Chiefs O-Line analysis - Page 7

milkman · 03-20-2010, 08:34 AM

Saw this posted eleswhere.
Took a quick look around and didn't see it here.
If it's repost, then that's just too damn bad.

Frankie gets to give me shit, though, if it is.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...-line-analysis

With the addition of what should be two new starters, I thought I would give you a few facts that the public is not aware of, along with some personal reflection on my part.

The Chiefs have made some positive moves this past week, but the team knows a lot more has to be done. They need a right tackle and depth.

I thought I would expand a bit and give some statistics you will rarely see anywhere.

First of all, this OL was bad last year, but that's in the past.

Lets look at the starters at this point.

BRANDEN ALBERT

Albert did not have the greatest of seasons in this year's rankings. His overall ranking was in the bottom 20 percent among offensive tackles in the league. He gave up seven sacks and 18 QB pressures playing left tackle. He was also guilty of being called for 13 penalties—that was more than any tackle in football.

I think a lot of the problem with Albert was that he played hurt. He started the year injured but was still willing to play. One would have to wonder if that in any way hindered his performance. I believe it did.

Albert is too gifted to not succeed at that position. We have not seen Albert at his best.

As a straight-ahead run blocker, at the line, he has average strength. It's when he's on the move that he is most dangerous.

At Virginia, Albert pulled frequently from his left guard position. The longer he ran, the bigger the impact. He was a BEAST when it came to blocking on the move—I mean he exploded into guys on the second level and drove them into the ground. That was the big reason for his success—his explosion on the move.

I would think that with Charles and Jones, who are better in space, Albert should find more confidence that will help him from being measured only by his ability to pass block. If healthy, he'll get a lot better. He has the feet to protect the quarterback.

One more note about Albert: Many have said that he was a natural guard in college and that he didn't play tackle because Eugene Monroe was better. That is totally untrue. The reason he played guard is because Monroe refused to. Albert made that move inside because he was an unselfish player. So before people jump to conclusions, they shouldn't speak at all unless they know the whole story.

The people involved in this falsehood were fellow divisional "bashers" not Chief bloggers

BRIAN WATERS

Waters had a very poor season as well, mostly because of aging. He ranked 20th amongst players at his position, and most of the reason he was that high was because of his excellent pass protection. For the season, he was charged with only giving up one sack. In addition, when blocking straight ahead, he opened a few holes. But his mobility is the problem at this point in his career.

His other problems? Penalties.

Like Albert, he was the most penalized player at his position in the game.

Despite those figures he's still a very good player—just not one of the best anymore.

CASEY WEIGMANN

Weigmann ranked 23rd out of the 32 starting offensive centers last year. At his age, his better years are behind him, but that doesn't mean he can't play. He was only slightly better at pass blocking than Niswanger, but he graded out much better as a run blocker.

Weigman, of course, played in a zone-blocking scheme in Denver and played extremely well these past few years, proving that he was not as washed up as the Chiefs thought. He still excels in making line calls and adjustments, and he can still pull.

Remember those classic sweeps that Priest Holmes ran under Vermeil? It was Weigmann that was the first guy down the field, not Roaf or Shields. The problem now, however, is how much does he have left?

RYAN LILJA

Well, we all know his story, so I won't repeat it. Lilja graded out at 14th at offensive guard—which is very good. It is by far the best grade of any Chief lineman last year.

Despite being 290 pounds, it is his run blocking that stood out more than his pass protection. He was in the top five out of 64 guards when it came to screen blocking—great news for the Chiefs with both Albert and Weigmann excelling in that area.

He did not give up many sacks, but you have to take into account the quarterback that was behind him all these years.

Indianapolis usually leads the NFL in pass protection, but its not because the line is that talented. It's because they have Peyton Manning. It is Manning's intelligence, ability to get rid of the ball quickly, short drops, making quick reads, and throwing the ball away that skewed their stats favorably.

Without a doubt though, Lilja will play as well as Cassel plays, which means that Cassel needs to play well.

RYAN O'CALLIGHAN

Do you really want to know? I didn't think so.

Actually I thought he did OK, but looks are deceiving. He finished 57th. He played less than 850 snaps and still gave up nine sacks and was responsible for 24 QB pressures. His run blocking was just as bad, and he got flagged a lot to boot. Its very clear with this guy—bad starter, but decent, experienced backup.

As for the backups, well, if everything was great in Kansas City most of the guys mentioned would be the backups. Niswanger provides depth at center. Ndukwe played out of position at tackle, but is really their depth at guard. After that, all bets are off.

So where does that leave the Chiefs?

They need to get a stud right tackle for sure and a few guys they can groom for the immediate future.

Many people now feel that Bulaga and Okung don't seem to fit at this point.

But they're wrong.

