DJ Moore to Chiefs?

[KingPriest2]

Rumors are coming out he wants out of Carolina. And one of the teams coming up are the Chiefs

What’s your thoughts?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by gratiaprex

Moore is absolutely talented and would be a serious threat...if he had time to pick up the system. Pass Rush is a much bigger need. Brian Burns ranks 2nd is pass rush win percentage next to Bosa. That is a difference maker that would make the whole defense better. Secondary could actually play aggressive because they know the QB has to get rid of the ball. Not having to blitz Sneed every 5 plays to get pressure would be nice.

Rushing 4 and playing 7 in coverage is a luxury every AFC West team has, as do the Bills/Bucs. Basically Mahomes has to be a magician every time he goes out, but I would love it if we could give him some help from the run game (O-line is next biggest need before WR), and some time to make a decision.

That said, I still can't believe how good Mahomes is that he has to overcome a shaky line and an inconsistent run game every week. Seriously, it's unbelievable how good that guy is.

In a vacuum I don't disagree.

Give me Brian Burns at the same acquisition cost and same contract and I'm on board.

But Burns doesn't have a deal - just the 5th year option. And reasonable as that 5th year option may be, it's not the 3 years at a reasonable rate that Moore brings. His 5th year tag is for $16 million and gives very little leverage in long-term contract leverage.

I think you're looking at giving up at least a 1st round pick, and probably a future 2nd (or the rough equivalent of the Clark compensation) and then something akin to a 5/$125 million deal. And given what the market is doing, with Bosa effectively setting the market at 5/$135, I'm betting you're looking close to $5/150 as his target.

I'm just not sure how you afford that w/ Jones, Kelce and Mahomes. And yes, eventually you're gonna need to spend some significant money on LT, RT or both.

Burns is almost certainly the best fit of talent/need of just about anyone out there, available or not. But man - I don't know how you make those numbers work. As cheap as we went on the WR room this year, you're looking at a carbon copy of it for the next several if we went this route.

It's been O.City's dream for a couple years now but sooner or later the money runs dry. And with the opportunity cost that comes with the picks being moved AND the massive contract, I just don't know how you swing it.

[carcosa]

Originally Posted by Razaele

at this point someone should change the thread title so it doesn’t look like this has any basis in reality, since it doesn’t.

It will if we do enough posts

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

In a vacuum I don't disagree.

Give me Brian Burns at the same acquisition cost and same contract and I'm on board.

But Burns doesn't have a deal - just the 5th year option. And reasonable as that 5th year option may be, it's not the 3 years at a reasonable rate that Moore brings. His 5th year tag is for $16 million and gives very little leverage in long-term contract leverage.

I think you're looking at giving up at least a 1st round pick, and probably a future 2nd (or the rough equivalent of the Clark compensation) and then something akin to a 5/$125 million deal. And given what the market is doing, with Bosa effectively setting the market at 5/$135, I'm betting you're looking close to $5/150 as his target.

I'm just not sure how you afford that w/ Jones, Kelce and Mahomes. And yes, eventually you're gonna need to spend some significant money on LT, RT or both.

Burns is almost certainly the best fit of talent/need of just about anyone out there, available or not. But man - I don't know how you make those numbers work. As cheap as we went on the WR room this year, you're looking at a carbon copy of it for the next several if we went this route.

It's been O.City's dream for a couple years now but sooner or later the money runs dry. And with the opportunity cost that comes with the picks being moved AND the massive contract, I just don't know how you swing it.

The thing is, Burns is a legitimate RDE top of the league sack guy. Those guys just......**** they're hard to find. I don't see the Panthers trading him because of it, but if they were going to, you'd have to dip a toe.

LT, DE and QB. You'd need to get a little lucky at the LT spot and or sign OBJ and again, get lucky.

I love Kelce as much as anyone here, but I mean, he's 33. Are we gonna blow him out on a contract soon? Jones you have to and if you do that for Burns, yes, you're gonna sacrifice someone home grown and they'll leave. Maybe Sneed or Trey Smith.

But you've got Thuney coming off the books at some point (you can't pay Creed and or Smith and keep Thuney) and obviously Clark.

So yeah, you'd lose some guys. But you also add a cornerstone at a premium position. So knowing that, I would trust my coaches and scouts to be able to go find another RG or LG or ILB vs finding a difference making pass rusher. Not because I don't think they're great scouts or one of hte top 3 organizations in the sport when it comes to that, but simply because they won't have the opportunity to find that guy.

[O.city]

You could also have Burns for a tag year if you didn't want to extend him right now.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

The thing is, Burns is a legitimate RDE top of the league sack guy. Those guys just......**** they're hard to find. I don't see the Panthers trading him because of it, but if they were going to, you'd have to dip a toe.

