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Old 01-21-2019, 03:22 PM  
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Dee Ford wants to be back guys!!
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:17 PM   #91
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I wouldn't say expendable, but I might say he isn't worth the $ he will demand.

It all depends on how the team is built. We have other pass rushers so do you need to pay a DL $20MM to rush the passer?

Rams don't have any real outside pass rushers so they can deal with it. You don't pay 2 OLB and a DL to do the same thing. We drafted Speaks to rush the passer, he is either Ford or Houstons replacement.

We have 2 guys who can rush the passer and not defend the run, and another guy who can do both, Houston. I say keep Ford and get another run stuffing DL.
Always take the dl passrusher. Shorter distance to the qb, harder to defend
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:17 PM   #92
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Its why they’ve lost the last 3 playoff games.

Steelers, Patriots rammed it down our throats and sustained long drives that dictated the tempo of the game in their favor and beat us. How the **** is this problem ongoing and not fixed throughout the years? Its such a ****ing shame.
Yep, pretty much
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:22 PM   #93
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Old 01-21-2019, 06:23 PM   #94
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:23 PM   #95
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The guy had 14 sacks and 8 forced fumbles.

Franchise him and tell his ass to build his core strength without pushing it (so his back will continue to strengthen and he becomes better against the run) and to stay on the right side of the bell for ****s sake.

He’s this defenses Dwight Freeney.

No way should they let him walk.
Dwight Freeney is not the kind of guy you want to be paying premium money to. Freeney was one of the main reasons why the Colts defense was as bad as it was for the entirety of Manning's tenure. If teams weren't down by two scores, the easiest way to move the ball was to run right at Freeney, because he'd almost constantly take himself right out of the play.

As Mecca alluded to, that's the problem with guys like Jones and Ford. They do one thing really well, but balanced teams will punish them for their inability to play the run. Sometimes it's not about the one sack you pick up, but the multiple times you fit in your run assignment and turn an eight yard gain into a two yard gain.

If Ford was a baseball player he'd be Adam Dunn--he's great when the homers are coming, but if they aren't he offers nothing else to the team.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:29 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
Jones is a lot like Aaron Donald

It’s just hard to have a dl be great vs the run and the pass.

I don’t know what to do
That's why you have situational players. Ford is a situational pass rusher. If you put him on the field in passing situations only he's an asset. That's also why you don't pay him. Let another team make that mistake.

Jones should probably be a strongside DE in early downs and shift inside in a four man front in passing downs.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:30 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Dwight Freeney is not the kind of guy you want to be paying premium money to. Freeney was one of the main reasons why the Colts defense was as bad as it was for the entirety of Manning's tenure. If teams weren't down by two scores, the easiest way to move the ball was to run right at Freeney, because he'd almost constantly take himself right out of the play.

As Mecca alluded to, that's the problem with guys like Jones and Ford. They do one thing really well, but balanced teams will punish them for their inability to play the run. Sometimes it's not about the one sack you pick up, but the multiple times you fit in your run assignment and turn an eight yard gain into a two yard gain.

If Ford was a baseball player he'd be Adam Dunn--he's great when the homers are coming, but if they aren't he offers nothing else to the team.
At some point you can’t just count on having to scheme guys into sacks though and you need someone who can get it themselves

I’m not sure what they’ll do here
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:31 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
That's why you have situational players. Ford is a situational pass rusher. If you put him on the field in passing situations only he's an asset. That's also why you don't pay him. Let another team make that mistake.

Jones should probably be a strongside DE in early downs and shift inside in a four man front in passing downs.
I can see that. You could make the case though that with this offense you’re going to have teams playing catch up and throwing it a lot and you’ll need pass rushers.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:36 PM   #99
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I think it would probably make more sense to let someone else pay ford and take that money to get 2 or 3 mid level guys.

Try and build as much good depth on d
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:37 PM   #100
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I can see that. You could make the case though that with this offense you’re going to have teams playing catch up and throwing it a lot and you’ll need pass rushers.
You do need pass rushers, but you shouldn't pay a one-dimensional pass rusher with durability concerns elite money. That's why it's so important to draft well. You don't have to draft a Justin Houston every other year, but if someone like K-Pass wasn't a bucket of pig shit then there's no need to pay Ford at all because you'd have his replacement for 10% of his cap hit. The Patriots are who they are in part because they never overpay for guys like Dee Ford. They wouldn't even pay Chandler Jones (which was, arguably, a mistake), who is much better than Dee Ford.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:39 PM   #101
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You do need pass rushers, but you shouldn't pay a one-dimensional pass rusher with durability concerns elite money. That's why it's so important to draft well. You don't have to draft a Justin Houston every other year, but if someone like K-Pass wasn't a bucket of pig shit then there's no need to pay Ford at all because you'd have his replacement for 10% of his cap hit. The Patriots are who they are in part because they never overpay for guys like Dee Ford. They wouldn't even pay Chandler Jones (which was, arguably, a mistake), who is much better than Dee Ford.
This is where it pays to have a defensive developer that can scheme up and develop some of that.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:40 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
You do need pass rushers, but you shouldn't pay a one-dimensional pass rusher with durability concerns elite money. That's why it's so important to draft well. You don't have to draft a Justin Houston every other year, but if someone like K-Pass wasn't a bucket of pig shit then there's no need to pay Ford at all because you'd have his replacement for 10% of his cap hit. The Patriots are who they are in part because they never overpay for guys like Dee Ford. They wouldn't even pay Chandler Jones (which was, arguably, a mistake), who is much better than Dee Ford.
While I do agree,

I just wanna say, I’ll bet if Dee Ford was on the Pats last night and lined up off sides like that; Belicheck would’ve been like **** you, you’re out the door! The Chiefs are more like “yeah we’ll consider signing you.” Thats the difference between the Patriots and the Chiefs.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:45 PM   #103
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I think it would probably make more sense to let someone else pay ford and take that money to get 2 or 3 mid level guys.

Try and build as much good depth on d
Consider it this way:

Would you rather have

A) A great speed rusher who can't defend the run at all

or

B) An excellent defensive back

The premium placed on pass rushers actually makes a Dee Ford-type player overvalued in this instance. He'll get paid like a great player because of the sack numbers, but those don't tell the whole story of who he is.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:46 PM   #104
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Fords ONLY real knock is health, you seem to fail to remember he won a few games for us this season and kept us in several others we won. 8 forced fumbles to go with the sacks?

Are you shitting me you want to throw that to the curb?

Jones is more expendable IMO.

They pulled Ford last night and put in Speaks to defend the run. IMO if you are going to pay a OLB $16 million he better do it all and not come off the field.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:48 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Consider it this way:

Would you rather have

A) A great speed rusher who can't defend the run at all

or

B) An excellent defensive back

The premium placed on pass rushers actually makes a Dee Ford-type player overvalued in this instance. He'll get paid like a great player because of the sack numbers, but those don't tell the whole story of who he is.
That’s for sure

It seems defense is trending even more now than ever before into the fact that you have to have at the very least adequate nfl starters everywhere.

Well coached fundamental and what not but when I look at the best defenses around the league, they have a whole slew of good players and not the 3 great and 8 not
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