All I really desire is freedom FROM religion. - No offense has been intended

[Logical]

I think some here misunderstand my intent as being a hater of people who are believers. If you have been around a long time you would have seen me defend many different religious types from the bigotry of so called Christians.

I personally believe there is a creator(s) but I also suffer from the illogical nature of the idea where did they come from?

So being as we are approaching a religious season for most religions I select this time to apologize for any hurt I may have caused any of the posters on this BB who mean well.

This is a thread not intended to stir the shit so hopefully it can stay in the Lounge.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

This is what cracks me up about this attitude in general. I call senior executives of high technology companies. Those are our clients. Occasionally you get somebody with this attitude who blasts you for calling and wasting their time. I always like to ask them how they market their product? Almost all successful companies have to invade someone's space in order to sell. Most of the companies I am calling on have extremely aggressive marketing and sales divisions. Whether that's commmercials, flyers, direct mail, phone calls or knocking on somebody's door. People who are not in sales just don't get it. If it wasn't for the sales department most people who are so offended wouldn't have their stinking jobs. There certainly wouldn't be an economy like we currently have. Sales is the most important part of any business in that it creates revenue. The rest of you all just come in on the other end of the balance sheet. Someone comes to the door I don't want to talk to the dog has usually has run them off by the time I get there. If they are still there I just don't open the door. Why this is such a big deal is beyond me.

Well if sales people are allowed to personally invade my space and home, I think there's a problem. What's the use of owning a home then? Doesn't privacy mean anything to anyone these days?

Don't people get bombarded with advertising enough? I get a sh*t ton of meaningless and worthless advertising in my mailbox everyday. I get spammed by companies selling products in which I am not interested and I'm literally overloaded with commercials when watching live sporting events (I Tivo anything else that I would normally watch on TV. Now you're going to tell me that our *economy* wouldn't be the same without endless advertising and sales people? I call Bullsh*t again.

If anything, an unsolicited salesman bothering me is NEVER going to get my business. Ever. And since when is Religion considered a business? Oh yeah, that's right. Right about 330 AD when the Non-Christian Roman Emperor decreed that everyone within the Empire is now a Christian. Politics and sales, pure and simple.

[BucEyedPea]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Well if sales people are allowed to personally invade my space and home, I think there's a problem. What's the use of owning a home then? Doesn't privacy mean anything to anyone these days?

I think the solution is simple. If its your property put a "No Trespassing" sign up. Maybe add a warning if they do. Those without such signs will be fair game.

I always told my daughter when she was 5&6 years old in her Brownie uniform selling cookies that if someone said "no" it was okay...because some will say "yes". Other than that I hid in the bushes while she knocked on each door. I can't do it at all.

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Now you're going to tell me that our *economy* wouldn't be the same without endless advertising and sales people? I call Bullsh*t again.

Yes that's what I'm telling you. If it didn't work compnaies wouldn't do it. It's really that simple. What do you do for a living?


BTW the no trespassing sign is really simple. Bottom line is you will spend the rest of your life getting bombarded with advertising and sales. It's just the way it is unless you want to move to shack in the mountains and have no TV or radio. You would still get mailers.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

I think the solution is simple. If its your property put a "No Trespassing" sign up. Maybe add a warning if they do. Those without such signs will be fair game.

I always told my daughter when she was 5&6 years old in her Brownie uniform selling cookies that if someone said "no" it was okay...because some will say "yes". Other than that I hid in the bushes while she knocked on each door. I can't do it at all.

Great, no offense but I don't know why I need to put up a No Trespassing sign in front of my $1.8 million dollar home. No trespassing should be IMPLIED.

(I apologize if the value of my home offends anyone)

[HonestChieffan]

1.8 million dollar home in Hollywood ...why dont you just pull it under a different overpass. They won't find you then.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

Yes that's what I'm telling you. If it didn't work compnaies wouldn't do it. It's really that simple. What do you do for a living?


BTW the no trespassing sign is really simple. Bottom line is you will spend the rest of your life getting bombarded with advertising and sales. It's just the way it is unless you want to move to shack in the mountains and have not TV or radio. YOu would still get mailers.

Okay, I shouldn't have included Advertising in my response. That was an error on my part. But Cold Sales Calls? Does that work on anyone?

[Chieficus]

Originally Posted by KC Kings

The biggest problem I have with Christianity is that most Christians miss the whole point. The basis of being saved is 'Belief', but since salvation is unconditional they start to think that the belief is all they need. There are multiple scriptures that talk about Faith without works that are not emphasized in the church. Christianity is not a "works based" faith, so a lot of people fail to concentrate on the works. For too many years Christians have pounded a 'Doom and Gloom' message down everybody's throat that have turned off millions of people. I grew up in the church, but as soon as I grew up I got out of it as quickly as possible. The Christians that I grew up around were hypocrits, and cared more about peoples soul than the actual person.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (Chieficus paraphrase): We're saved by grace through faith, not by works...but we're saved with part of the result that we're to do good works...

I agree that Christians need to be doing more--serving the community, feeding and clothing the needy poor, caring for the widows and orphans, picking up trash along the roadways, inviting the neighbors over for dinner or offering to watch their kids for a night, etc.... and then also share the Gospel, which does include some of the doom and gloom--we are speaking of salvation from the judment of God, devestation of sin, and the horror of hell hear...

