Kelce cementing his HOF status

[RunKC]

Fastest TE in history to get 450 receptions and 6,000 yards. Needs 167 more to get 1,000 yards and become the first TE in history to get 1,000 receiving yards in 4 straight years.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I said witten was a more gifted blocker. And he was.

And what in the actual hell does that have to do with their athleticism? Was Jason Dunn a superior athlete to Travis Kelce?

Wait - I've gone one. And god help me I think I know the answer.

Blake Bell. Please please PLEASE tell me you're not going to try to argue that Blake Bell is a superior athlete to Travis Kelce because he timed well and can block his ass off.

[jd1020]

Acting like you have to "prop up" a guy who has the most 1,000 yard seasons for the position, the most 100+ reception seasons for the position, and the record for the most receiving yards in a season for the position, is the single dumbest argument anyone could make.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Blocking comes up in GOAT conversations if you are talking about Olinemen, not TEs. No one remembers who the greatest TEs are based on blocking. That’s like judging GOAT QBs based off of their play action pass ability. How good of a blocker was Jerry Rice? No one knows or cares. History will look back on Kelce and see one of if not the greatest TE to ever suit up.

In his prime, Jerry Rice was considered the best blocking WR of his era and all time. It was brought up in just about every televised game he ever played.

[Megatron96]

It's kind of funny looking at this argument from outside. I mean, there was a time not all that long ago when TEs were valued principally for their blocking skills. Catching the ball was secondary for TEs before TG, who singlehandedly initiated a sea change in how TEs were viewed, used, and ultimately drafted.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

It's kind of funny looking at this argument from outside. I mean, there was a time not all that long ago when TEs were valued principally for their blocking skills. Catching the ball was secondary for TEs before TG, who singlehandedly initiated a sea change in how TEs were viewed, used, and ultimately drafted.

Kellen Winslow was probably the guy who started that ball rolling. Todd Christensen was also doing the H-Back sort of thing before TG.

And I think we have to grudgingly acknowledge that Shannon Sharpe from 1993 to 1997 was every bit of what Tony G was and Tony didn't really break out until 2000.

Hard to say Tony really reset anything. He was the gold standard, but he wasn't the first.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

In his prime, Jerry Rice was considered the best blocking WR of his era and all time. It was brought up in just about every televised game he ever played.

Did they bring that up when he was inducted into the HOF? Something like listing his stats and then adding a blurb about how amazing of a blocker he was?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Blocking comes up in GOAT conversations if you are talking about Olinemen, not TEs. No one remembers who the greatest TEs are based on blocking. That’s like judging GOAT QBs based off of their play action pass ability. How good of a blocker was Jerry Rice? No one knows or cares. History will look back on Kelce and see one of if not the greatest TE to ever suit up.

Blocking is way more of an important consideration for a tight end. Of course a pure blocker is not going to be considered GOAT. But with witten you have an exceptional blocker who was also a very good receiver (no, I’m not suggesting he’s anywhere near kelce overall). But with gronk you have an exceptional receiver who was also a dominant blocker. It absolutely matters if you’re talking best of the best of the best .

[chiefzilla1501]

For anyone suggesting blocking doesn’t matter, there is going to be lots of debate in the coming years about who the true GOAT is at TE. And it won’t be because of receiving.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

For anyone suggesting blocking doesn’t matter, there is going to be lots of debate in the coming years about who the true GOAT is at TE. And it won’t be because of receiving.

Damn dude you just can’t figure out when to stop and keep
doubling down on wrong. Your argument sucks stop trying to sell it.

First rule of holes, when you are in one stop digging.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Kellen Winslow was probably the guy who started that ball rolling. Todd Christensen was also doing the H-Back sort of thing before TG.

And I think we have to grudgingly acknowledge that Shannon Sharpe from 1993 to 1997 was every bit of what Tony G was and Tony didn't really break out until 2000.

Hard to say Tony really reset anything. He was the gold standard, but he wasn't the first.

