Chiefs Jones vs. 1st Rounder + $20m - Page 8

**DaFace** · 02-18-2020, 11:08 AM

Obviously this is going to be a key discussion this offseason. On The Athletic's podcast (Time's Ours), Nate Taylor said that he's heard that there are multiple teams out there who would give us a 1st round pick for Jones (assuming we tag and trade him), and possibly more than that.

So just to lay out a simplified version of the options:

Option 1:
Chris Jones (probably around $20m per year)

Option 2:
1st round draft pick (cheap for 4-5 years)
$20m worth of other players

For context on how much other players might cost based on recent free agents we've signed:
Clark - $21m
Mathieu - $14m
Hitchens - $9m
Schwartz - $8m
Okafor - $6m

So...which way do we go?

**DaFace** · 02-18-2020, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

that's a hell nah.

Nelson is a beast of a G, but he's still just a G. You don't win playoff games with difference makers on the OL.

Kinda sorta agree. I'm not 100% convinced we win the Super Bowl with Wylie at LG though.

Chief Roundup · 02-18-2020, 04:40 PM

Name one person off of that vaunted 49er DL, other than Nick Bosa, that you would rather have than Jones. Those guys are all top 1st round draft picks.

Hoover · 02-18-2020, 04:41 PM

Nelson has two cheap years left and his 5th year option. So yeah, I'd take him and 3rd.

Its the type of player I'd love to try and land.

**DaFace** · 02-18-2020, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Roundup

Name one person off of that vaunted 49er DL, other than Nick Bosa, that you would rather have than Jones. Those guys are all top 1st round draft picks.

I'm not sure this is the argument you think it is. The 49ers ENTIRE STARTING DL has a total average salary of about what it would cost to keep Jones. So if you're asking me if I could trade Jones for the 49ers DL, the answer is yes in an instant. Otherwise, I'd take Buckner and $15m to spend on other players, yes.

I just think the piece that everyone always ignores in discussions like this is that the salary BUYS OTHER PLAYERS, so any discussion of what you would trade should also consider the difference in cap hit and what else we might be able to do with it.

duncan_idaho · 02-18-2020, 04:49 PM

If Nelson was a top 5 LT or RT, I could see it. That's value on par with a premium pass rusher.

A freaking guard? No way.

**DaFace** · 02-18-2020, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

If Nelson was a top 5 LT or RT, I could see it. That's value on par with a premium pass rusher.

A freaking guard? No way.

...a freaking guard plus $15m to spend on other players.

Chief Northman · 02-18-2020, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForeverIowan

Majority of your list is positions we have locked up for foreseeable future (safety, offensive tackle, WR (if we resign Watkins as I suggested)). Makes no sense.

I draft for BPA, not need - especially Round 1.

Safety? - you think Sorenson merits being a full time starter? You know Thornhill’s timetable for return?

Corner? - we only have two under contract

RB? - you like the depth behind Williams, let alone believe he is an every down back that can endure 16 games + playoffs? Swift is a perfect weapon for a Reid offense.

Receiver? - Will Watkins be a Chief let alone Robinson? Is Hardman a legit contributor this soon given the limitations in his route running?

Tackle? - Fisher and Schwartz are not getting any younger, and Fisher’s cost is becoming concerning.

**dirk digler** · 02-18-2020, 05:08 PM

Fletcher Cox and Grady Jarrett are the highest paid DT's according to over the cap and Cox is going to have a $22 million cap hit the next 3 seasons.

Looking at Jarrett's contract the first 2 years (2019 and 2020) his cap number is low, like $11-12 million and after that it goes up. I imagine that is what Jones contract will be like so I say sign him because the new CBA and TV deals will massively increase the salary cap in the next 1-2 years.

saphojunkie · 02-18-2020, 05:17 PM

Holy shit that's a lot of people who'd keep Jones. What a terrible ****ing idea.

Tag and trade Jones is the top 5 options.

Chief Roundup · 02-18-2020, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

I'm not sure this is the argument you think it is. The 49ers ENTIRE STARTING DL has a total average salary of about what it would cost to keep Jones. So if you're asking me if I could trade Jones for the 49ers DL, the answer is yes in an instant. Otherwise, I'd take Buckner and $15m to spend on other players, yes.

I just think the piece that everyone always ignores in discussions like this is that the salary BUYS OTHER PLAYERS, so any discussion of what you would trade should also consider the difference in cap hit and what else we might be able to do with it.

You are missing the point, which is that none of those players are as good/dominate as Jones. And we have no idea if a 1st round draft pick is going to be anywhere as good as Jones.
Sure you can get other players for that money difference. You can get players like Hitchens.

IowaHawkeyeChief · 02-18-2020, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I don't really want to compare things to the Pats. That was a one off thing that won't happen again. Don't hold this current Chiefs regime up to that to measure success.

If you win multiple SB's, you're in a class with very few. 6 just isn't gonna happen.

Defeatist

saphojunkie · 02-18-2020, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58-4ever

I am wondering if you all would deal Chris Jones for Quenton Nelson and a 3rd round pick?

uh... yes

saphojunkie · 02-18-2020, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

If Nelson was a top 5 LT or RT, I could see it. That's value on par with a premium pass rusher.

A freaking guard? No way.

I don't get the logic in this thread.

"CHIRS JONES IS A MUST SIGN! INTERIOR PASS RUSH IS THE MOST VALUABLE COMMODITY!"

