Rishaw Johnson penciled in as RG starter

[The Franchise]

www.rotoworld.com

The Chiefs have penciled in Rishaw Johnson as their starting right guard.

Signed off Kansas City's practice squad last September, Johnson showed promise in a Week 17 spot start against San Diego. The Seahawks were also high on Johnson at one point during his 2012 undrafted rookie season. The Chiefs have a ton of holes to fill on the offensive line after losing key guards Geoff Schwartz and Jon Asamoah, as well at left tackle Branden Albert in free agency.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

AJ Green was a prodigy level player for the position. That he never topped 1000 yards in a season in college is irrelevant.

Same with Calvin Johnson, who only topped 1000 yards once in a three year college career.

With Lee, once Barkley and Woods are gone and he's the focus of the offense, you actually lose 1000 yards from his sophomore to his junior year. That's an absolutely incredible number/drop in production.

Marquise Lee is a prodigy level player for the position. His 2013 season is irrelevant.

See how easy that is?

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

I just can't get through to you.

I know what you are saying.

What I'm saying is that guys like Devin Street and Mike Davis and Jared Abbrederis put up as good or better numbers than a guy like Lee and seem to have not only the measurables but the work ethic and drive as well.

It's an extremely deep WR position draft. There are incredibly solid prospects well into the fourth round. Guys who put up ridiculous college numbers like Cody Hoffman might not even get drafted.

What the problem is is that there are a number of people who think that the OG position is a pile of shit and you can just put a guy you found at a truck stop there and get quality production versus a "skill position" where if you don't spend a first rounder on that you'll never get that type of player again in the draft.

Then there is the problem of guys willing to pay journeymen level players $4 and $5 million dollars per because they don't want to spend a first round pick on a particular position, even though that first round pick will be paid half of that and most likely has substantially more upside than said overpaid journeyman player.

However, when it comes down to it, the best players at their positions, regardless of the position, tend to get drafted early versus later.

And I'm already on record stating that I would love Odell Beckham as our pick. In fact, if he's there and they pass, I'm going to be a bit disappointed. However, I'm not going to lose my shit if they decide to go with a guy like S'ua-Filo, who is generally regarded as the best offensive guard prospect in this draft and the best at that position since DeCastro.

I'm also of the opinion that guys like Donte Moncrief and Devin Street and Mike Davis have as much potential to develop into #1 WR's as do guys like Mike Evans, Sammy Watkins and Marquis Lee. I'm also of the opinion that Beckham and Cooks will be off the board by the time the Chiefs pick and if they want to go that fast slot guy route, dudes like Josh Huff and Robert Herron are not that far behind Beckham and Cooks. It's just that deep of a draft for that position.

[saphojunkie]

Right, I get you.

My point is this... I would rather have the fourth best WR in the draft than the single best guard. I would also rather have the second best tight end in the draft than the best guard.

I personally think that our TE situation is terrible as is our WR corps. I think there are multiple guys in this draft who can be at least as good as Bowe right out of the gate. If one of them can push to be our #1 threat and make Bowe his more natural #2... then I'll take them over any guard other than a rookie Will Shields.

[Discuss Thrower]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Right, I get you.

My point is this... I would rather have the fourth best WR in the draft than the single best guard. I would also rather have the second best tight end in the draft than the best guard.

I personally think that our TE situation is terrible as is our WR corps. I think there are multiple guys in this draft who can be at least as good as Bowe right out of the gate. If one of them can push to be our #1 threat and make Bowe his more natural #2... then I'll take them over any guard other than a rookie Will Shields.

WR > OLB > TE > OG > S > ILB > CB > OT > NT = DE > QB > RB >

[Mr. Laz]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Right, I get you.

My point is this... I would rather have the fourth best WR in the draft than the single best guard. I would also rather have the second best tight end in the draft than the best guard.

I personally think that our TE situation is terrible as is our WR corps. I think there are multiple guys in this draft who can be at least as good as Bowe right out of the gate. If one of them can push to be our #1 threat and make Bowe his more natural #2... then I'll take them over any guard other than a rookie Will Shields.

absolutely

Skill positions can have greater impact

Guard might be the lowest impact position on the entire team or fullback since teams don't use them much.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Four teams in four years says that he's just a guy.

If the Chiefs thought he was super All-Pro like everyone around here thinks, then I'm pretty sure that 16 over 4 wouldn't have been too much of a stretch to retain his services.

Just a guy. We signed his identical twin in Linkenbach. I don't know why people keep freaking out about the team letting Schwartz go.

