echo chamber when its the views of the majority of the population in the region.

But DC doesn’t lean right. It IS right wing. And because the forum as a whole, prior to the Covid thread, banishes social discussion in the thread that means that the entire cp experience is right wing. It’s an echo chamber because there are people with different opinions who for many reasons aren’t posting them.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

A forum based on a sports team with its major fan base in states of Missouri, Kansas, Iowa and Nebraska is going to lean right politically. It's not an echo chamber when its the views of the majority of the population in the region.

In 2022, sure but its not long ago, 2008 for example, it was split down the middle. Considered a swing state.

Missouri was won by Republican nominee John McCain by 3,903 votes, out of 1,445,814 votes, a 0.13% margin of victory.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

First of all, I don't categorize myself as "right." I lean left on plenty of issues. Which is why, again, I'm sick of these labels. Everybody has to be placed firmly on one side or the other. Why? Because they've been conditioned to, of course. But no one will take a step back and acknowledge this.

DC is ridiculed and avoided by many because it's associated with radical perspectives. That's all there is to it. And any radical perspective (or what is deemed a radical perspective by the masses) is labeled right-wing. Therefore, the leftists avoid what they consider to be a right-wing echo chamber.

I consider the right wing umbrella to cover maga, tea party and traditional conservatives. Fair to say that doesn’t always follow a neat definition of right/left but it is very clearly under the republican tent. This is the tent that covers almost all of dc forum except for a few posters who don’t post about the chiefs

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It's become an affirming echo chamber. Which is what they want or it wouldn't be that way. It's a choice.

Is it really any different then back then? I mean sure there were more of us back then and I would say the split was 60-40 or 70-30 but there was still massive pile on's.

Now it is more like 98-2 and as I and others have suggested we need to rid the people that only post in DC and that would go along way in improving things IMVHO.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

So what? People have made unsubstantiated claims on every form of media since the dawn of time. You're saying it's ban-worthy if the person with the ban hammer disagrees?

Why should someone feel the need to "prove" every theory or opinion? Should Brian Williams be banned from his platform for trying to pass unsubstantiated Russian conspiracy theories as fact to a national audience? That's a hell of a lot worse than Joe Blow passing along a theory on a sports forum.

It's not the theory or opinion, it's the approach.

You can believe whatever the hell you want to believe... end of the day, while having some civil discourse on why you believe those things while stating why I may disagree might help us both gain perspective, you'll still go on believing what you believe and I'll go on believing what I believe.

But, if someone posts a youtube video from some random guy with a title in all caps that conveys panic and immediate danger, with an upload history that always conveys that same panic and immediate danger, it's not your responsibility to tell me what I need to believe while also telling me to disprove the random guy.

Zero people on this board, unless they were part of said cover-up, knows 9/11 was an inside job. Zero. People. So, WTF did/do people spend hours trying to convince me it was, then tell me to disprove something they don't even know occurred?

Just like that food shortage thread.... don't freakin' tell me to go disprove somebody's youtube video like I'm the irrational one. We actually have (basically) the same knowledge of the situation, yet those who have the opinion that it's all a conspiracy act like they're on higher ground and know something everyone else doesn't. It's bullshit.

Give me your facts, analyze any gaps in knowledge and tell me why you're bridging that gap with the opinion there's a conspiracy.... don't tell me to go disprove something that hasn't even been proven while assuming I'M the one who blindly goes along with an opinion.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

First of all, I don't categorize myself as "right." I lean left on plenty of issues. Which is why, again, I'm sick of these labels. Everybody has to be placed firmly on one side or the other. Why? Because they've been conditioned to, of course. But no one will take a step back and acknowledge this.

DC is ridiculed and avoided by many because it's associated with radical perspectives. That's all there is to it. And any radical perspective (or what is deemed a radical perspective by the masses) is labeled right-wing. Therefore, the leftists avoid what they consider to be a right-wing echo chamber.

Yeah, and sadly that's just the internet and people as a whole, which of course includes politics.

Same as the Alex Smith debates of years ago... eventually everyone was placed in either being in love with the guy and thinking he was a SB-caliber QB or you thought he was the worst Chiefs QB in the history of the franchise and probably smelled like old tomatoes and dirt.

And no matter how many times the 'slight lean from center' simply stated they liked him as a stop gap who might be successful in the right system, or didn't like him because he was only a stop gap who wouldn't be able to carry the team to a SB.... it made no difference.

So, while I think DC could use some cleaning up, you would still be faced with those types of challenges (which are at least easier to ignore on the often-debated topics), where people are simply terrible at debate.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by DaFace

9/11 was an inside job
The election was stolen
Vaccines are Bill Gates' way of implanting microchips into everyone
The libs want to take away all of the guns
There's a giant coverup to hide people destroying the food supply chain

Just a few off the top of my head. Just look at about every other thread that TJ or BEP posts for more.

I think it's pretty common for people who are biased in the other direction to place words in peoples' mouths to make their views seem more extreme. And suddenly the person is defending himself from a view that isn't even close to what he really believes. Then boom....banned.

For example, there are plenty of people who don't believe every detail of the official narrative of 9/11. And they're often automatically thrown into the "George W and every other gov't official plotted behind our backs!" category. Not buying every detail of the narrative doesn't equate to believing in a massive cover-up or inside job.

I also don't know how one can "prove" that every detail of the official 9/11 narrative is true, or that there was not election fraud.