Football To the Herm haters. - Page 9

kcbubb · 07-29-2009, 11:37 AM

I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe.

Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around.

-First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season.

-The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense.

-Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up.

-Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs.

-The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players:

1. Aaron Curry
2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.)
3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G.
4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.)
5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.)
6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh)
7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner)
7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT)
7. Ryan Succop K

And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen.

Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.

chiefzilla1501 · 07-29-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

Herm is a really horrendous coach that talks a big game.

I think zilla is trying to make the point that Herm Edwards was in a no win situation. He was left with no young core pieces and a GM who did not want to rebuild. That's Herms fault for taking the job seeing as he knew what he was getting himself into.

But at the same time I see the point he took over an aging declining team and wanted to build through the draft when you change styles to that degree there will be some very bad years.

You hit the nail completely on the head.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Herm Edwards will never be a head coach in the NFL again. Do you think you're more versed on the subject than every NFL GM out there?

You should probably never say never considering some of the guys that have gotten another job over the years.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You hit the nail completely on the head.

The thing that gets me is good or bad coach the think that prevails most of all is talent.

The Chiefs are still one of the poorest talented teams in the league so when I see some people saying the Chiefs will win 8 games because of Haley I want to know what they're smoking.

chiefzilla1501 · 07-29-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Herm Edwards will never be a head coach in the NFL again. Do you think you're more versed on the subject than every NFL GM out there?

You say that statement as if it was a direct fact. Nevermind that he was a lot more respected around the league than he was by the fans. Clark Hunt was quick to trash Peterson, but very reluctant to get rid of Herm. And even though he gave Pioli complete license to hire and fire, even Pioli took his time on firing him. I believe Herm is a lot more respected around the league than you like to believe.

**luv** · 07-29-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The thing that gets me is good or bad coach the think that prevails most of all is talent.

The Chiefs are still one of the poorest talented teams in the league so when I see some people saying the Chiefs will win 8 games because of Haley I want to know what they're smoking.

I'd like to think 6-10.

**Skip Towne** · 07-29-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Herm Edwards will never be a head coach in the NFL again. Do you think you're more versed on the subject than every NFL GM out there?

I haven't noticed anyone trying to snap him up. Peterson wasn't very good but other coaches managed to win under him. Not Herm. Clark had to fire both of them to prevent mass exodus from Arrowhead.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv

I'd like to think 6-10.

I think 6 is a best case scenario at this point, they have a harder schedule this year than they did last year.

Otter · 07-29-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You say that statement as if it was a direct fact. Nevermind that he was a lot more respected around the league than he was by the fans. Clark Hunt was quick to trash Peterson, but very reluctant to get rid of Herm. And even though he gave Pioli complete license to hire and fire, even Pioli took his time on firing him. I believe Herm is a lot more respected around the league than you like to believe.

Liked and respected are two very different feelings when it comes to business. Please don't confuse the two.

You didn't answer the question.

**The Franchise** · 07-29-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I think 6 is a best case scenario at this point, they have a harder schedule this year than they did last year.

I'm going 4-12.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Liked and respected are two very different feelings when it comes to business. Please don't confuse the two.

You didn't answer the question.

John Gruden doesn't have a coaching job right now, I'm pretty sure he's a better coach than several guys that have them.

**luv** · 07-29-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I think 6 is a best case scenario at this point, they have a harder schedule this year than they did last year.

I'd just like to say thank you for responding to me in this thread and not just overlooking me.

Anyway, I'd love to think that the two Raiders and two Broncos games will be ours. Maybe San Diego at home. Not really sure about the other one, but luck has to come in somewhere.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 07-29-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pestilence

I'm going 4-12.

Oakland once, Denver once, and who else?

chiefzilla1501 · 07-29-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

The thing that gets me is good or bad coach the think that prevails most of all is talent.

The Chiefs are still one of the poorest talented teams in the league so when I see some people saying the Chiefs will win 8 games because of Haley I want to know what they're smoking.

True. But I thought Herm at least got the ball moving on the right track. Having a playoff-talented team is both about having starters and depth. And I think he brought in some real good starters like Bowe, Dorsey, Albert, Flowers, Carr, Page... very arguably Pollard, and some real good quality depth in Tyler, McBride, Charles, Hali, and maybe a few others within time. Not too bad, given that he was given practically no free agency money to work with and considering that he started completely from scratch. I think had we had a 4-3 coach come in in 2009, he would have had a really solid foundation to work with.

But again, that's only on the personnel side. I agree completely that he would have never been a good enough executional coach to get those guys to consistently win a lot of games.

chiefzilla1501 · 07-29-2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otter

Liked and respected are two very different feelings when it comes to business. Please don't confuse the two.

You didn't answer the question.

How do you want me to answer the question? He's working for a TV network that gives him a cooshy job and is only one year removed from being in the NFL. Your speculation that he's not respected in the NFL is just as worthless as my speculation that he was. To claim that he's not respected and will never get a job in the NFL again is completely unproveable.

Mecca · 07-29-2009, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv

I'd just like to say thank you for responding to me in this thread and not just overlooking me.

Anyway, I'd love to think that the two Raiders and two Broncos games will be ours. Maybe San Diego at home. Not really sure about the other one, but luck has to come in somewhere.

I will never pick them to beat Denver in Denver till I see it happen...just the same as there's no way I'm picking them to beat the Chargers.

Cleveland is winnable..I expect them to get waxed by the entire NFC East...

07-29-2009, 11:37 AM
kcbubb Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $5166719	To the Herm haters. I'm tired of all the blame going to Herm. Yes, Herm had his share of blunders but the amount of hate that he gets is ridiculous. The biggest mistake that Herm made was underestimating the impact of Jared Allen. And I did too at the time. In 2007, the Chiefs almost had a top 10 defense despite their terrible offense. We know what happened in 2008. But we are quick to forget the defense of 2007. I'm not saying the Herm was a great coach, but he is not as bad as some here believe. Just to irritate you, lets take a look at what might have been if Herm had stuck around. -First the acquisition of Cassell never happens. Herm sticks with Thigpen and Gailey runs the system that worked well in the latter half of the season. -The switch to the 3-4 never happens and the Chiefs continue to run a 4-3 defense. -Most likely, no notable free agents are picked up. -Tony Gonzalez remains with the Chiefs. -The draft rolls around and Herm takes the safe route as usual and picks the following players: 1. Aaron Curry 2. Everette Brown (Herm likes this pick bc of the desperate need for a pass rusher to replace Jared Allen who was lost in 07 and the success of another small DE Dwight Freeney with the Colts where his role model Tony Dungy coached.) 3. Antione Caldwell (Mal Moore leadership award winner is drafted here) Herm kinda player. And can play all line positions but primarily C or G. 4. Louis Murphy (Herm picks a wide out for the needed depth and Murphy provide some speed.) 5. Jasper Brinkley (Tough middle linebacker probably starts.) 6. Andrew Gardner (RT tackle pushes or replaces McIntosh) 7. Captain Munnerlyn (CB and returner) 7. Ricky Jean-Francois (depth at DT) 7. Ryan Succop K And to top it off. After speaking with Tony Dungy about Michael Vick, who has been mentoring Vick, Herm trusts Dungy and decides to give Vick a shot at backing up Tyler Thigpen. Would all of this happened... probably not, but it is interesting to think about what might have been if Herm and Carl would have stayed. Again, I don't think Herm is great and I definitely don't think Carl was good, but I do wonder what might have happened. I do like the draft above much better than our current one, and I do like that we still would have Tony G.
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