Crabtree at #3 - Page 7

Coogs · 04-03-2009, 02:42 PM

My first choice would be Sanchez, but I don't think that will happen. My 2nd choice is Crabtree. I know many of you don't agree, but I think he would be perfect for Haley and the new offense.

Bowe ran a 4.51 forty. Crabtree is listed at 4.55 on NFLDraftCountdown. That's actually faster than the Cards duo.

Boldin ran a 4.71 forty. Fitzgerald ran a 4.53 forty. These two guys make it work without getting the defense all jammed up as some here claim it would for Bowe and Crabtree.

And here is what Kiper has to say in a chat from this afternoon on ESPN.com...

Quote:

David (Austin): Who does Michael Crabtree compare most favorably to in the NFL?? Do you think there's any "bust" potential with Crabtree?

Mel Kiper: I don't see any bust potential. He's competitive, sure handed, tough WR. I think he compares to a Larry Fitzgerald and an Andre Johnson. If he's anywhere close to being as good as those two, you hit the jackpot.

So if we pass on Sanchez, Crabtree would be the guy I would like as of April 3rd.

Mecca · 04-04-2009, 01:57 PM

Mark Sanchez has nothing to do with what I look for in WR's...

And the white guy comment was for a reason, this market loves guys like that. People acted like Marc Boerigter was going to be a star because he was a white guy playing WR.

He's just not what I look for in WR's, you wanna give me a mid round WR, Brandon Tate.

Saccopoo · 04-05-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Mark Sanchez has nothing to do with what I look for in WR's...

And the white guy comment was for a reason, this market loves guys like that. People acted like Marc Boerigter was going to be a star because he was a white guy playing WR.

He's just not what I look for in WR's, you wanna give me a mid round WR, Brandon Tate.

Eh...It's hard to look at Tate without considering how much Nicks demanded in terms of defensive assignments, especially in the ACC.

I think Collie is going to be downgraded by people for a couple of reasons:

1. He played in a "lesser" conference, although Utah laying it on Alabama should be reason enough to discount this. As well as the number of players who've come out of the MWC and have played well - Steve Smith at Carolina as wide receiver as an example.

2. He played in a spread offense which allowed him to put up his insane numbers. However, BYU has a very long history of putting up insane offensive numbers, and Collie basically holds every BYU receiving record and he's only a junior.

3. He's caucasian. People think of white wide receivers as the ultimate "hands" guy, the third wideout possession guy at best. However, watch him. He's fast, can separate, runs precision routes, has glue for hands, will happily block in run support, and has a nasty-ish attitude. If he was a black guy in a major conference, he's no worse than a round three pick. It's football position perception.

Collie is a special player, and someone is going to steal this guy in the draft. I hope it's the Chiefs. It's not like they could use someone at wideout to actually run a decent route, block on run plays and catch a ball god forbid and get away from the defender once they do.

Mr. Kotter · 04-05-2009, 07:08 PM

Too many needs elsewhere....

Besides, Kiper's evaluation of one Charles Rogers would also give me pause about his WR takes....

Jerm · 04-05-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Too many needs elsewhere....

Besides, Kiper's evaluation of one Charles Rogers would also give me pause about his WR takes....

His analysis of Mike Williams was even scarier.

If you want a WR, why not trade down a few spots, gain more picks, and take Maclin who is a better fit and will be cheaper?

bdeg · 04-05-2009, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerm

His analysis of Mike Williams was even scarier.

If you want a WR, why not trade down a few spots, gain more picks, and take Maclin who is a better fit and will be cheaper?

I believe if they're targeting a WR in the first(doubt it, especially considering the guys we've brought in) this is the right idea, the only question being the value of trades offered. I don't really like Macklin as a top 15 pick though, to tell you the truth. I haven't seen nearly as much of him as many on here, though. It's hard to know what caused the differences in 40 times between his combine and proday. Especially with the controversy with the timing this year.

KCrockaholic · 04-05-2009, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdeg

I believe if they're targeting a WR in the first(doubt it, especially considering the guys we've brought in) this is the right idea, the only question being the value of trades offered. I don't really like Macklin as a top 15 pick though, to tell you the truth. I haven't seen nearly as much of him as many on here, though. It's hard to know what caused the differences in 40 times between his combine and proday. Especially with the controversy with the timing this year.

Maclin's speed is interesting because during a game he can seem to fly downfield and return kicks with his speed. But at the combine he didnt run a 4.35 like so many people basically expected. I like Maclin a lot, because I am a homer. But I also truly believe he will be a darn good player in the NFL thanks to his multi-purpose playing style. He set the record for all-purpose yards as a freshman which was pretty amazing. He has very nice size for a receiver but he lacks the ability to stay healthy during an entire season. He may end up being one of those "what ifs" that is never able to play a full season and has his career cut short due to a big injury. I have him rated as the 11th best player on my top 20 board. He shall be fun to watch when hes healthy.

Coogs · 04-08-2009, 07:34 PM

Pretty good Crabtree article...