Why did the Giants give him that starting contract? Because he's just a guy?

Or because he was a young player that needed time to turn into the solid starter that he was for us?

Bouncing around from team-to-team doesn't mean shit. On paper if that's all you know about a player, then sure, it's a bad thing. We don't have just that. We have half of a season's worth of games to look at what he did and judge him as a starting offensive lineman. The prognosis around most of the fanbase was that he was absolutely good enough to start for the team longterm. The Giants clearly ****ing viewed it that way, and so did John Dorsey, who apparently tried hard to reach out to Schwartz, but wouldn't bite the bullet on the contract that Schwartz wanted.

[planetdoc]

I'm not sure if anyone is implying it, but I want to make it clear that Rishaw Johnson is very athletic, and not just a "bum" because he wasnt drafted by the chiefs.



Rishaw Johnson also has 35.25" arms, and 10.25" hands
while Xavier has 33.375" arms, and 9.375" hands

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by O.city

The same can be said for the guards in this draft. I'd rather take a guy who could potentially be a 1 wr vs a guard early when I could take a guard that can play at a high level later.

This. It's a position where lots of lower rounders fare well, it's a position where even a stud is barely a difference maker. Compare to a wr that can individually change games and where finding that difference making talent is much harder to find in later rounds. We may make small potatoes out of a five million dollar contract, but seeing that we would hope to resign Smith, Berry, and Houston AND spend money on impact free agents, you can't just throw your money around. Schwartz will be an easy guy to replace. Not saying anyone on our roster is guarantees to do that. But between what we have and guys we can still take late in the draft or off the waiver wire, I'm not concerned.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by SNR

Why did the Giants give him that starting contract? Because he's just a guy?

Or because he was a young player that needed time to turn into the solid starter that he was for us?

Bouncing around from team-to-team doesn't mean shit. On paper if that's all you know about a player, then sure, it's a bad thing. We don't have just that. We have half of a season's worth of games to look at what he did and judge him as a starting offensive lineman. The prognosis around most of the fanbase was that he was absolutely good enough to start for the team longterm. The Giants clearly ****ing viewed it that way, and so did John Dorsey, who apparently tried hard to reach out to Schwartz, but wouldn't bite the bullet on the contract that Schwartz wanted.

You could say the exact same thing for Rishaw Johnson. And sure... John Dorsey wanted him back, but clearly NOT for the amount of money that the Giants were willing to pay him.

Scwartz might be the single most over-valued player I've ever seen in a KC uniform. Dude starts less than half a season and he suddenly becomes irreplaceable and the future of the organization. I just don't get it.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

Really what it comes down to is how much is the drop off between a guy like:

- Marquis Lee versus Devin Street or Mike Davis or Jared Abbrederis
- Odell Beckham/Brandin Cooks versus Josh Huff or Robert Herron

versus

Xavier S'ua Filo versus Trai Turner or Dakota Dozier

Which drop off are you willing to accept more?

Dozier and Turner are both potential starters. I wouldn't be comfortable giving them the starting spot in Year One.

I'm also not comfortable giving S'ua Filo the starting spot in Year One. I've seen this ****ing song and dance before when it comes to the "safe" picks we draft in the first round.

Eric Fisher, Tyson Jackson, Glenn Dorsey, Ryan Sims, John Tait, Victor Reilly...

Newsflash: Those guys weren't "safe" players at all in their rookie seasons. Quite the opposite, actually. They all sucked dick as first-year starters

**** the future of the offensive line. We can get guys for the future in Dozier and Turner. What we worry about right now is THIS YEAR. 2014. Who's going to not look like Eric Fisher out there?

S'ua Filo is just as much an unknown in that department as Rishaw Johnson. No difference.

[RealSNR]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

You could say the exact same thing for Rishaw Johnson. And sure... John Dorsey wanted him back, but clearly NOT for the amount of money that the Giants were willing to pay him.

Scwartz might be the single most over-valued player I've ever seen in a KC uniform. Dude starts less than half a season and he suddenly becomes irreplaceable and the future of the organization. I just don't get it.

Rishaw has one game of starting experience. He's going to have pitfalls. Schwartz came in with a lot of experience, actually.

Guards should be invisible. You shouldn't notice they exist on the team. If your guy is a pancake machine and Will Shields, then great, but other than that a team should only ever invest in the position to keep it adequate and steady.

Schwartz was adequacy and steadiness. He would have been a veteran figure that the rest of the line is already comfortable playing next to. Now the Chiefs have to worry about Fisher, Stephenson, AND their RG, in addition to Jeff Allen's continued bullshit and Rodney Hudson just being okay.

