Chiefs Without Gun this is a 4-12 Team - Page 8

KCJohnny · 01-06-2007, 11:58 PM

Herm came in and achieved "balance". That's what you could say after having a D suck so bad the past 5 years that getting under 300 points (we didn't) would have been a monumental achievement. But in the name of "balance" we took the league's best offense and demoted it to a predictable, 1-dimensional cliche that dropped SIXTEEN places in ranking and performed worse than almost any offense in NFL playoff history (126 yards of total offense).

I think without Gun trying to make shinola out of $#!+ with Herm's insistance on Cover 2, this team is horrible. The Colts game shows that the testicles are on D, and that is NOT because Herm "changed the focus". If DV was here, we'd be 14-2 and laughing at the Colts because he kept Gun. That said, this team had better realize that flushing DV's O leaves not much in its place. Thank God for Gun, because without him and these over-acheivers, this team is a waste of talent. Hopefully Gun stays and keeps this team at least semi-competitive.

milkman · 01-07-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Any team that has a great Defense has GREAT players. Bears, have Great players. Dolphins have Great players. Ravens? again, Great players. Chiefs? we dont have that. Guntharr had to come in here with Vermeils garbage and grab a few players in free agency to try to get a lil balance of talent on the team.

This team has 2 possible players that can become great that are young. Allen and DJ. Hali i think will be good, but he wont ever be a great players. Maybe Page and Pollard have a chance, we just havent seen that much of them on Defense. Not like we have seen Allen and DJ.

Tell me about alll those great players on the Philly defense over the years under Jimmy Johnson.

That defense has always been better than the sum of it's parts because JJ maximizes the talent he has to work with.

He has had a couple of outstanding players, but he has never been loaded.

The same could be said of the talent in Carolina.
Couple of outstanding players again, but again better than the sum of the parts.

And there is, of course, the Patriots this decade.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 01-07-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Tell me about alll those great players on the Philly defense over the years under Jimmy Johnson.

That defense has always been better than the sum of it's parts because JJ maximizes the talent he has to work with.

He has had a couple of outstanding players, but he has never been loaded.

The same could be said of the talent in Carolina.
Couple of outstanding players again, but again better than the sum of the parts.

And there is, of course, the Patriots this decade.

Blitzing is bad, it's a cover up for a lack of talent/htismaqe

kcxiv · 01-07-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

Blitzing is bad, it's a cover up for a lack of talent/htismaqe

Yep, every coach will tell ya they rather never blitz and hope their front 4 can get to the QB like the Bears.

kcxiv · 01-07-2007, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hummus' Jenkins

Blitzing is bad, it's a cover up for a lack of talent/htismaqe

Yep, every coach will tell ya they rather never blitz and hope their front 4 can get to the QB like the Bears.

BLitzing is what desperate teams do. Then again, it doesnt matter how you get to the QB as long as you do.

Also, for some of New Englands runs, they had Bruschi, Mcginist. Laywer Milloy. Ty Law, Rodney Harrision. Them are some pretty damn good players in their prime.

KCJohnny · 01-07-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Any team that has a great Defense has GREAT players. Bears, have Great players. Dolphins have Great players. Ravens? again, Great players. Chiefs? we dont have that. Guntharr had to come in here with Vermeils garbage and grab a few players in free agency to try to get a lil balance of talent on the team.

This team has 2 possible players that can become great that are young. Allen and DJ. Hali i think will be good, but he wont ever be a great players. Maybe Page and Pollard have a chance, we just havent seen that much of them on Defense. Not like we have seen Allen and DJ.

I think that's fair. I think people forget just how bad this defense was 2002-2004. Biblical proportions. Very, very bad.

I admit I love Gun, tho not for the personal reasons some wags like to chide me about. I just like his defenses over the years. He is hyper agressive. My gosh, Herm is laid back, Solari is a rookie OC, without SOMEBODY fired up on this staff, we don't have much attitude. You sure as hell didn't haer any defensive players talking about how things need to change in THEIR scheme...

milkman · 01-07-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcxiv

Yep, every coach will tell ya they rather never blitz and hope their front 4 can get to the QB like the Bears.

BLitzing is what desperate teams do. Then again, it doesnt matter how you get to the QB as long as you do.

Also, for some of New Englands runs, they had Bruschi, Mcginist. Laywer Milloy. Ty Law, Rodney Harrision. Them are some pretty damn good players in their prime.

And they also played pretty solid defense with Randall Gay and Troy Brown in their secondary.

penchief · 01-08-2007, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

I think that's fair. I think people forget just how bad this defense was 2002-2004. Biblical proportions. Very, very bad.

I admit I love Gun, tho not for the personal reasons some wags like to chide me about. I just like his defenses over the years. He is hyper agressive. My gosh, Herm is laid back, Solari is a rookie OC, without SOMEBODY fired up on this staff, we don't have much attitude. You sure as hell didn't haer any defensive players talking about how things need to change in THEIR scheme...