Both of those guys are outstanding run blockers and would be great right tackles. In addition, that player would provide depth at left tackle, should Albert get hurt. Last year, they played the season without one.

No matter how you slice it, the Chiefs now have a better line, and that's good news.

But it's not rebuilt yet. We'll see where they are after draft days.

(Props to HG at HoTC)

Hammock Parties · 03-20-2010, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Waters isn't really that bad of a player.

You straight up don't know what you're watching.

Christ, he was the most penalized guard in the entire league last year.

He's done.

aturnis · 03-20-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Good read MM. I think Lilja is done, JMO. Albert hopefully gets better and becomes the player he can be. We need a RT bad. Maybe Big Bad Barry will finally step.
Posted via Mobile Device

I think you listen to Dane too much. Lilja will be fine. He started an entire season last year. Superbowl too.

aturnis · 03-20-2010, 11:55 PM

Lets stay away from sister ****er and hope that Kyle Calloway is still there in the 4th. Then get a center in the 5th/6th.

aturnis · 03-21-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoChiefs

You straight up don't know what you're watching.

Christ, he was the most penalized guard in the entire league last year.

He's done.

And you have selective reading. I said he wasn't that bad. Playing next to the Rude made him look worse. Not to mention Albert at the beginning of the season.

Waters had 8 penalties in 16 games. 4 were holding, thanks Milkman, and I'm sure the other 4 were probably false starts. Wonder how many of those came in the first half of the season when the team was amongst the worst I've ever seen fielded. Mostly b/c THEY JUST STARTED LEARNING THE NEW BLOCKING SCHEME. Go right to your GIF'd up and look at how CLUELESS this line was those first few weeks. There were sacks given up just b/c guys had NO CLUE who they were even supposed to block.

He's not as good as he once was, but as I said earlier, he's still adequate.

Mecca · 03-21-2010, 12:07 AM

Kyle Calloway is not that talented, I think he's one of the more consistently overrated players on this forum.

aturnis · 03-21-2010, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

According to this:

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...d=5349&team=12

Waters had the most holding calls of his career, but it was still only 4, while Albert was only called for 2 holds.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playersta...d=8792&team=12

Heh, you're right. I just seem to remember an awful lot of Charles 10+ yd. runs and maybe a TD called back.

Looks like half of Waters penalties were holding.

aturnis · 03-21-2010, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Kyle Calloway is not that talented, I think he's one of the more consistently overrated players on this forum.

nfldraftcountdown has him rated as the #12 OT overall. Right or left side. He's solid all around. Good pass protection and a hell of a run blocker. Sure as hell better than O'Callaghan.

Titty Meat · 03-21-2010, 12:10 AM

lol everyone this asshole disagrees with listens to Dane too much.

aturnis · 03-21-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billay

lol everyone this asshole disagrees with listens to Dane too much.

Why else would he think Lilja is spent? Nobody in the media seems to thinks he's shot. This team doesn't think so. Last years numbers don't say so. No one will really know until he plays behind Cassel, but I really don't think there is any reason to be pessimistic at this point in time.

BIG K · 03-21-2010, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

He's not as good as he once was, but as I said earlier, he's still adequate.

I agree with this assesment. I can't help but think the last minute changes in offensive 'coordinators', the constant changes of guys on the line might have skewed his ability this year.

Seems not uncommen for O lineman to play well into their 30's. We should know pretty soon this year if he is done or has a few years left IMHO.

Mecca · 03-21-2010, 12:16 AM

I actually think he's basically O'Callaghan by a different name, I think Calloway is a 5th or 6th rounder that probably projects better to guard than he does tackle.

This OT class really isn't that deep there's maybe 10 or 11 guys that can start at OT at the next level.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-21-2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

I think you listen to Dane too much. Lilja will be fine. He started an entire season last year. Superbowl too.

I think you don't understand ANY of the point's that have been made by me regarding Lilja.

1. He played left guard in Indy, not right guard, which he'll be playing in KC.

2. He was paid a $1.5 million dollar roster bonus, yet subsequently cut. Please explain why ANY team would do that outside of injury and health concerns.

3. He signed with one of the worst teams in the league, not one of the best teams in the league. IIRC, he signed for 3 years, $7 million dollars. Let's not pretend he got Steve Hutchinson money.

4. He missed the entire 2008 season due to three different surgeries. Please explain why this is good?

5. Please explain how a poor run blocker (32nd running team in the NFL) is going to adequately play right guard, normally a run blocking, downhill positional player, at 290 pounds.

We'll be awaiting your expert analysis.

BIG K · 03-21-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

2. He was paid a $1.5 million dollar roster bonus, yet subsequently cut. Please explain why ANY team would do that outside of injury and health concerns.

I have been wondering about that myself........If their intention was to get 'bigger' on the o-line as many have stated, why waste the money to retain him and then suddenely cut him?

aturnis · 03-21-2010, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think you don't understand ANY of the point's that have been made by me regarding Lilja.

