A loss that shakes: The Chiefs must prove they are not who they now appear to be

[Hammock Parties]

Most ominous shit Sam has ever written

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/sp...223500455.html

SEATTLE

Do this job long enough and the signs make themselves obvious. The worst losses have a different sound afterward, the busy silence occasionally broken up by a locker door slamming, or team leaders declining to talk to reporters, or hope for hope’s sake.

The losses that sting make clear the difference between a team that’s earned the AFC’s No. 1 seed and a team that might still wear that title despite itself.

The moments that shake are the difference between a team that lost, and these Chiefs who lost their swagger after a 38-31 nationally televised loss here to the Seahawks.

“It seems extreme right now but that’s not the reality of it,” Chiefs coach Andy Reid said. “Just a fix a couple things and we’ll be alright.”

He might be right. Actually, that’s not true. He is right. Just a couple things. The Chiefs have now lost four games, by a total of 10 points, each of them decided in one form or another late in the fourth quarter.

They’ve lost to two AFC teams. The Patriots have lost three of five, and the Chargers have led the Chiefs for exactly 4 of 7,200 seconds this season. The Chiefs play the Raiders at home next week, which is the closest thing the NFL offers to a week 17 bye. Win that and the Chiefs have the No. 1 seed.

So, Reid is right. Just a couple things. This is not a disaster.

But you sure can see disaster from here.

“You have to find a way to win these games,” quarterback Patrick Mahomes said. “We haven’t been lately, so that’s the most frustrating thing. Everybody’s got to step up.”

Repeat: Just a couple things. We’ll be alright.

That works enough as coach speak in a postgame press conference, words that nobody in the room believes tell the whole story, but let’s play along. A couple things.

One would be the run defense. The Seahawks ran for the most predictable 210 yards in NFL history. Up the middle, around the edge, quarterback Russell Wilson on a scramble. Whatever. It all worked.

One would be the pass defense. The Chiefs again could not cover, and when they did cover, they could not make the play. They made up for all of that by missing far too many tackles.

One would be penalties. They padded their league-leading total with eight more, including one on a missed field goal and four others that gave the Seahawks first downs.

One would be the offense. Nobody wants to admit it, but this is two games in a row the offense has not been good enough. Last week against the Chargers, they needed one first down on their last possession. They went three and out. This week, they managed just 10 points with two turnovers (one that gifted the Seahawks a touchdown) before halftime. They had five possessions in which they punted or turned it over within three plays.

This team was always going as far as the offense would take it, whether that’s fair or not, and the last two weeks the offense hasn’t been good enough.

That’s four things, which is technically more than “a couple,” but this is no time for nitpicking so let’s get to the point.

Do you have confidence the Chiefs will fix these problems? And if so, why? How?

The Chiefs are in a precarious place. They are the probable No. 1 seed, even still, and are giving seldom-used rookie defensive backs the ol’ screw-it-how-much-worse-could-they-be opportunities in week 16 road games.

They have been the AFC’s best team for virtually the entire season, but at this point that feels more like an indictment on the rest of the conference than a reason to be confident in the Chiefs.

Assuming they beat the Raiders next week — and if they don’t, they’ve got much bigger problems — we are still three weeks from the Chiefs’ next real test.

And the heck of it is that Reid is factually accurate. They’re not that far off. The NFL’s gravitational pull means parody rules the day, always has, and the Chiefs will likely have homefield advantage, the best quarterback, and the best offense in the field.

That is an incredible place to be, particularly in what the organization originally forecasted as a transition year.

But the Chiefs are trending the wrong way, at the wrong time. That offense isn’t as dynamic as it once was. Eric Berry is playing again, but most of the biggest problems on defense still exist, even when he’s not on the sideline during the most important moments.

The Chiefs have everything in front of them, even still.

But the truth is a lot of their fans are terrified of what that means.

[MVChiefFan]

Originally Posted by Scorpion05

Yea I disagree. Style of play and in game situations matter

The most dangerous offenses aren’t just the ones that can score 50. It’s the ones that can score on almost every drive, while methodically driving down the field. Eating away at the clock

Even if it means one less possession for the opposing teams offense, it changes the dynamic of the game. It would give your defense, especially your pass rush a chance to make the big play. I’ve seen some truly horrific defenses in my time watching football. That’s not what I saw yesterday. I saw a defense thats had a long season and was getting worn down quarter by quarter. Sometimes, a team who only needs 4-6 plays to score can affect a defense almost like a 3 and out can. Your defense is back on the field in no time. People always look at stats and numbers, but football is so complimentary in the way both the offense and the defense affect each other

