Joe "Cool" and being elite? Yeah, no.

[mr. tegu]

I admit I realize I have been overestimating him like many others. He is quite good but elite he is not and he definitely hasn't earned his "cool" moniker. And I have heard multiple pundits now say, even after yesterday he is a better QB than Mahomes, but Mahomes is the better player. Talk about moving the goalposts to fit your narrative.

I will give him credit for the Brady comparison though as he has absolutely been carried by his defense and luck like Brady was in his earlier years in winning playoff games. But Burrow isn't as clutch as Brady was even back then.

And for those who think he is even close to Mahomes:

Burrow 0 times 30 point postseason games to Mahomes 8
300 yard games is 1 to 7
TD drives in fourth quarter is a whopping 0 to 14

Good old Nick Wright has more in the video but here is a picture with the most relevant part of Burrow's fourth quarter stats in the postseason. It's remarkable the Bengals have won any games honestly in the postseason.

[dlphg9]

Joe Burrow isn't elite? That's absurd. Peyton Manning was considered elite before he won a SB. He was 3-6 in the playoffs up until age 30 when he finally won. Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the league and even though he's not Patrick Mahomes that doesn't mean he's not elite.

[Prison Bitch]

It’s a dumb take. No need to debate it

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by dlphg9

Joe Burrow isn't elite? That's absurd. Peyton Manning was considered elite before he won a SB. He was 3-6 in the playoffs up until age 30 when he finally won. Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the league and even though he's not Patrick Mahomes that doesn't mean he's not elite.

This is all subjective, but IMO Burrow is a good-to-very good QB with one of the best WR corps the NFL has ever seen. None of his physical traits are elite, and he has faltered in the two biggest games of his career.

He's the flavor of the month, just like Allen, Herbert, and every other QB anointed "The next challenger to Mahomes" before him. He'll get his big contract, the Bengals will not draft as well as Veach has, their talent level will decrease, and Burrow will join the ranks of the other pretenders.

[MahomesMagic]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

This is all subjective, but IMO Burrow is a good-to-very good QB with one of the best WR corps the NFL has ever seen. None of his physical traits are elite, and he has faltered in the two biggest games of his career.

He's the flavor of the month, just like Allen, Herbert, and every other QB anointed "The next challenger to Mahomes" before him. He'll get his big contract, the Bengals will not draft as well as Veach has, their talent level will decrease, and Burrow will join the ranks of the other pretenders.

Agree that Mahomes doesn't have a challenger but after Mahomes who are your top QB's?

If not Burrow you have to make a case for someone.

If Daboll was still in Buffalo you could make a case for Josh Allen. Now that's he gone it's almost Burrow by default.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

This is all subjective, but IMO Burrow is a good-to-very good QB with one of the best WR corps the NFL has ever seen. None of his physical traits are elite, and he has faltered in the two biggest games of his career.

He's the flavor of the month, just like Allen, Herbert, and every other QB anointed "The next challenger to Mahomes" before him. He'll get his big contract, the Bengals will not draft as well as Veach has, their talent level will decrease, and Burrow will join the ranks of the other pretenders.

I think he has some strong traits:

1. Super quick release
2. Very smart in reading defense
3. Underrated mobility
4. Very accurate
5. Plenty of arm strength

He’s really damn good. Now I do think he has benefited a lot from a very strong Cincy defense in the Playoffs. We will see if that continues long term.

[philfree]

Joe went fetal on the one Chris Jones sack. He's been really good but young superstars don't go fetal.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Agree that Mahomes doesn't have a challenger but after Mahomes who are your top QB's?

If not Burrow you have to make a case for someone.

If Daboll was still in Buffalo you could make a case for Josh Allen. Now that's he gone it's almost Burrow by default.

Burrow hasn't done shit in the playoffs but get carried by his defense. Allen is better, has already done more in the NFL and actually carries his team.

[ToxSocks]

Originally Posted by DRM08

I think he has some strong traits:

1. Super quick release
2. Very smart in reading defense
3. Underrated mobility
4. Very accurate
5. Plenty of arm strength

He’s really damn good. Now I do think he has benefited a lot from a very strong Cincy defense in the Playoffs. We will see if that continues long term.

For all the talk about how good he is at reading defenses, he sure as shit couldn't read ours.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by jjchieffan

I'm not going to try to compare Burrow to Mahomes until he gets paid and the team can't keep the best wide receivers group in the NFL together. He looked much more mortal Sunday night with Boyd hurt. Doesn't bode well for his future. Mahomes is already being paid and had to live without Tyreek. He responded with an MVP season and a trip to the Superbowl. Let's see what Burrow does when that happens to him. His best window is closing soon.

Cincy’s offense will continue to be very good over time. They will have Burrow & Chase helping elevate the other guys on that side of the ball.