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11604213

Teams with seeds of doubt can't see forest for the Crabtree
April 7, 2009
By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

I just saw one mock draft that had Texas Tech wide receiver Michael Crabtree going at the seventh pick to Oakland, which is fine except Michael Crabtree is not the seventh-best player in this year's draft. He might be the second, and he's no worse than the third.

Of course, that doesn't mean he won't drop down the board. Adrian Peterson was one of the top three players in the 2007 draft, and he lasted until the seventh spot. What it does mean is that Crabtree should not drop, with Peterson the textbook example why.

Crabtree has a knack for making tremendous plays. Like Peterson, there are injury concerns about Crabtree -- except this is a stress fracture in his foot that Crabtree said he played with and didn't consider a big deal until doctors at the February scouting combine got hold of him. So he underwent surgery, scratched his Pro Day and, basically, said, "I'll let my work speak for itself."

And his work makes him a top three choice -- just as Peterson's did.

The problem, of course, is that when you draft in the top five you want to make sure you don't make a mistake, and injuries -- or the threat of injuries -- scare off potential suitors. Peterson was on Cleveland's radar in 2007 until the Browns discovered he reinjured his collarbone in the Fiesta Bowl. So they passed with the third pick and chose tackle Joe Thomas instead. Fortunately for the Browns, the move worked out.

But it worked out better for Minnesota, which rode Peterson to the playoffs last year. All the second-year back did was lead the league in rushing, average 4.8 yards a carry, produce 10 touchdowns and carry the Vikings on his back. I know wide receivers seldom have that impact -- particularly rookie wide receivers -- but I'd sure hate to be the club that passed on the next Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald.

"Michael Crabtree," said one pro scout, "is a big, strong guy who can play. Plus, he's a good kid. He's had a lot of exposure in a passing offense, and he's a strong-handed guy who plays as fast as he times. He's not going to run away from you, but he has exceptional quickness. He's a big-time player who will make a good pro."

Notice there wasn't anything in there about Crabtree as a risk. That's because it wasn't mentioned. In fact, when I brought up his injury and his size (he's 6-feet-1/2;, not 6-3) the scout scoffed at the idea, saying neither was a concern. Bottom line, he told me, this is the best wide receiver out there and one of the top prospects at his position in years.

"So then buyers shouldn't beware?" I asked.

"Absolutely not," he said.

So let's see where he goes. You can scratch Detroit at the first spot because the Lions exceeded the statute of limitations on first-round wide receivers and need a quarterback/offensive lineman more. He probably doesn't go to St. Louis at No. 2 because the Rams must straighten out an offensive line with more holes than the Garden State Parkway, and there are two top-shelf tackles out there.

I can't see Kansas City making a play for him at the third position, either, because wide receiver isn't an urgent need. That takes me to Seattle, and if Michael Crabtree is there, coach Jim Mora has a decision to make: Draft for need or draft the best player on the board.

If it's the best player, Crabtree gets the call.

Yeah, I know the Seahawks signed T.J. Houshmandzadeh, but so what? He catches a lot of balls, but he's not a big-play threat. Crabtree is, scoring 41 touchdowns in two seasons at Texas Tech, with 231 catches and 15 100-yard games. He caught 15 passes in one start, 14 in another and never had fewer than four receptions in any game. He had a string of 13 straight contests with at least one touchdown and set the NCAA freshman record for scoring catches in a season. He won the Bilentikoff and Warfield awards. Twice. He was named all to the Big-12 and All-America teams.

In short, he was the best receiver out there.

But he has a stress fracture that has some scouts questioning his durability, and, I'm sorry, I'm out of that club. I heard the same conversation last year about Oregon running back Jonathan Stewart, and the Carolina Panthers weren't fazed. They took him with the 13th pick, and Stewart didn't miss a game. More important, he set team rookie records for rushing and touchdowns.

I heard it with Peterson, too. And I heard it in 2001 with defensive tackle Shaun Rogers, whose stock plunged when he underwent ankle surgery before the combine. Only two teams weren't scared off -- Detroit and Baltimore -- and the Lions got to him at the bottom of the second round before Baltimore could. Rogers didn't miss a start that season and led all defensive linemen in tackles.

I guess what I'm saying is not to dissect this guy too carefully -- or, as Paul Zimmerman of Sports Illustrated used to put it, don't get caught in paralysis by analysis. There's a reason Crabtree was named the country's best receiver the past two seasons, and don't let an X-ray confuse you. Crabtree is the real deal, much like Larry Fitzgerald was the real deal in 2004. The Arizona Cardinals took him with the third pick and were ripped for their decision. Yeah, well, look who's laughing now.

If you're going to pass on Crabtree it better be for a good reason.

