Chiefs First-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks - Page 7

**Tribal Warfare** · 08-22-2015, 01:11 PM

Chiefs’ first-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks

Reasonable minds can disagree on this, but for me, the moment of certainty that the Chiefs’ second preseason game would be a giant waste of time for the first-string offense came on their second drive.

Maybe you remember this. Things were looking up, actually. The Chiefs had just picked up a first down on a short pass — did you just snicker? — to Jamaal Charles. Then came trouble.

Paul Fanaika, who — bless his heart — was starting at right tackle against the Seahawks, was pushed straight backward until K.J. Wright released to tackle running back Knile Davis for a 6-yard loss. That was bad enough, but you know, one bad play.

Then came the clincher. The Chiefs called a screen pass, which was a good idea with their line overmatched, and Charles may have been able to make something of it. But Laurent Duvernay-Tardif — and while we’re at it, bless his heart, too — tackled Charles. Yep. He tackled him. He didn’t mean to, we should make this point clear, but that’s what happened. Duvernay-Tardif ran into Charles, and Charles went down.

Impressive play, actually. Charles is very good in space.

Now, obviously, we can have fun here. It’s preseason football. This exists mostly for five reasons: the owners make money, regular players can find rhythm, the owners make money, coaches can fill the bottom of their rosters, and last, but definitely not least: the owners make money.

We’re supposed to include scores when we write about games, so the Chiefs ended up beating the Seahawks 14-13 on Friday at Arrowhead Stadium. If there is any preseason game worth analyzing, it’s the third one, next Friday against the Titans, when the starters will likely play into the second half.

But we are sports fans, which means we don’t need things to actually matter to pay attention to them, so it’s nothing but good, clean, wholesome fun to watch these preseason games and find something to talk about.

Only, here, for the Chiefs, there is nothing.

Not for the first-team offense, anyway.

“We’re missing a few guys,” Chiefs coach Andy Reid understated when asked if he knew who his regular-season offensive line would be. “We have a pretty good idea. We’re missing a couple of guys.”

The defense has earned trust. The offense is another matter. The Chiefs themselves know this. That’s why they signed Jeremy Maclin to play receiver, and why they worked to upgrade the offensive line. If there is an area Chiefs fans would particularly like to see progress in before the season starts, this is it.

It’s just that the line is making that impossible.

This is nobody’s fault, really. It’s not even a real reason to worry, at least not yet. The Chiefs played against one of the NFL’s best pass rushing defenses with the previously mentioned Duvernay-Tardif and Fanaika mismatched with the first team instead of the injured Eric Fisher and Jeff Allen. The results were, let’s be kind here, not great.

“I still have a lot to learn,” Duvernay-Tardif said. “It was good to have reps with the ones. You get to experience the real speed of the game. I made a couple of mistakes. I need to get better.”

That’s two-fifths of the line taken up by guys who won’t play in the regular season unless something goes very wrong, which meant Seahawks star Michael Bennett could practice his sack dance and Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith could practice his prayers. On Saturday, he can practice getting treatment on what will be way more aches than a preseason game should cause.

The starters played until halftime. They’ve now had eight drives: one touchdown, one field goal, two interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), three punts, and one Hail Mary at the end of the half.

That’s less than ideal, obviously, but with the offensive line only vaguely resembling what it will look like once the season starts — Fisher and Allen are both expected to be healthy by then — it’s hard to evaluate.

“It can be tough sometimes,” Donald Stephenson said of not being able to play with the likely regular-season starters. “But that’s O-lineman play. Everything’s tough about what we do. They don’t say our name when we play well. You hear our name when we don’t play well. We’re the guys who tough it out through the good and the bad.”

The offensive line is this team’s biggest concern. Particularly on the interior, they showed a bad habit of getting beat on stunts last year.

Fisher made some nice progress as the season went on, and looked solid in the first preseason game, but he is still a young left tackle who has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Stephenson played sparingly last year. Mitch Morse is a rookie. Ben Grubbs is a proven veteran, but this is his first season with the Chiefs. Jeff Allen missed all but the first game last year.

Maybe the line would struggle even at full strength. Maybe it will struggle once the season starts. But there’s no way to know that now, and what’s worse, it’s affecting how everything else can be viewed. It’d be nice to see a clearer comparison between Davis and Charcandrick West for the No. 2 running back job. It’d be nice to see if Maclin can get downfield. It’d be nice to see if Smith will throw it downfield.

But with an already questionable offensive line weakened by two key injuries, all of that is clouded. The play-calling has to change. Smith’s interception was a rotten throw directly into coverage, so no excuses, but this was not a realistic environment.