LT, DE and QB. You'd need to get a little lucky at the LT spot and or sign OBJ and again, get lucky.

I love Kelce as much as anyone here, but I mean, he's 33. Are we gonna blow him out on a contract soon? Jones you have to and if you do that for Burns, yes, you're gonna sacrifice someone home grown and they'll leave. Maybe Sneed or Trey Smith.

But you've got Thuney coming off the books at some point (you can't pay Creed and or Smith and keep Thuney) and obviously Clark.

So yeah, you'd lose some guys. But you also add a cornerstone at a premium position. So knowing that, I would trust my coaches and scouts to be able to go find another RG or LG or ILB vs finding a difference making pass rusher. Not because I don't think they're great scouts or one of hte top 3 organizations in the sport when it comes to that, but simply because they won't have the opportunity to find that guy.

I love how your only solution to the LT issue is "luck".

You've lost your ever-loving mind.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I love how your only solution to the LT issue is "luck".

You've lost your ever-loving mind.

If they're not gonna sign a legitimate starting LT in FA (doesn't appear to be any hitting it this year) or trade way up for a plug and play guy (I doubt that would ever be an option) you're gonna have to get a little lucky there.

Be it a guy you take in the late first who overperforms or a developmental guy in the later rounds or something.

You've talked alot about this, without offering your solution. So what's your plan at LT?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

If they're not gonna sign a legitimate starting LT in FA (doesn't appear to be any hitting it this year) or trade way up for a plug and play guy (I doubt that would ever be an option) you're gonna have to get a little lucky there.

Be it a guy you take in the late first who overperforms or a developmental guy in the later rounds or something.

You've talked alot about this, without offering your solution. So what's your plan at LT?

1. Get rid of OBJ.

2. Trust Veach to find a suitable replacement.

The WHOLE reason to get rid of OBJ is the price tag. If you can't save money on a new LT, then getting one in the first place is pointless.

They chances of them finding someone BETTER than OBJ that doesn't break the bank are slim. The absolute best option is to handle it through the draft and trust your ****ing scouts instead of hand-wringing and repeating the Frank Clark mistake.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

1. Get rid of OBJ.

2. Trust Veach to find a suitable replacement.

The WHOLE reason to get rid of OBJ is the price tag. If you can't save money on a new LT, then getting one in the first place is pointless.

They chances of them finding someone BETTER than OBJ that doesn't break the bank are slim. The absolute best option is to handle it through the draft and trust your ****ing scouts instead of hand-wringing and repeating the Frank Clark mistake.

Yep, at some point our next LT is coming from the draft. We're just never going to have the cap space to get a top 5 player at that position without completely f***ing this roster.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

1. Get rid of OBJ.

2. Trust Veach to find a suitable replacement.

The WHOLE reason to get rid of OBJ is the price tag. If you can't save money on a new LT, then getting one in the first place is pointless.

They chances of them finding someone BETTER than OBJ that doesn't break the bank are slim. The absolute best option is to handle it through the draft and trust your ****ing scouts instead of hand-wringing and repeating the Frank Clark mistake.

The Frank Clark mistake wasn't the trade or the money. It was that Frank Clark got hurt and sucked. If he were the guy he was in Seattle, it's fine.

"Trust your ****ing scouts". Ok. So if your pro scouting department is saying "Brian Burns is one of top 3 or 4 pass rushers in the league, we should spend these resources and add him to our team" do we trust them then or?

You want to find a LT in the draft. That's the ideal option. As we've seen, unless they want to trade up for one, it's gonna take luck to find one where they're drafting based on the last 7 or 8 years of the draft and how that whole thing goes.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by JPH83

Yep, at some point our next LT is coming from the draft. We're just never going to have the cap space to get a top 5 player at that position without completely f***ing this roster.

A top 5 player at LT?

I'd rather have and pay a top 5 LT than a top 5 LG or top 5 Safety though.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

1. Get rid of OBJ.

2. Trust Veach to find a suitable replacement.

The WHOLE reason to get rid of OBJ is the price tag. If you can't save money on a new LT, then getting one in the first place is pointless.

They chances of them finding someone BETTER than OBJ that doesn't break the bank are slim. The absolute best option is to handle it through the draft and trust your ****ing scouts instead of hand-wringing and repeating the Frank Clark mistake.

Yeah, but this will always carry an element of luck to it.

Like I said in some other thread around here, take Darian Kinnard and Larry Borom, put their scouting reports, development arc and platform seasons for mid-tier SEC schools and stand them side by side.

Man, it is REALLY hard to find two guys more comparable on draft day than those 2.

