The Death Penalty

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Demonpenz

We shouldn't kill to teach other people not to kill

We should all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

[Demonpenz]

Originally Posted by Lzen

We should all just hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

good song

[Iowanian]

Would you feel that 30 years was enough if it was say, your father who had stopped to help these assholes?

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Iowanian

Would you feel that 30 years was enough if it was say, your father who had stopped to help these assholes?

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to play this card.
You invoke my sentiments with this analogy...
And I think we all know that when an individual's feelings are involved they don't always make the most rational decisions.

If taking lives is wrong. It must be wrong across the board.

[WilliamTheIrish]

I tend to agree with Mic. I've sort of come full circle on this issue over the last 10 years. I'd rather the guy rotted in prison.

As an aside, if he is given the chair, I'm not going to shed a tear for him.

[Skip Towne]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

I tend to agree with Mic. I've sort of come full circle on this issue over the last 10 years. I'd rather the guy rotted in prison.

As an aside, if he is given the chair, I'm not going to shed a tear for him.

Remember Shannon Agofsky? The guy who robbed the Bank of Noel Mo? And murdered the banker? His life was spared and a couple of years later he killed a fellow inmate. He is now on death row where he should have been in the first place.

[Micjones]

Originally Posted by Skip Towne

Remember Shannon Agofsky? The guy who robbed the Bank of Noel Mo? And murdered the banker? His life was spared and a couple of years later he killed a fellow inmate. He is now on death row where he should have been in the first place.

The Justice System is flawed.
And innocent people have been put to death.
This can be argued both ways.

[RJ]

Originally Posted by WilliamTheIrish

I tend to agree with Mic. I've sort of come full circle on this issue over the last 10 years. I'd rather the guy rotted in prison.

As an aside, if he is given the chair, I'm not going to shed a tear for him.

I can see a good argument for abolishing the death penalty and if that ever happened I'd be ok with the decision. But having said that, as long as it exists this is the sort of case it exists for.

[Dartgod]

Originally Posted by RJ

I can see a good argument for abolishing the death penalty and if that ever happened I'd be ok with the decision. But having said that, as long as it exists this is the sort of case it exists for.

I'd like for Micjones to address this point.

The argument is not whether or not the death penalty should exist or not. There are certainly valid arguments for both sides of this issue and he isn't likely going to be swayed from his stance.

The real question is; given that The State of Missouri does employ the death penalty as a means of punishment, why should this guy's life be spared?

[PhillyChiefFan]

But three family's don't have a member of their families anymore. And we are going to put him up in prison and spend tax dollars on a man who killed 3 people. that is my point of view...by no means am I putting you down for your stance, this is a free country and you can believe what you want to believe.

I just look at it as, this man took 3 lives, destroyed 3 families...all for what? a broken down car and some drugs? There is no justification for what he did.

[Baby Lee]

I hope therman doesn't hold me responsible for the blowback. I objectively am, for posting the decision. But I consciously chose to post only the words of the Court of Appeals with no accompanying opinion of my own. I think that was a fair step using a credible source.

[Iowanian]

I guess I'll never be able to put a soldier who kills in defense of his country, a person who kills an intruder to defend his family, or the state for executing a murderer in equal position with a person that helps murder 4 people.

call me crazy, but I don't feel its the same thing.


Mic, I know many people(catholics) who strongly oppose the death penalty and abortion and hold similar opinions to yours on this topic. I respect the opinion, but I don't agree with it.

[Dartgod]

Mic - You are arguing two different points. I understand that you are against capital punishment. Many people are. In general, I am for the death penalty, although I think it should only be applied in extreme cases, where the evidence is overwhelming against the defendant.

This guy was guilty of participating in four murders, one of which took place in a state that uses the death penalty as a punishment for these types of crimes. From the evidence I have read, this guy deserves what he is getting. End of story.

[Rain Man]

I'm not sure your argument of new evidence holds water in this case, MicJones. New punishments or treatments, perhaps. But in essence this guy is guilty beyond any reasonable doubt, and what he's doing now is asking for mercy.

I think that reasonable arguments against the death penalty are:

1. General "life is sacred" mantra and it's somehow better to lock the guy in a dungeon than kill him.

2. Maybe we'll come up with some way to zap the guy's brain of the bad stuff and convert him into a productive citizen. (Still seems problematic to me that Charlie Manson can go get a job at Chik-Fil-A and not be traumatic for the victim's families, etc.)

3. Maybe the guy is innocent and new technologies or evidence will one day prove it.

#3 is a biggie for me. There are innocent people who have been executed, and that's horrific. Events of recent years have turned me against the death penalty in most cases for this reason. However, #3 doesn't apply in this case, and I'm not a huge supporter of #1 and #2.

[SAUTO]

i was friends with tim degraffenreid in elementary school real sad that he got tangled up in this shit, but i would still not sign a petition to save him or any of his "friends"