My fear is that a lot of churches have reacted to the "soul winnin' without people serving" mentality by swining the other way: We're going to serve you but we aren't going to tell you anything that might offend you. We've gone from evangelism without service to service without evangelism when what we need is both.

The Gospel is a confrontive thing--it makes people agitated and uncomfortable at times, but if we truly believe that men and women are lost and dying in their sins, then we've got to share the reality of hell and the hope of Christ. It's as Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation..." (Romans 1:16)

Over and over I encourage my congregation to live a complete Christian life--in public and in private, in acts of humble service and in acts of concerned sharing, when going door to door and when having lunch with a friend... I think that's what we see Jesus telling us, as well as Paul, Peter, and others, and I think that's what we see in the Christian community of the early church (e.g. in the book of Acts)...

[2112]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Exactly.

I don't come to your door and try and convince you that god doesn't exist. Please return the courtesy and leave me to my eternal hell. Thanks.

I agree with that..

One time I had a Jehova witness come to my door..I attempted to close the door on him and said I wasn't interested..he put his foot in the door to stop it..I asked him..do you believe in god?he said yes..I said if you dont take your foot out of my door in 3 seconds you are going to meet him..he left after that..I hate that begging to save you crap.

[DaFace]

Disclaimer: I think this video is funny, and nothing more. It's far enough out there that it doesn't really represent either side of the argument. That being said, here's a kinda funny video of atheists going door to door:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7wOz5a6yns

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Okay, I shouldn't have included Advertising in my response. That was an error on my part. But Cold Sales Calls? Does that work on anyone?

You're kidding right? I built a whole company around it. Senior executives of high technology companies. They appreciate it too after all most of the software companies do the vast majority of their business through cold calls and a sales force. What about Real Estate? Top Real Estate agents do a ton of cold calls. I can't believe you said that. WHat do you do for a living again?

[BIG_DADDY]

Originally Posted by bill parcells

I agree with that..

One time I had a Jehova witness come to my door..I attempted to close the door on him and said I wasn't interested..he put his foot in the door to stop it..I asked him..do you believe in god?he said yes..I said if you dont take your foot out of my door in 3 seconds you are going to meet him..he left after that..I hate that begging to save you crap.

Jehova Witnesses are fun to mess with in general.

[Calcountry]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Great, no offense but I don't know why I need to put up a No Trespassing sign in front of my $1.8 million dollar home. No trespassing should be IMPLIED.

(I apologize if the value of my home offends anyone)

Nope, my buddy has one of those in Westwood, almost every single family home in the area are worth a million these days.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY

You're kidding right? I built a whole company around it. Senior executives of high technology companies. They appreciate it too after all most of the software companies do the vast majority of their business through cold calls and a sales force. What about Real Estate? Top Real Estate agents do a ton of cold calls. I can't believe you said that. WHat do you do for a living again?

Well, good for you. I don't appreciate cold calls in any way, shape or form. As for what I do for a living, it's been well documented here that I worked for Universal & Paramount/Viacom for 10 years. My wife and I also have an extremely successful internet business that does not include cold calling. As for my current occupation, I prefer to decline *advertising* that at present.

But let me get this straight: You equate cold calls for real estate and software the same as organized religion?

[slappyhappy]

Most religions talk about being open minded. Open enough to embrace their faith. But once you get to the point where it is a belief and a faith, then are you not closed to other possiblities and beliefs by then?

I'm not into organized religion because I believe this limits your thinking. You get to the point of believing in what religious techings has written into you rather than instinct.

God says "thou shall not kill" right? What has this to say for war? More wars have been started because of religious beliefs then any other political driven war. Muslims are killing Muslims in Iraq. The Catholic Crusades murdered millions.

I guess I just can't understand the closed thinking that rides along with religions, makes no sense to me.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by KC Kings

I don't knock on a lot of doors, but I am glad you weren't behind the few that I have knocked on!

A couple of years ago Time magazine took a poll, and it said that 20% of non-church goers would have gone to church on Easter Sunday if somebody would have invited them. We have a nice Easter service, and our pastor challenged us to invite 20 people to church by giving them a professionally printed invitation. I was reluctant to participate, but we took some baggies, filled them up with Easter candy and put an invitation in them. I am 6'1", 250 with facial hair and tatoos so I was afraid that some people would be afraid to open their doors so I took my kids with me. We knocked on 20 doors, told them that we go to a great church and invited them to come on Easter Sunday, and walked away. At least half of them continued the converstation by asking where our church was or by thanking us for the candy. Only one guy appeared not to be pleased by the disturbance, but I think the candy made up for it.

It's not like I'd automatically smear poo in your face and slam the door, especially if you're 6'1" with tatoos. I'm not quite as much of a jackass in person as I am here, and one of the things that was effectively beat into me as a child was being courteous to strangers. Salespeople generally get a very firm (but somewhat polite) NOT INTERESTED and the door. I'd likely listen to your pitch, thank you for the invitation and politely decline.

It's when people don't go away after this that the problems start.

But still, I'd just prefer to be left the hell alone. I know where the churches are; if I feel compelled to get right with the Lord, I don't need directions.

Luckily, we don't get alot of door-to-door people in my neighborhood. I'm in a condo community on the fringe of Naperville, effectively cut off from the main part of the town and certainly looked down upon by the well-to-do snobs who live in the big houses, who probably don't want me in their churches in the first place.