Quote:

1. He played left guard in Indy, not right guard, which he'll be playing in KC.

And...? If he can make the change in footwork, which I don't know if he will, but I can only hope, he should be fine. RG is the fourth most demanding spot on the line. So it's kind of a LT to RT type argument. It should be easier to play, so, if the footwork pans out. No problem.

Quote:

2. He was paid a $1.5 million dollar roster bonus, yet subsequently cut. Please explain why ANY team would do that outside of injury and health concerns.

Apparently the explanation floating around in the Indianapolis media is b/c they want to go to more of a power blocking scheme. Need a bigger body.

Quote:

3. He signed with one of the worst teams in the league, not one of the best teams in the league. IIRC, he signed for 3 years, $7 million dollars. Let's not pretend he got Steve Hutchinson money.

Paint it however you want. Who cares what he gets paid, really. Does it matter? He grew up here, his family is here. Maybe he really did have a chip on his shoulder before he came to meet with Pioli, but apparently he didn't have that same chip when he left. Did you mention that his mother lives at Lake Quivira, and he is getting married this summer and is building a house, also at Lake Quivira?

Quote:

4. He missed the entire 2008 season due to three different surgeries. Please explain why this is good?

Never said it was. Must not have been too bad last year though. My post you quoted should explain why.

Quote:

5. Please explain how a poor run blocker (32nd running team in the NFL) is going to adequately play right guard, normally a run blocking, downhill positional player, at 290 pounds.

So being on a poor running team makes you a poor run blocker? I mean, he was handily the best run blocker on that line, which is obvious if you look at where the RB's had the most production. Also, they didn't run the ball nearly as much as most teams do. They have Manning and a glut of receiving talent.

That doesn't excuse them from sucking as much as they did while running the ball, but then again most running games get stronger as the game goes on, and Addai only carried the ball 14 times a game.

You can't simply look at an o line that has a poor run game, and say that every player sucks at run blocking. That's just arrogant.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-21-2010, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

And...? If he can make the change in footwork, which I don't know if he will, but I can only hope, he should be fine. RG is the fourth most demanding spot on the line. So it's kind of a LT to RT type argument. It should be easier to play, so, if the footwork pans out. No problem.

Apparently the explanation floating around in the Indianapolis media is b/c they want to go to more of a power blocking scheme. Need a bigger body.

Paint it however you want. Who cares what he gets paid, really. Does it matter? He grew up here, his family is here. Maybe he really did have a chip on his shoulder before he came to meet with Pioli, but apparently he didn't have that same chip when he left. Did you mention that his mother lives at Lake Quivira, and he is getting married this summer and is building a house, also at Lake Quivira?

Never said it was. Must not have been too bad last year though. My post you quoted should explain why.

So being on a poor running team makes you a poor run blocker? I mean, he was handily the best run blocker on that line, which is obvious if you look at where the RB's had the most production. Also, they didn't run the ball nearly as much as most teams do. They have Manning and a glut of receiving talent.

That doesn't excuse them from sucking as much as they did while running the ball, but then again most running games get stronger as the game goes on, and Addai only carried the ball 14 times a game.

You can't simply look at an o line that has a poor run game, and say that every player sucks at run blocking. That's just arrogant.

I'm sorry but you've said absolutely NOTHING.

You're speculating and have provided NO facts.

Coming from you, I expected as much.

Do us all a favor and keep your mouth shut unless you actually have some proof of your allegations.

That is, unless you enjoy embarrassing yourself.