Football can be a complicated thing, but there is a very simple truth here: when the offensive line breaks down, everything breaks down.

As long as the Chiefs’ line is less than whole and blocking like this, it’s hard to know much about anything else.

At least, the Chiefs hope this isn’t how it will look when the real games start.

NJChiefsFan · 08-22-2015, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

It wasn't the Chiefs best talent out there last night. A 2nd year, 6th round pick, an old 7th rounder playing right tackle when he's played 50+ games at right guard. A 2nd string left tackle.

And still, the Chiefs moved the ball and scored, something Seattle couldn't do.

I know and I didn't walk away from that game thinking it was any kind of true indicator. Still as I mentioned, there are other reasons to still be a little uncomfortable.

The Chiefs did have one very nice drive. Also, if we are using injuries or people missing, we should point out that Lynch and Sherman didn't play. I'm not saying KC can't handle Lynch, they showed they could beat them. Not having Sherman helped.

I'm not trying to be negative. I like the Chiefs roster, and I really like what Dorsey is doing. I know Clay gets crucified for past transgressions, and fair enough, but I don't think being concerned is that crazy a stance to have.

Hammock Parties · 08-22-2015, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

You know who's ****ed? The Texans.

Mother****erJones · 08-23-2015, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop, Chiefs

Cherry picker

NJChiefsFan · 08-23-2015, 12:02 AM

Hopikins was top 10 in league in percentage of teams targets, and that was with Johnson there. Chiefs need to force the ball away from him and they should do well against that offense.

Mother****erJones · 08-23-2015, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan

Hopikins was top 10 in league in percentage of teams targets, and that was with Johnson there. Chiefs need to force the ball away from him and they should do well against that offense.

With Foster out, they need to take away Hopkins. We have the defense. Alex just can't give Watt any INT TDs

**Mav** · 08-23-2015, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stop, Chiefs

Quick. Name one 49er worth a shit in there right now. Psst. The 49ers defense is asshole right now.

**Bob Dole** · 08-23-2015, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Funny, they weren't "****ed" against the Seahawks "formidable" defense, nor were they "****ed" against the formidable Cardinals defense.

You know who's ****ed? The Texans. Brian Hoyer? No TE. No RB. Aging offensive line. One WR.

But yeah, it's the Chiefs that are "****ed".

They apparently haven't settled on Hoyer. We may get to feast on Ryan Mallett.

Sweet Daddy Hate · 08-23-2015, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mav

So which is it. Do preseason games matter or not? I'm confused.

The starting line of preseason game #1, sans injuries, all bodies on the field, should be enough.

I won't discount game planning for the regs, but I sure as hell wouldn't stake my season on it either.

**Mav** · 08-23-2015, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Daddy Williams

The starting line of preseason game #1, sans injuries, all bodies on the field, should be enough.

I won't discount game planning for the regs, but I sure as hell wouldn't stake my season on it either.

Yeah. And I'm not trolling you or anything, but it's easy to see people do well in preseason against guys who won't be on NFL rosters in a month.

Andy Reid saying how catapano played ok versus the ones, but much better against the twos. Like the drop off is ridiculous.

milkman · 08-23-2015, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

They spent a 2nd round pick on Morse and want to get him into the future starting center they envision him being as soon as possible.

It's no different than the veteran QB who plays much better than the rookie, but the team nevertheless goes with the rookie.

And besides that, it's not like the Chiefs have come out and said, "Morse is the starter."

I really wouldn't be surprised at all to see Kush all of a sudden get first team reps in practice this week and in the next preseason game.

I would be surprised if Kush is given reps with the 1s.

As solid as he has been this preseason, which has come as a surprise to me, he doesn't have the strong base and the athletic ability to match Morse.

Morse is going to struggle due to his lack of experience, but his athletic ability gives him a big edge over Kush in this system.

Pasta Little Brioni · 08-23-2015, 08:13 AM

Damn loaded squad and about to add an All Pro Guard to the fold. Fun times.

TEX · 08-23-2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RealSNR

Again, your definition of "solid" means something closer to that 2003 line than it does an average NFL offensive line. Your expectations are ridiculous.

We HAD a good group until we had lots of injuries. Right now your expectation is that the offensive line with ****ing Paul Fanaika at RT should have looked good against a top 5 DL in the NFL. The fact that it didn't means it's not "solid" or adequate.

It's not just unreasonable. It's ****ing stupid is what it is.