For a team who throws the ball as amazingly as you guys do, you guys don’t leverage it as well at all imo. You could, and should be running the ball a lot more. It will mean less gaudy stats, maybe even less points for Mahomes. But in my opinion it will lead to more wins, especially in the post season. Passing is a lot more unpredictable than running. You can pass often and before you know it, a ball gets tipped, receiver drops or fumbles, Mahomes makes a mistake, or 3 and out and the clock stops. All of a sudden your defense is back out again. That’s actually what happened in one sequence last night. Quick 3 and out by you guys, and we ate up more clock, continued to wear out your defense, and scored

Ball control is the key to an offense as explosive as yours. The Greatest Show on Turf’s biggest strength was Marshall Faulk, in an era where teams still loved to run the ball. I just think you guys are in a situation where Andy Reid wants to drive his Ferrari Enzo(Mahomes) everyday. And that car will win you a lot of races. But the Enzo gets like 10 mpg. Take out the Toyota Hybrid every now and then and be smart about it. Just my take. Andy won’t change, but run the ball a lot more. The opportunity is there

Yeah, your thoughts are very solid. I wish to God we could play that way. You’re also right about Andy not really buying into ball control. But, on the other side of the coin, if our defense would get a few three and outs, that would give them some rest. It’s just the darnedest thing to watch our defense either get ran over at five yards a pop, miss tackles, or get countless penalties.

[Scorpion05]

Nice conversation. Appreciate the exchange

Last point I would make is, defensive players take more plays off when they’re on the field longer. The reason why Pete Carroll, Rex Ryan, and now Harbaugh & the Ravens prefer ball control is because they know it allows a defense to give their all on most drives. It allows a defense to play better than they are.

Not saying to become run 1st, of course not. Mahomes is a stud. But I would run a bit more. Or at least a lot more short passes. Control the tempo of the game, don’t just focus on scoring. But it’s REALLY hard for geniuses like Reid and ridiculously talented players like Mahomes to show restraint with their power. Even if at times it’s for the better

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Scorpion05

Yea I disagree. Style of play and in game situations matter

The most dangerous offenses aren’t just the ones that can score 50. It’s the ones that can score on almost every drive, while methodically driving down the field. Eating away at the clock

Even if it means one less possession for the opposing teams offense, it changes the dynamic of the game. It would give your defense, especially your pass rush a chance to make the big play. I’ve seen some truly horrific defenses in my time watching football. That’s not what I saw yesterday. I saw a defense thats had a long season and was getting worn down quarter by quarter. Sometimes, a team who only needs 4-6 plays to score can affect a defense almost like a 3 and out can. Your defense is back on the field in no time. People always look at stats and numbers, but football is so complimentary in the way both the offense and the defense affect each other

For a team who throws the ball as amazingly as you guys do, you guys don’t leverage it as well at all imo. You could, and should be running the ball a lot more. It will mean less gaudy stats, maybe even less points for Mahomes. But in my opinion it will lead to more wins, especially in the post season. Passing is a lot more unpredictable than running. You can pass often and before you know it, a ball gets tipped, receiver drops or fumbles, Mahomes makes a mistake, or 3 and out and the clock stops. All of a sudden your defense is back out again. That’s actually what happened in one sequence last night. Quick 3 and out by you guys, and we ate up more clock, continued to wear out your defense, and scored

Ball control is the key to an offense as explosive as yours. The Greatest Show on Turf’s biggest strength was Marshall Faulk, in an era where teams still loved to run the ball. I just think you guys are in a situation where Andy Reid wants to drive his Ferrari Enzo(Mahomes) everyday. And that car will win you a lot of races. But the Enzo gets like 10 mpg. Take out the Toyota Hybrid every now and then and be smart about it. Just my take. Andy won’t change, but run the ball a lot more. The opportunity is there

We were more like that with Kareem Hunt. He kept the defenses honest. I have no doubt that the last few games would have been different if he was playing.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by Scorpion05

For a team who throws the ball as amazingly as you guys do, you guys don’t leverage it as well at all imo. You could, and should be running the ball a lot more.

As you know, we lost our basically All-Pro RB about a month ago. Team has been trying to re-establish its offensive identity/equilibrium since but has clearly leaned on Mahomes more as a result. So had we played you two months ago when our offense was firing on all cylinders, it looked a lot more like a symphony and it was leveraged to perfection. But with Hunt released, and with our back-up to him (Ware) who had at least a semi-similar style also out, we were relying upon a very different skillset in the backfield (more finesse). I think we just haven't figured out how to best utilize that.

[MVChiefFan]

Originally Posted by Scorpion05

Nice conversation. Appreciate the exchange

Last point I would make is, defensive players take more plays off when they’re on the field longer. The reason why Pete Carroll, Rex Ryan, and now Harbaugh & the Ravens prefer ball control is because they know it allows a defense to give their all on most drives. It allows a defense to play better than they are.