All true. Forgot about Winslow. Kind of before my time.

I watched Sharpe and TG; I believe that TG was better, though Sharpe was probably faster.

My point about TG resetting the position had more to do with how offenses were built by the time he passed his prime; in Sharpe's time TEs still weren't as highly valued by the NFL, not yet. RBs in general wee more highly valued than TEs then.

He was valued very highly by DEN, but even by the Broncos they neglected to use him as a primary target in the RZ, often preferring to either run the ball or find a WR instead fairly often. As such he only had 5 seasons out of 14 where he averaged more than 55 yds/game, while Kelce only has 2 seasons of less than 55 yds/game so far in his career. Sharpe has just 7 seasons being targeted more than 100 times/season, Kelce has just one season in his career being targeted less than 100 times. Kelce already has nearly 100 more catches for 1st downs than Sharpe.

And so on. Just illustrating that TEs, even on a (for that era) pass-happy DEN team, weren't used the way receiving TEs are used today. So if we can agree that TG didn't start the receiving TE trend, he was the bridge between the old school use of TEs vs. the modern era? That feels more accurate.

Whatever, at some point it's almost semantics. Tony is the gold standard of TEs, mostly for his receiving abilities, but he was also just about the most complete TE in the modern era, able to do a lot more than just catch contested balls thrown almost entirely by JAG QBs over his career. If he'd had his prime years with an elite QB, who knows how many more yards, TDs, etc. he would've had. It's actually more impressive that he accomplished everything that he did n spite of the fact that his QBs were mostly scrubs.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Did they bring that up when he was inducted into the HOF? Something like listing his stats and then adding a blurb about how amazing of a blocker he was?

Jerry did in his speech, iirc. Someone did. Maybe it was one of the commentators. Don't believe a particular stat was brought up though it could've happened.

Not sure why this is an emotional issue for you. I related an indisputable fact, nothing more.

And part of a TEs responsibilities is blocking. In fact, TEs that don't/won't block are not long in the NFL. See Jimmy Graham as the most recent and visible example. He specifically declined to block after leaving NO and became a non-factor as any kind of offensive weapon immediately after.

[JohnnyHammersticks]

Kelce (still) gets from point A to point B like an elite WR. He’s not 4.3 in 40 yd dash terms, but he’s 4.3 in functional football route running terms. On our first TD he got from the 10 yd line into the end zone as fast as anyone in the game could have. He took the “as-the-crow-flies” route, and I’m not sure anyone else playing the game right now could’ve done that the way he did it.

If that’s not elite, freakish athleticism then I don’t know what is. From a man-beast who turns 33 years old in two days and might have the best personality in the history of the NFL.

Everyone should savor every play of the rest of his career, because he is an irreplaceable L E G E N D.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Jerry did in his speech, iirc. Someone did. Maybe it was one of the commentators. Don't believe a particular stat was brought up though it could've happened.

Not sure why this is an emotional issue for you. I related an indisputable fact, nothing more.

And part of a TEs responsibilities is blocking. In fact, TEs that don't/won't block are not long in the NFL. See Jimmy Graham as the most recent and visible example. He specifically declined to block after leaving NO and became a non-factor as any kind of offensive weapon immediately after.

It’s not really emotional for me. If it came out as such my apologies. I don’t disagree that blocking is important for TEs, just that when deciding on the GOAT or not blocking won’t be the factor that it’s being made out to be.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Kellen Winslow was probably the guy who started that ball rolling. Todd Christensen was also doing the H-Back sort of thing before TG.

And I think we have to grudgingly acknowledge that Shannon Sharpe from 1993 to 1997 was every bit of what Tony G was and Tony didn't really break out until 2000.

Hard to say Tony really reset anything. He was the gold standard, but he wasn't the first.

Ditka helped as well.

[scho63]

Kelce makes it look effortless. He is so dialed in it's incredible.

I think he has another 4-5 years left.