Whats stupid is you insisting on your agenda here. I clearly stated that the line is bottom 1\3 in the league (maybe even bottom 1/4 now that I think about it) and that's not good enough. I dont think we had a good group to begin with week 1 past Fish & Grubs. Im not talking about week 2 except to say we are lacking in quality depth, which might be the case many teams share... It all translates into the line is still not good enough this season as it stands now. You have a different opinion and that's fine. However, you keep forcing your agenda by bringing up the 2003 line and insisting its the standard that I want. You're completely wrong with that take.

Simply Red · 08-23-2015, 08:51 AM

Look - we're 2 and 0, not sure what it takes to make you all happy - I mean; we have a LEGITIMATE chance at going 4 and 0 in Preseason - and nobody even shows excitement - SO FRUSTRATING - Go CHIEFS! 22 and 0!!!

Saccopoo · 08-23-2015, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simply Red

Look - we're 2 and 0, not sure what it takes to make you all happy - I mean; we have a LEGITIMATE chance at going 4 and 0 in Preseason - and nobody even shows excitement - SO FRUSTRATING - Go CHIEFS! 22 and 0!!!

Because this place has been infected by a non-stop avalanche of subjective negativism where it's continually stated that nothing that this team does is good enough and we are all doomed to suffer a life time of misery because each and every little thing sucks so bad that it's obvious that the team just wants us to be a bunch of losers every day, every year for the rest of our lifetimes.

God forbid that the team has just had back to back winning seasons (with a playoff appearance too boot) for the first time since 1993 and looks to be geared up for a serious "contention" level season where they have started 2-0 in the preseason against two solid teams in the Cardinals and Seahawks.

But..."OH NOES!!!! WE ARE TOTALLY ****ED BECAUSE WE ARE THE CHIEFS!!!!!! (Yeah, sure, they don't have anything else to go on other than their own pessimistic, loser attitudes and therefore shit on every single aspect of the team - good, bad, regardless.)

They might as well just call this place "Claynus' Planet" and be done with it.

Either that, or just ****ing flush the obvious turds and clean this place up and make it what it once was - an objective arena where informed, insightful Chiefs discussion could be found.

You know it's bad when guys like DaFace are putting out thread starters regarding the obvious degradation of the quality of the board.

It's not going to get better until you cut out the cancers.

Kill the ****ing trolls.

Rivermike87 · 08-23-2015, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Because this place has been infected by a non-stop avalanche of subjective negativism where it's continually stated that nothing that this team does is good enough and we are all doomed to suffer a life time of misery because each and every little thing sucks so bad that it's obvious that the team just wants us to be a bunch of losers every day, every year for the rest of our lifetimes.

God forbid that the team has just had back to back winning seasons (with a playoff appearance too boot) for the first time since 1993 and looks to be geared up for a serious "contention" level season where they have started 2-0 in the preseason against two solid teams in the Cardinals and Seahawks.

But..."OH NOES!!!! WE ARE TOTALLY ****ED BECAUSE WE ARE THE CHIEFS!!!!!! (Yeah, sure, they don't have anything else to go on other than their own pessimistic, loser attitudes and therefore shit on every single aspect of the team - good, bad, regardless.)

They might as well just call this place "Claynus' Planet" and be done with it.

Either that, or just ****ing flush the obvious turds and clean this place up and make it what it once was - an objective arena where informed, insightful Chiefs discussion could be found.

You know it's bad when guys like DaFace are putting out thread starters regarding the obvious degradation of the quality of the board.

It's not going to get better until you cut out the cancers.

Kill the ****ing trolls.