Not saying to become run 1st, of course not. Mahomes is a stud. But I would run a bit more. Or at least a lot more short passes. Control the tempo of the game, don’t just focus on scoring. But it’s REALLY hard for geniuses like Reid and ridiculously talented players like Mahomes to show restraint with their power. Even if at times it’s for the better

Makes sense. I’m not saying Damien Williams hasn’t flashed, but I think missing Hunt really hurts. Seattle just sat back and dared us to run, which hurt our passing game in the first half. If anything, I think that Hunt at least scared people enough to respect our running game. I don’t know, it’s a sound philosophy for sure, but there’s a possibility you don’t fully respect how bad our defense is.

[Scorpion05]

I agree about Hunt. And yet, I would still say as talented as Hunt was he could have been used a bit more in the run game. In the few games I watched of Hunt this year he seemed to be used as more of a threat at times than a balanced offense. Last year he was definitely a feature with Alex Smith at QB, and was fully capable of being a 2000 yard rusher (or close to it)

You guys obviously watch the games more, so I could be wrong

[MVChiefFan]

Originally Posted by Scorpion05

I agree about Hunt. And yet, I would still say as talented as Hunt was he could have been used a bit more in the run game. In the few games I watched of Hunt this year he seemed to be used as more of a threat at times than a balanced offense. Last year he was definitely a feature with Alex Smith at QB, and was fully capable of being a 2000 yard rusher (or close to it)

You guys obviously watch the games more, so I could be wrong

No, you’re somewhat correct, especially at the beginning of the year. But, as TwistedChief said, we became a little more balanced and Hunt was really cookin’. It just kind of sucks.

[Scorpion05]

Originally Posted by MVChiefFan

No, you’re somewhat correct, especially at the beginning of the year. But, as TwistedChief said, we became a little more balanced and Hunt was really cookin’. It just kind of sucks.

Which also makes sense. Cheers

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Scorpion05

Yea I disagree. Style of play and in game situations matter

The most dangerous offenses aren’t just the ones that can score 50. It’s the ones that can score on almost every drive, while methodically driving down the field. Eating away at the clock

Even if it means one less possession for the opposing teams offense, it changes the dynamic of the game. It would give your defense, especially your pass rush a chance to make the big play. I’ve seen some truly horrific defenses in my time watching football. That’s not what I saw yesterday. I saw a defense thats had a long season and was getting worn down quarter by quarter. Sometimes, a team who only needs 4-6 plays to score can affect a defense almost like a 3 and out can. Your defense is back on the field in no time. People always look at stats and numbers, but football is so complimentary in the way both the offense and the defense affect each other

For a team who throws the ball as amazingly as you guys do, you guys don’t leverage it as well at all imo. You could, and should be running the ball a lot more. It will mean less gaudy stats, maybe even less points for Mahomes. But in my opinion it will lead to more wins, especially in the post season. Passing is a lot more unpredictable than running. You can pass often and before you know it, a ball gets tipped, receiver drops or fumbles, Mahomes makes a mistake, or 3 and out and the clock stops. All of a sudden your defense is back out again. That’s actually what happened in one sequence last night. Quick 3 and out by you guys, and we ate up more clock, continued to wear out your defense, and scored

Ball control is the key to an offense as explosive as yours. The Greatest Show on Turf’s biggest strength was Marshall Faulk, in an era where teams still loved to run the ball. I just think you guys are in a situation where Andy Reid wants to drive his Ferrari Enzo(Mahomes) everyday. And that car will win you a lot of races. But the Enzo gets like 10 mpg. Take out the Toyota Hybrid every now and then and be smart about it. Just my take. Andy won’t change, but run the ball a lot more. The opportunity is there

Not sure I entirely agree. We're all hung over from ball controlling Alex Smith. We've lost several games because Andy Reid chose to throw the ball sideways and abandoning our aggressive offense. While the Rams were aggressive and run heavy... Brady, brees, and rodgers have had many years in their career with barely a run game.

I think we need to learn to balance in runs and short checkdowns. But not in the name of ball control. Only just enough to take what the defense gives you and keep them off balance. Plus... We're not exactly scoring in 2 plays. We're still putting together a ton of long drives. We don't exhaust our defense the way most fast scoring offenses do. Our defense exhausts themselves because they can never get off the field.

[jallmon]

Originally Posted by Lurker

Parody?! Who are the Chiefs a parody of? Is some other team parodying the Chiefs? Maybe some other year but not this one.

Why can't even "professional" writers use basic vocabulary correctly?

(I guess to be fair, this is the only error I've noticed in any of his articles.)

Ah, the autocorrect. He was typing "parity," must've misspelled it, and the auto correct fixed it for him with ''parody." Spell checking article found nothing wrong. Most newspapers have editors to catch shit like that; all good newspapers do.