The much bigger question is what happens to the defense? They have been phenomenal in the Playoffs the last two seasons, giving up less than 19 points per game and never more than 23 points in a game. Compare this with KC or Buffalo defenses having several pretty bad games in the Playoffs. Will the Cincy defense be able to keep performing this well every year?

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by MahomesMagic

Agree that Mahomes doesn't have a challenger but after Mahomes who are your top QB's?

If not Burrow you have to make a case for someone.

If Daboll was still in Buffalo you could make a case for Josh Allen. Now that's he gone it's almost Burrow by default.

I guess it also depends on how you define "elite". I'm sure many people feel the top 2 or 3 QBs at any given time are elite by default, but I don't. I see nothing from Burrow that we haven't seen before. Smart, accurate, blah blah blah. Might as well add "gritty, brings his lunch pail to work" to his resume'.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

I guess it also depends on how you define "elite". I'm sure many people feel the top 2 or 3 QBs at any given time are elite by default, but I don't. I see nothing from Burrow that we haven't seen before. Smart, accurate, blah blah blah. Might as well add "gritty, brings his lunch pail to work" to his resume'.

From what I've seen of Burrow so far, I think he's on the cusp of being elite. Sometimes he seems to have the "it" factor and sometimes he melts down. His performances across the playoffs in the 4th quarter suggest he's not nearly as clutch as some make him out to be.

It will be interesting to see if he ever wins a Super Bowl, since the last like 15 QB's to lose their first Super Bowl appearance never made it back.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

For all the talk about how good he is at reading defenses, he sure as shit couldn't read ours.

I mean no QB has a perfect game every time. There are plenty of examples of Tom Brady looking like shit for instance. Chiefs DL finally got some pressure on Burrow. They were aided by the injuries on the Cincy OL, very similar to how Tampa’s pass rush gained a big advantage when Mahomes’ OL got wiped out with injuries.

[mr. tegu]

Which of these players would you consider elite? One of them is Burrow. These are all players that have had some good seasons but been okay at best in the post season despite some team success but ultimately they have failed when it matters most. So who is the elite player and who is not? No cheating.

Player 1 season 1
Yards - 6th
Comp % - 18th
Y/A - 7th
Rating - 7th
QBR - 5th
TD - 5th

Player 1 season 2
Yards - 4th
Comp % - 20th
Y/A - 4th
Rating - 8th
QBR - 10th
TD - 8th

Player 2 season 1
Yards - 6th
Comp % - 1st
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 2nd
QBR - 12th
TD - 8th

Player 2 season 2
Yards - 5th
Comp % - 2nd
Y/A - 10th
Rating - 6th
QBR - 10th
TD - 2nd

Player 3 season 1
Yards - 2nd
Comp % - 3rd
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 1st
QBR - 1st
TD - 2nd

Player 3 season 2
Yards - 3rd
Comp % - 4th
Y/A - 8th
Rating - 4th
QBR - 9th
TD - 3rd

Player 4 season 1
Yards - 8th
Comp % - 8th
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 3rd
QBR - 3rd
TD - 6th

Player 4 season 2
Yards - 1st
Comp % - 3rd
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 2nd
QBR - 8th
TD - 2nd

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush

I guess it also depends on how you define "elite". I'm sure many people feel the top 2 or 3 QBs at any given time are elite by default, but I don't. I see nothing from Burrow that we haven't seen before. Smart, accurate, blah blah blah. Might as well add "gritty, brings his lunch pail to work" to his resume'.

This is where I am at.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by DRM08

I mean no QB has a perfect game every time. There are plenty of examples of Tom Brady looking like shit for instance. Chiefs DL finally got some pressure on Burrow. They were aided by the injuries on the Cincy OL, very similar to how Tampa’s pass rush gained a big advantage when Mahomes’ OL got wiped out with injuries.

Look at the whole body of work though.

In his first year as a starter, Mahomes had one of the best 2nd halves in playoff history, forcing the Patriots to overtime only to lose because of the defense.

In his 2nd year as a starter, there was the magical TD run to beat the Titans in the AFCCG and then he hit WASP to win the Super Bowl after being down and seemingly out against the 49ers.

In his 3rd year, against the purportedly unstoppable Bills, he put up 325 yards, 3 TD's and 0 INT's.

The only time he's REALLY choked in a big game situation was last year's AFCCG. And if you want to nitpick, there was the SB against the Bucs.

If you want to break down Josh Allen in the postseason, his resume looks more similar to Mahomes than probably anybody else.

On the other hand, Joe Burrow has done it exactly once and that was last year's AFCCG. He's never really had to do anything special to win in the playoffs. And when they needed him to be special, pick up the team, and will them to victory (against the Rams and again last Sunday) he couldn't do it.

And you can't just blame on the line. Mahomes has been harassed constantly. Both tackles were bottom in the league in pressures given up, yet were near the top in the league in sacks given up.

If Mahomes is elite, then IMHO Burrow CAN'T be.