Would you trade him for the best interior OL in the league to stop interior pass rush on your Super Bowl MVP quarterback?

"STOPPING THE INTERIOR PASS RUSH IS MEANINGLESS!"

IowaHawkeyeChief · 02-18-2020, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

Kinda sorta agree. I'm not 100% convinced we win the Super Bowl with Wylie at LG though.

Also Rankin looked solid before his injury

saphojunkie · 02-18-2020, 05:35 PM

Protecting Mahomes is priority #1. Period.

Here is how I see it:

Chris Jones - elite value as interior pass rusher.

Chiefs defense - uses stunts to create interior pass rush, so there is no guarantee Jones is even RUSHING from the interior.

if creating interior pass rush is the fastest way to success against the pass for defenses, then stopping that interior rush is the fastest way to success for the offense. FACT: If you keep Mahomes protected, he will succeed against every single defense.

The goal for this offseason is not to keep Chris Jones. It is to use Chris Jones to help the team win. If you cannot get good enough value in a trade and decide to sign him, so be it. But absolutely, positively, the best way to use Chris Jones is as a commodity to be traded.

With a simple first and third, you can land a starting CB and OL. With the cap space, you can land more speed on defense, depth at linebacker, and likely a swing OL.

That's not counting what you can do with your own first rounder this year. Filling ONE position with $20M is not how this team wins long term. Filling FOUR starting positions by letting go of one is how you keep your roster young, cheap, healthy, and talented.

Bye, Chris. Thank you for the super bowl, and thank you in advance for the draft capital and cap room.

View Poll Results: What's your preference?
Chris Jones	94	54.34%
1st round draft pick + $20m of other players	74	42.77%
Some other option I will describe in the thread	3	1.73%
Polls are fun!	2	1.16%
Voters: 173. You may not vote on this poll

02-18-2020, 11:08 AM
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $-1863101	Jones vs. 1st Rounder + $20m Obviously this is going to be a key discussion this offseason. On The Athletic's podcast (Time's Ours), Nate Taylor said that he's heard that there are multiple teams out there who would give us a 1st round pick for Jones (assuming we tag and trade him), and possibly more than that. So just to lay out a simplified version of the options: Option 1: Chris Jones (probably around $20m per year) Option 2: 1st round draft pick (cheap for 4-5 years) $20m worth of other players For context on how much other players might cost based on recent free agents we've signed: Clark - $21m Mathieu - $14m Hitchens - $9m Schwartz - $8m Okafor - $6m So...which way do we go?
Posts: 53,153

02-18-2020, 04:40 PM	#107
Chief Roundup Admitted Planet Junky Join Date: Oct 2000 Casino cash: $-1568373	Name one person off of that vaunted 49er DL, other than Nick Bosa, that you would rather have than Jones. Those guys are all top 1st round draft picks. __________________ Fanaticism is nowhere. There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
Posts: 19,565

02-18-2020, 04:41 PM	#108
Hoover Rufus Dawes Jr. Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $-2131821	Nelson has two cheap years left and his 5th year option. So yeah, I'd take him and 3rd. Its the type of player I'd love to try and land.
Posts: 18,023

02-18-2020, 04:49 PM	#110
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $-2109692	If Nelson was a top 5 LT or RT, I could see it. That's value on par with a premium pass rusher. A freaking guard? No way. __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 22,440

02-18-2020, 05:08 PM	#113
dirk digler Please squeeze Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $134644	Fletcher Cox and Grady Jarrett are the highest paid DT's according to over the cap and Cox is going to have a $22 million cap hit the next 3 seasons. Looking at Jarrett's contract the first 2 years (2019 and 2020) his cap number is low, like $11-12 million and after that it goes up. I imagine that is what Jones contract will be like so I say sign him because the new CBA and TV deals will massively increase the salary cap in the next 1-2 years.
Posts: 67,116

02-18-2020, 05:17 PM	#114
saphojunkie MVP Join Date: Aug 2011 Casino cash: $2186550	Holy shit that's a lot of people who'd keep Jones. What a terrible ****ing idea. Tag and trade Jones is the top 5 options.
Posts: 12,936	1 1

02-18-2020, 05:35 PM	#120
saphojunkie MVP Join Date: Aug 2011 Casino cash: $2186550	Protecting Mahomes is priority #1. Period. Here is how I see it: Chris Jones - elite value as interior pass rusher. Chiefs defense - uses stunts to create interior pass rush, so there is no guarantee Jones is even RUSHING from the interior. if creating interior pass rush is the fastest way to success against the pass for defenses, then stopping that interior rush is the fastest way to success for the offense. FACT: If you keep Mahomes protected, he will succeed against every single defense. The goal for this offseason is not to keep Chris Jones. It is to use Chris Jones to help the team win. If you cannot get good enough value in a trade and decide to sign him, so be it. But absolutely, positively, the best way to use Chris Jones is as a commodity to be traded. With a simple first and third, you can land a starting CB and OL. With the cap space, you can land more speed on defense, depth at linebacker, and likely a swing OL. That's not counting what you can do with your own first rounder this year. Filling ONE position with $20M is not how this team wins long term. Filling FOUR starting positions by letting go of one is how you keep your roster young, cheap, healthy, and talented. Bye, Chris. Thank you for the super bowl, and thank you in advance for the draft capital and cap room.
Posts: 12,936