He's never had a good defense that didn't consist of Derrick Thomas, Neil Smith, Dale Carter, or James Hasty. I agree that it takes good players but I also think it takes a good defensive coordinator and I don't think Gunther is a good one. I think this is Herman Edwards' defense, not Gunther's. I think Gunther's job is to implement Herm's defense.

Hali is the only regular other than Law (mediocre season) and the journeymen DTs (Reed & Edwards) that is new to this defense. Page has great potential but as far as this season goes his contributions have been sometimes spectacular but overall modest. The players that Gunther brought in have either been busts or are already gone (Siavvi, Bell, etc.)

I think the best thing that could happen to this team is a new offensive coordinator. If Herm were not a defensive-minded coach we'd need a new defensive coordinator, too. I know that both Peterson and Edwards are loyal to Gunther and I don't think Cunningham has the menatality to resign if he thought he wasn't up to the task. So I think we're stuck with him. He's fiery and he might make a good linebackers coach but I don't think he's a good defensive coordinator.

The difference between this year's defense and last year's defense is Herman Edwards, the 2006 draft, a couple of journeyman DTs, and the new scheme, all of which are Edward's doing. Blitz happy Gunther only knows how to telegraph blitzes. When that doesn't work then he's lost, IMO.

KCJohnny · 01-08-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penchief

Blitz happy Gunther only knows how to telegraph blitzes. When that doesn't work then he's lost, IMO.

This has become the new en vogue cliche.
This D gave up the fewest points since 1999. Its not great, but its good and getting better.

**Iowanian** · 01-08-2007, 10:37 AM

This wasn't Gunther's scheme.

Did you happen to see how effective Gunther's scheme was LAST season?

KCJohnny · 01-08-2007, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iowanian

This wasn't Gunther's scheme.

Did you happen to see how effective Gunther's scheme was LAST season?

Well, we won 10 games with a pretty weak roster.

**Iowanian** · 01-08-2007, 10:52 AM

Yeah....that had nothing to do with teh offense putting up 42 points per game....and sometimes giving up 45

Chiefnj · 01-08-2007, 10:54 AM

Gunther can coach a good defense if you surround him with very good talent.

|Zach| · 01-08-2007, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

This has become the new en vogue cliche.
This D gave up the fewest points since 1999. Its not great, but its good and getting better.

Your welcome,

Herm Edwards.

htismaqe · 01-08-2007, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Tell me about alll those great players on the Philly defense over the years under Jimmy Johnson.

That defense has always been better than the sum of it's parts because JJ maximizes the talent he has to work with.

He has had a couple of outstanding players, but he has never been loaded.

The same could be said of the talent in Carolina.
Couple of outstanding players again, but again better than the sum of the parts.

And there is, of course, the Patriots this decade.

Carolina plays zone defense. They don't blitz like Philly does at all.

KCJohnny · 01-08-2007, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj

Gunther can coach a good defense if you surround him with very good talent.

Please, provide us with the name of a DC that can use the Chiefs 2005 roster and dominate opponents.

01-06-2007, 11:58 PM
KCJohnny Blind, deceived homer Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Maryland, USA Casino cash: $10004900	Without Gun this is a 4-12 Team Herm came in and achieved "balance". That's what you could say after having a D suck so bad the past 5 years that getting under 300 points (we didn't) would have been a monumental achievement. But in the name of "balance" we took the league's best offense and demoted it to a predictable, 1-dimensional cliche that dropped SIXTEEN places in ranking and performed worse than almost any offense in NFL playoff history (126 yards of total offense). I think without Gun trying to make shinola out of $#!+ with Herm's insistance on Cover 2, this team is horrible. The Colts game shows that the testicles are on D, and that is NOT because Herm "changed the focus". If DV was here, we'd be 14-2 and laughing at the Colts because he kept Gun. That said, this team had better realize that flushing DV's O leaves not much in its place. Thank God for Gun, because without him and these over-acheivers, this team is a waste of talent. Hopefully Gun stays and keeps this team at least semi-competitive.
Posts: 6,347

01-08-2007, 10:37 AM	#114
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1638454	This wasn't Gunther's scheme. Did you happen to see how effective Gunther's scheme was LAST season?
Posts: 62,946

01-08-2007, 10:52 AM	#116
Iowanian Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Utopia Casino cash: $1638454	Yeah....that had nothing to do with teh offense putting up 42 points per game....and sometimes giving up 45
Posts: 62,946

01-08-2007, 10:54 AM	#117
Chiefnj MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Willis, Harris and Davis. Casino cash: $10004900	Gunther can coach a good defense if you surround him with very good talent. __________________ "I always tell (the assistant coaches), 'Make it simple, 'cause I'm stupid,'" Edwards said. "This ain't computer football." Herm Edwards, 3-20-07 Q: Herm, back on December 25th you were asked if Trent Green was your starter going into next season and you said, ‘yeah, why wouldn’t he be?’ Have you changed your mind on that? EDWARDS: No, I have not.” (1-11-07)
Posts: 6,811