[Demonpenz]

I would give a **** about the offense if the defense wasn't the worst of all-time. When your defense is that bad that you question if they have played football before, you have to have your focus on that unit until they are above worst defense ever to 2nd worse defense ever.

[Demonpenz]

I don't understand that line with parody or parity or whatever. I took it as the chiefs have been shitty so long they are due and it is lining up to them.

[Scorpion05]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Not sure I entirely agree. We're all hung over from ball controlling Alex Smith. We've lost several games because Andy Reid chose to throw the ball sideways and abandoning our aggressive offense. While the Rams were aggressive and run heavy... Brady, brees, and rodgers have had many years in their career with barely a run game.

I think we need to learn to balance in runs and short checkdowns. But not in the name of ball control. Only just enough to take what the defense gives you and keep them off balance. Plus... We're not exactly scoring in 2 plays. We're still putting together a ton of long drives. We don't exhaust our defense the way most fast scoring offenses do. Our defense exhausts themselves because they can never get off the field.

How often would you guys say you win the time of possession battle? I mean outright win it, sometimes by as much as 10 minutes? I’m open to being corrected

There have been many high powered offenses over the years. You mentioned Tom Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. Well out of those 3, only Tom Brady has been to multiple Super Bowls. Remember Tom’s record breaking year, they lost in the big game. Blame the flukey catch, or whatever it is. But the Patriots great winning years came through complimentary football.

That’s my point. You guys are aggressive sure, and score a lot of points. But that’s not necessarily “winning” football. Especially not in the playoffs. Why are the Saints so great in the last 2 years? Because they have Kamara and Ingram(and rely on Brees efficiency. Ditto for the Seahawks this year). Otherwise despite Brees’ gaudy stats in past years, they’d lose some games. Why did the Vikings make it to the NFC championship? Because of great defense, aided by ball control, tempo, and Keenum making key plays. Under Kirk Cousins, they got too pass happy and their defense, with mostly the same roster isn’t the same. That’s not a coincidence

And the Eagles? There’s a reason they got Jay Ajayi last year. At times they were very balanced..and leveraged the run much better than Andy Reid does at times

You can have a great Quarterback. But Aaron Rodgers is proof that numbers aren’t everything to team winning. Some people critique the Packers talent, but teams with less talent throughout history have done more. The more things change the more they stay the same. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just think that unless Reid changes some of his ways, you’ll waste Mahomes’ talent

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Scorpion05

How often would you guys say you win the time of possession battle? I mean outright win it, sometimes by as much as 10 minutes? I’m open to being corrected

There have been many high powered offenses over the years. You mentioned Tom Brady, Rodgers, and Brees. Well out of those 3, only Tom Brady has been to multiple Super Bowls. Remember Tom’s record breaking year, they lost in the big game. Blame the flukey catch, or whatever it is. But the Patriots great winning years came through complimentary football.

That’s my point. You guys are aggressive sure, and score a lot of points. But that’s not necessarily “winning” football. Especially not in the playoffs. Why are the Saints so great in the last 2 years? Because they have Kamara and Ingram(and rely on Brees efficiency. Ditto for the Seahawks this year). Otherwise despite Brees’ gaudy stats in past years, they’d lose some games. Why did the Vikings make it to the NFC championship? Because of great defense, aided by ball control, tempo, and Keenum making key plays. Under Kirk Cousins, they got too pass happy and their defense, with mostly the same roster isn’t the same. That’s not a coincidence

And the Eagles? There’s a reason they got Jay Ajayi last year. At times they were very balanced..and leveraged the run much better than Andy Reid does at times

You can have a great Quarterback. But Aaron Rodgers is proof that numbers aren’t everything to team winning. Some people critique the Packers talent, but teams with less talent throughout history have done more. The more things change the more they stay the same. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just think that unless Reid changes some of his ways, you’ll waste Mahomes’ talent

Rsalize you're talking to a fan base that has played Marty ball for decades. Non stop except for the vermeil years. Weve seen the flaws in Alex smith's game management style.

We aren't doing bad on time of possession. Mahomes extends drives. I don't have the numbers in front of me but I'd bet we're pretty consistently getting at least 6 plays in per drive. And we typically use up the whole clock before we snap the ball. We're losing some TOP battles but that's because no joke, our defense is consistently staying on the field for 10 plays a game.

Mahomes is at his best when he freelances. Reid has already dialed him back. When reid dials back mahomes too much yiu can tell it doesn't fit our style. We go three and out, which does nothing to extend drives.

I get what you're saying. But it's not a good fit for mahomes.

[NJChiefsFan]

Has CP hooked another one with Scorpion05?