03-20-2010, 08:34 AM
milkman Dumbass! Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Leading the Marty bashing Casino cash: $10029395	O-Line analysis Saw this posted eleswhere. Took a quick look around and didn't see it here. If it's repost, then that's just too damn bad. Frankie gets to give me shit, though, if it is. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...-line-analysis With the addition of what should be two new starters, I thought I would give you a few facts that the public is not aware of, along with some personal reflection on my part. The Chiefs have made some positive moves this past week, but the team knows a lot more has to be done. They need a right tackle and depth. I thought I would expand a bit and give some statistics you will rarely see anywhere. First of all, this OL was bad last year, but that's in the past. Lets look at the starters at this point. BRANDEN ALBERT Albert did not have the greatest of seasons in this year's rankings. His overall ranking was in the bottom 20 percent among offensive tackles in the league. He gave up seven sacks and 18 QB pressures playing left tackle. He was also guilty of being called for 13 penalties—that was more than any tackle in football. I think a lot of the problem with Albert was that he played hurt. He started the year injured but was still willing to play. One would have to wonder if that in any way hindered his performance. I believe it did. Albert is too gifted to not succeed at that position. We have not seen Albert at his best. As a straight-ahead run blocker, at the line, he has average strength. It's when he's on the move that he is most dangerous. At Virginia, Albert pulled frequently from his left guard position. The longer he ran, the bigger the impact. He was a BEAST when it came to blocking on the move—I mean he exploded into guys on the second level and drove them into the ground. That was the big reason for his success—his explosion on the move. I would think that with Charles and Jones, who are better in space, Albert should find more confidence that will help him from being measured only by his ability to pass block. If healthy, he'll get a lot better. He has the feet to protect the quarterback. One more note about Albert: Many have said that he was a natural guard in college and that he didn't play tackle because Eugene Monroe was better. That is totally untrue. The reason he played guard is because Monroe refused to. Albert made that move inside because he was an unselfish player. So before people jump to conclusions, they shouldn't speak at all unless they know the whole story. The people involved in this falsehood were fellow divisional "bashers" not Chief bloggers BRIAN WATERS Waters had a very poor season as well, mostly because of aging. He ranked 20th amongst players at his position, and most of the reason he was that high was because of his excellent pass protection. For the season, he was charged with only giving up one sack. In addition, when blocking straight ahead, he opened a few holes. But his mobility is the problem at this point in his career. His other problems? Penalties. Like Albert, he was the most penalized player at his position in the game. Despite those figures he's still a very good player—just not one of the best anymore. CASEY WEIGMANN Weigmann ranked 23rd out of the 32 starting offensive centers last year. At his age, his better years are behind him, but that doesn't mean he can't play. He was only slightly better at pass blocking than Niswanger, but he graded out much better as a run blocker. Weigman, of course, played in a zone-blocking scheme in Denver and played extremely well these past few years, proving that he was not as washed up as the Chiefs thought. He still excels in making line calls and adjustments, and he can still pull. Remember those classic sweeps that Priest Holmes ran under Vermeil? It was Weigmann that was the first guy down the field, not Roaf or Shields. The problem now, however, is how much does he have left? RYAN LILJA Well, we all know his story, so I won't repeat it. Lilja graded out at 14th at offensive guard—which is very good. It is by far the best grade of any Chief lineman last year. Despite being 290 pounds, it is his run blocking that stood out more than his pass protection. He was in the top five out of 64 guards when it came to screen blocking—great news for the Chiefs with both Albert and Weigmann excelling in that area. He did not give up many sacks, but you have to take into account the quarterback that was behind him all these years. Indianapolis usually leads the NFL in pass protection, but its not because the line is that talented. It's because they have Peyton Manning. It is Manning's intelligence, ability to get rid of the ball quickly, short drops, making quick reads, and throwing the ball away that skewed their stats favorably. Without a doubt though, Lilja will play as well as Cassel plays, which means that Cassel needs to play well. RYAN O'CALLIGHAN Do you really want to know? I didn't think so. Actually I thought he did OK, but looks are deceiving. He finished 57th. He played less than 850 snaps and still gave up nine sacks and was responsible for 24 QB pressures. His run blocking was just as bad, and he got flagged a lot to boot. Its very clear with this guy—bad starter, but decent, experienced backup. As for the backups, well, if everything was great in Kansas City most of the guys mentioned would be the backups. Niswanger provides depth at center. Ndukwe played out of position at tackle, but is really their depth at guard. After that, all bets are off. So where does that leave the Chiefs? They need to get a stud right tackle for sure and a few guys they can groom for the immediate future. Many people now feel that Bulaga and Okung don't seem to fit at this point. But they're wrong. Both of those guys are outstanding run blockers and would be great right tackles. In addition, that player would provide depth at left tackle, should Albert get hurt. Last year, they played the season without one. No matter how you slice it, the Chiefs now have a better line, and that's good news. But it's not rebuilt yet. We'll see where they are after draft days. (Props to HG at HoTC)
Posts: 70,769

03-20-2010, 11:55 PM	#93
aturnis MVP Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Iowa Casino cash: $9975811	Lets stay away from sister ****er and hope that Kyle Calloway is still there in the 4th. Then get a center in the 5th/6th.
Posts: 13,873

03-21-2010, 12:07 AM	#95
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-672950	Kyle Calloway is not that talented, I think he's one of the more consistently overrated players on this forum.
Posts: 115,346

03-21-2010, 12:10 AM	#98
Titty Meat Inmem 2.0 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: My house Casino cash: $-1142442	lol everyone this asshole disagrees with listens to Dane too much.
Posts: 78,127

03-21-2010, 12:16 AM	#101
Mecca Hockey Town Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kansas City, Missouri Casino cash: $-672950	I actually think he's basically O'Callaghan by a different name, I think Calloway is a 5th or 6th rounder that probably projects better to guard than he does tackle. This OT class really isn't that deep there's maybe 10 or 11 guys that can start at OT at the next level.
Posts: 115,346