04-04-2009, 01:57 PM	#91
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-802950	Mark Sanchez has nothing to do with what I look for in WR's... And the white guy comment was for a reason, this market loves guys like that. People acted like Marc Boerigter was going to be a star because he was a white guy playing WR. He's just not what I look for in WR's, you wanna give me a mid round WR, Brandon Tate.
Posts: 115,445

04-05-2009, 07:08 PM	#93
Mr. Kotter Self Ban Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: In some's minds... Casino cash: $3184285	Too many needs elsewhere.... Besides, Kiper's evaluation of one Charles Rogers would also give me pause about his WR takes.... __________________ Movin' On...
Posts: 46,966

04-08-2009, 07:34 PM	#97
Coogs In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Northern Kansas Casino cash: $-2375651	Pretty good Crabtree article... http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11604213 Teams with seeds of doubt can't see forest for the Crabtree April 7, 2009 By Clark Judge CBSSports.com Senior Writer I just saw one mock draft that had Texas Tech wide receiver Michael Crabtree going at the seventh pick to Oakland, which is fine except Michael Crabtree is not the seventh-best player in this year's draft. He might be the second, and he's no worse than the third. Of course, that doesn't mean he won't drop down the board. Adrian Peterson was one of the top three players in the 2007 draft, and he lasted until the seventh spot. What it does mean is that Crabtree should not drop, with Peterson the textbook example why. Crabtree has a knack for making tremendous plays. Like Peterson, there are injury concerns about Crabtree -- except this is a stress fracture in his foot that Crabtree said he played with and didn't consider a big deal until doctors at the February scouting combine got hold of him. So he underwent surgery, scratched his Pro Day and, basically, said, "I'll let my work speak for itself." And his work makes him a top three choice -- just as Peterson's did. The problem, of course, is that when you draft in the top five you want to make sure you don't make a mistake, and injuries -- or the threat of injuries -- scare off potential suitors. Peterson was on Cleveland's radar in 2007 until the Browns discovered he reinjured his collarbone in the Fiesta Bowl. So they passed with the third pick and chose tackle Joe Thomas instead. Fortunately for the Browns, the move worked out. But it worked out better for Minnesota, which rode Peterson to the playoffs last year. All the second-year back did was lead the league in rushing, average 4.8 yards a carry, produce 10 touchdowns and carry the Vikings on his back. I know wide receivers seldom have that impact -- particularly rookie wide receivers -- but I'd sure hate to be the club that passed on the next Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald. "Michael Crabtree," said one pro scout, "is a big, strong guy who can play. Plus, he's a good kid. He's had a lot of exposure in a passing offense, and he's a strong-handed guy who plays as fast as he times. He's not going to run away from you, but he has exceptional quickness. He's a big-time player who will make a good pro." Notice there wasn't anything in there about Crabtree as a risk. That's because it wasn't mentioned. In fact, when I brought up his injury and his size (he's 6-feet-1/2;, not 6-3) the scout scoffed at the idea, saying neither was a concern. Bottom line, he told me, this is the best wide receiver out there and one of the top prospects at his position in years. "So then buyers shouldn't beware?" I asked. "Absolutely not," he said. So let's see where he goes. You can scratch Detroit at the first spot because the Lions exceeded the statute of limitations on first-round wide receivers and need a quarterback/offensive lineman more. He probably doesn't go to St. Louis at No. 2 because the Rams must straighten out an offensive line with more holes than the Garden State Parkway, and there are two top-shelf tackles out there. I can't see Kansas City making a play for him at the third position, either, because wide receiver isn't an urgent need. That takes me to Seattle, and if Michael Crabtree is there, coach Jim Mora has a decision to make: Draft for need or draft the best player on the board. If it's the best player, Crabtree gets the call. Yeah, I know the Seahawks signed T.J. Houshmandzadeh, but so what? He catches a lot of balls, but he's not a big-play threat. Crabtree is, scoring 41 touchdowns in two seasons at Texas Tech, with 231 catches and 15 100-yard games. He caught 15 passes in one start, 14 in another and never had fewer than four receptions in any game. He had a string of 13 straight contests with at least one touchdown and set the NCAA freshman record for scoring catches in a season. He won the Bilentikoff and Warfield awards. Twice. He was named all to the Big-12 and All-America teams. In short, he was the best receiver out there. But he has a stress fracture that has some scouts questioning his durability, and, I'm sorry, I'm out of that club. I heard the same conversation last year about Oregon running back Jonathan Stewart, and the Carolina Panthers weren't fazed. They took him with the 13th pick, and Stewart didn't miss a game. More important, he set team rookie records for rushing and touchdowns. I heard it with Peterson, too. And I heard it in 2001 with defensive tackle Shaun Rogers, whose stock plunged when he underwent ankle surgery before the combine. Only two teams weren't scared off -- Detroit and Baltimore -- and the Lions got to him at the bottom of the second round before Baltimore could. Rogers didn't miss a start that season and led all defensive linemen in tackles. I guess what I'm saying is not to dissect this guy too carefully -- or, as Paul Zimmerman of Sports Illustrated used to put it, don't get caught in paralysis by analysis. There's a reason Crabtree was named the country's best receiver the past two seasons, and don't let an X-ray confuse you. Crabtree is the real deal, much like Larry Fitzgerald was the real deal in 2004. The Arizona Cardinals took him with the third pick and were ripped for their decision. Yeah, well, look who's laughing now. If you're going to pass on Crabtree it better be for a good reason.
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