AMEN

08-22-2015, 01:11 PM
Tribal Warfare The Boom Boom Room Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $552813	First-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks Chiefs’ first-string offensive line still isn’t put together, and it shows against Seahawks Reasonable minds can disagree on this, but for me, the moment of certainty that the Chiefs’ second preseason game would be a giant waste of time for the first-string offense came on their second drive. Maybe you remember this. Things were looking up, actually. The Chiefs had just picked up a first down on a short pass — did you just snicker? — to Jamaal Charles. Then came trouble. Paul Fanaika, who — bless his heart — was starting at right tackle against the Seahawks, was pushed straight backward until K.J. Wright released to tackle running back Knile Davis for a 6-yard loss. That was bad enough, but you know, one bad play. Then came the clincher. The Chiefs called a screen pass, which was a good idea with their line overmatched, and Charles may have been able to make something of it. But Laurent Duvernay-Tardif — and while we’re at it, bless his heart, too — tackled Charles. Yep. He tackled him. He didn’t mean to, we should make this point clear, but that’s what happened. Duvernay-Tardif ran into Charles, and Charles went down. Impressive play, actually. Charles is very good in space. Now, obviously, we can have fun here. It’s preseason football. This exists mostly for five reasons: the owners make money, regular players can find rhythm, the owners make money, coaches can fill the bottom of their rosters, and last, but definitely not least: the owners make money. We’re supposed to include scores when we write about games, so the Chiefs ended up beating the Seahawks 14-13 on Friday at Arrowhead Stadium. If there is any preseason game worth analyzing, it’s the third one, next Friday against the Titans, when the starters will likely play into the second half. But we are sports fans, which means we don’t need things to actually matter to pay attention to them, so it’s nothing but good, clean, wholesome fun to watch these preseason games and find something to talk about. Only, here, for the Chiefs, there is nothing. Not for the first-team offense, anyway. “We’re missing a few guys,” Chiefs coach Andy Reid understated when asked if he knew who his regular-season offensive line would be. “We have a pretty good idea. We’re missing a couple of guys.” The defense has earned trust. The offense is another matter. The Chiefs themselves know this. That’s why they signed Jeremy Maclin to play receiver, and why they worked to upgrade the offensive line. If there is an area Chiefs fans would particularly like to see progress in before the season starts, this is it. It’s just that the line is making that impossible. This is nobody’s fault, really. It’s not even a real reason to worry, at least not yet. The Chiefs played against one of the NFL’s best pass rushing defenses with the previously mentioned Duvernay-Tardif and Fanaika mismatched with the first team instead of the injured Eric Fisher and Jeff Allen. The results were, let’s be kind here, not great. “I still have a lot to learn,” Duvernay-Tardif said. “It was good to have reps with the ones. You get to experience the real speed of the game. I made a couple of mistakes. I need to get better.” That’s two-fifths of the line taken up by guys who won’t play in the regular season unless something goes very wrong, which meant Seahawks star Michael Bennett could practice his sack dance and Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith could practice his prayers. On Saturday, he can practice getting treatment on what will be way more aches than a preseason game should cause. The starters played until halftime. They’ve now had eight drives: one touchdown, one field goal, two interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), three punts, and one Hail Mary at the end of the half. That’s less than ideal, obviously, but with the offensive line only vaguely resembling what it will look like once the season starts — Fisher and Allen are both expected to be healthy by then — it’s hard to evaluate. “It can be tough sometimes,” Donald Stephenson said of not being able to play with the likely regular-season starters. “But that’s O-lineman play. Everything’s tough about what we do. They don’t say our name when we play well. You hear our name when we don’t play well. We’re the guys who tough it out through the good and the bad.” The offensive line is this team’s biggest concern. Particularly on the interior, they showed a bad habit of getting beat on stunts last year. Fisher made some nice progress as the season went on, and looked solid in the first preseason game, but he is still a young left tackle who has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Stephenson played sparingly last year. Mitch Morse is a rookie. Ben Grubbs is a proven veteran, but this is his first season with the Chiefs. Jeff Allen missed all but the first game last year. Maybe the line would struggle even at full strength. Maybe it will struggle once the season starts. But there’s no way to know that now, and what’s worse, it’s affecting how everything else can be viewed. It’d be nice to see a clearer comparison between Davis and Charcandrick West for the No. 2 running back job. It’d be nice to see if Maclin can get downfield. It’d be nice to see if Smith will throw it downfield. But with an already questionable offensive line weakened by two key injuries, all of that is clouded. The play-calling has to change. Smith’s interception was a rotten throw directly into coverage, so no excuses, but this was not a realistic environment. Football can be a complicated thing, but there is a very simple truth here: when the offensive line breaks down, everything breaks down. As long as the Chiefs’ line is less than whole and blocking like this, it’s hard to know much about anything else. At least, the Chiefs hope this isn’t how it will look when the real games start.
Posts: 42,166

08-23-2015, 12:02 AM	#94
NJChiefsFan I've Made a Huge Mistake Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: NJ Casino cash: $5750423	Hopikins was top 10 in league in percentage of teams targets, and that was with Johnson there. Chiefs need to force the ball away from him and they should do well against that offense.
Posts: 12,235

08-23-2015, 08:13 AM	#101
Pasta Little Brioni Consuming CP souls Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: U.S.A. Casino cash: $3628880	Damn loaded squad and about to add an All Pro Guard to the fold. Fun times. __________________ **Official TFWdemB Trivia Commisioner**
Posts: 68,981

08-23-2015, 08:51 AM	#103
Simply Red You Sweetie! Join Date: Sep 2005 Casino cash: $2021206219 VARSITY	Look - we're 2 and 0, not sure what it takes to make you all happy - I mean; we have a LEGITIMATE chance at going 4 and 0 in Preseason - and nobody even shows excitement - SO FRUSTRATING - Go CHIEFS! 22 and 0!!!
Posts: 71,691