Having Schwartz there would have helped out all those problems in a significant way.

[the Talking Can]

Originally Posted by Saccopoo

I beg to differ:



Devin Street
6'3"
198 lbs.
33 3/8" arms
9 1/4" hands
40: 4.55
Vertical: 37"
Broad: 124"
3 Cone: 6.89 seconds
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

Marquis Lee
6'0"
192 lbs.
31 3/4" arms
9 1/2" hands
40: 4.52
Vertical: 38"
Broad: 127"
20 Yard Shuttle: 4.01 seconds

Same guy except Street is bigger and high points the ball better. Better hands than Lee as well.

nonsense

jesus...if we can't even admit that Lee is superior to Street, then we're in la-la land

prior to his injury, Lee was a top 5 pick and basically an unstoppable beast

call me when Street does the following:
118 catches
1721 yards
14tds


and you want to pass on that for a guard and dollar store version of a #1 WR...no thanks

players of Lee's caliber don't generally fall to #23, we can win the draft by being smart enough to recognize that

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by SNR

Rishaw has one game of starting experience. He's going to have pitfalls. Schwartz came in with a lot of experience, actually.

Guards should be invisible. You shouldn't notice they exist on the team. If your guy is a pancake machine and Will Shields, then great, but other than that a team should only ever invest in the position to keep it adequate and steady.

Schwartz was adequacy and steadiness. He would have been a veteran figure that the rest of the line is already comfortable playing next to. Now the Chiefs have to worry about Fisher, Stephenson, AND their RG, in addition to Jeff Allen's continued bullshit and Rodney Hudson just being okay.

Having Schwartz there would have helped out all those problems in a significant way.

Again, I just think you are massively overvaluing Schwartz.

[Hammock Parties]

Won't be long before Rishaw Johnson is more popular than Dwayne Bowe, amirite?

At least he's cheap, you know? Probably a hard worker. If you work hard and make NFL minimum you'll be a fan favorite in KC.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Right, I get you.

My point is this... I would rather have the fourth best WR in the draft than the single best guard.

It's my contention that the sixth or seventh best WR in this draft is just as good with as much or more potential than the fourth best WR in this draft.

In fact, I think a guy like Donte Moncrief has the tools to be the best receiver in this draft when it's all said and done.

And I like guys like Devin Street, Jordan Matthews and Mike Davis as much as I do a guy like Marquis Lee (and personally, I don't like Lee that much as a potential #1 WR).

And, as I said, I don't think that there is that much of a drop off between Beckham (who I think is the second best receiver in this draft) or Cooks versus Josh Huff, Bruce Ellington and Robert Herron. (I mean, shit, I don't ever mention Ellington, but here's a guy who has basically the same combine measurables as Odell Beckham. This draft is crazy deep at the WR position.)

There is an absolute shit ton of 4.4something, 36"+ vertical receivers in this draft with very good to excellent college production. There's a shit ton of boom/bust guys (Evans, Benjamin, Coleman, Janis). It's a ridiculously deep WR draft.

I would also rather have the second best tight end in the draft than the best guard. I personally think that our TE situation is terrible as is our WR corps.

I don't think there is a problem with our tight end position. Fasano is a very solid starting NFL TE. Kelce has a ton of potential. McGrath only had one year of college football experience at a school that had less people than a large high school, but they guy was getting open and turning upfield against NFL safeties and linebackers in what was essentially his rookie year. The guy has a lot of growth/development/celing left in him as a player. If Kelce is recovered from his injury, then this is a position of strength/depth.

I think there are multiple guys in this draft who can be at least as good as Bowe right out of the gate. If one of them can push to be our #1 threat and make Bowe his more natural #2... then I'll take them over any guard other than a rookie Will Shields.

I think that there are a number of guys who are as good as Bowe in this draft as well. I just happen to think that those guys are still going to be available with our third round pick, especially if Beckham is off the board. (Though I wouldn't cry about them using their first rounder on Donte Moncrief, who, at this stage is a faster, more explosive version of Dwayne Bowe who runs substantially better routes.)

Ideally, if I were picking, I would love to see:

#23. Odell Beckham
#87. Cyril Richardson (who was, up until the Senior Bowl, a virtual first round lock and I still think he's one of the best OG prospects in this draft)

but I'm not going to bitch about them taking a guy like S'ua-Filo if Beckham is off the board. (Though, I'd still go with a guy like Donte Moncrief, Kyle Van Noy or Jeremiah Attaochu, especially if you could trade back.)