Larry Borom was a surprise 5th round pick who was expected to be a UDFA and was starting in his rookie season. This year he's been a well above average T for the Bears. Darian Kinnard was a surprise 5th round pick who was expected to be a 3rd round pick. This year he's...completely lost.

I mean good god, how do you navigate that minefield? In what world was Borom a better bet to be this good, this quickly, than Darian Kinnard?

That's luck. It's the paradox of skill in action. I just don't know what else to call it.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

1. Get rid of OBJ.

2. Trust Veach to find a suitable replacement.

The WHOLE reason to get rid of OBJ is the price tag. If you can't save money on a new LT, then getting one in the first place is pointless.

They chances of them finding someone BETTER than OBJ that doesn't break the bank are slim. The absolute best option is to handle it through the draft and trust your ****ing scouts instead of hand-wringing and repeating the Frank Clark mistake.

I'll generally trust the Chiefs' decision-making process on this no matter which way it goes.

But I definitely have more apprehension about Brown's ability to play at a high enough level to justify the type of deal KC offered him in the offseason.

Before this year, based on how he played last year, I was comfortable being vocal about him being a top 10-12 overall LT. Not an elite guy, but good enough that it's reasonable to expect him to be paid right around the top of the market on a new deal.

He hasn't played up to that yet.

I didn't get back to you the other day on the tag/trade vs. let walk in FA/get comp pick discussion. I think the reason you'd be motivated to look at a tag and trade is to get the draft capital NOW for 2023 rather than having to wait until the following year. It would allow KC to be more aggressive in trying to trade up, if that's the plan, for a LT in this draft.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Frank Clark mistake wasn't the trade or the money. It was that Frank Clark got hurt and sucked. If he were the guy he was in Seattle, it's fine.

"Trust your ****ing scouts". Ok. So if your pro scouting department is saying "Brian Burns is one of top 3 or 4 pass rushers in the league, we should spend these resources and add him to our team" do we trust them then or?

You want to find a LT in the draft. That's the ideal option. As we've seen, unless they want to trade up for one, it's gonna take luck to find one where they're drafting based on the last 7 or 8 years of the draft and how that whole thing goes.

As I said at the time, if he was the guy he was in Seattle, we STILL lose the trade. And it's not because the trade or the money, it's because the trade AND the money.

It is so so so difficult to win a trade where you give up substantial assets for a player who you turn around and hand a market contract to. Especially now that we don't have a cheap QB anymore so we REALLY need those draft picks to provide cost-effective solutions elsewhere on the roster.

If you can say nothing else about the Clark trade, you can at least say that it happened at the time we could most afford to make an ill-advised decision like that - when PM was still cheap (and Kelce/Hill/Fisher/Schwartz were under market).

We're just not there anymore. Even if a Burns trade 'works', I'm not sure how you're actually better in the long-term.

Now if your argument is 'we have 2 years left with Kelce at this level, push the chips in until he's done'...okay. I can buy that argument. I disagree with it, but I can make the pieces fit together.

But if you have the long-term health of the team in mind, I don't see many ways to defend another Frank Clark style deal, regardless of how the player turns out.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Frank Clark mistake wasn't the trade or the money. It was that Frank Clark got hurt and sucked. If he were the guy he was in Seattle, it's fine.

"Trust your ****ing scouts". Ok. So if your pro scouting department is saying "Brian Burns is one of top 3 or 4 pass rushers in the league, we should spend these resources and add him to our team" do we trust them then or?

You want to find a LT in the draft. That's the ideal option. As we've seen, unless they want to trade up for one, it's gonna take luck to find one where they're drafting based on the last 7 or 8 years of the draft and how that whole thing goes.

Stop changing the subject to Brian Burns. We're talking about left tackle.

Again, of the top 20 or so left tackles in the league, HALF of them were taken outside the top half of the first round.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Yeah, but this will always carry an element of luck to it.

Like I said in some other thread around here, take Darian Kinnard and Larry Borom, put their scouting reports, development arc and platform seasons for mid-tier SEC schools and stand them side by side.

Man, it is REALLY hard to find two guys more comparable on draft day than those 2.

Larry Borom was a surprise 5th round pick who was expected to be a UDFA and was starting in his rookie season. This year he's been a well above average T for the Bears. Darian Kinnard was a surprise 5th round pick who was expected to be a 3rd round pick. This year he's...completely lost.

I mean good god, how do you navigate that minefield? In what world was Borom a better bet to be this good, this quickly, than Darian Kinnard?

That's luck. It's the paradox of skill in action. I just don't know what else to call it.

An ELEMENT of luck, yes. City acts like if you're not picking in the top 15, it's ALL luck.