How does Dwayne Bowe rank among the elite WR's?

[OnTheWarpath15]

Sorry, didn't want this getting overlooked in the other thread. Then again, people will probably ignore it anyway - I know some of you will appreciate this.


I keep seeing people say that Dwayne Bowe isn't an elite WR. So I decided to do some research to see how he matches up statistically over his 5 years in the league.

What I found, is that statistically, Bowe is the 10th best WR of the last 5 years.

I found 9 other WR's that either had better yardage totals, better TD numbers or both. He was 10th in yardage, tied for 6th in TD's.

Here's the list. (Yardage/TD's) Bolded players have fewer or same TD's as Bowe.


Larry Fitzgerald - 6480/49

Roddy White - 6422/42

Reggie Wayne - 6234/36

Wes Welker - 6105/31

Calvin Johnson - 5872/49

Andre Johnson - 5703/35

Greg Jennings - 5539/46

Steve Smith - 5353/29

Marques Colston - 5202/40

Dwayne Bowe - 4927/36


Personally, I think that's impressive on its own.

Especially when you consider the only guy on this list who is younger is Megatron. I'd be curious to see how he matches up to the same players during each of their first 5 seasons.

Anyway, when you compare Bowe's number's to the #1 yardage and #1 TD's - he's not nearly as far off as it seems.

It comes down to 19.41 yard a game, and .16 TD's per game.

Factor in that Bowe is missing something the other 9 have - solid QB play.

After looking at this, its hard for me to say Dwayne Bowe is NOT an elite WR, considering how his numbers match up to the "elite" and never having the benefit of decent QB play.

I'm pretty confident in saying that with solid QB play, Bowe would easily make up 19.41 yards and .16 TD's a game.

Like him or not, he's an elite WR - and has shown it over his 5 years in the league.

Dude deserved elite money.

Or, tl;dr - **** him.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

Albert
Dorsey
Houston

Asamoah
Bailey
Moeaki
Arenas

Plus, Ricky Stanzi is gonna need a 100 million dollar deal in two years!!!

Dude, really?

Please explain how Dwayne Bowe's contract would affect Asamoah, Bailey, Moeaki, Arenas and Houston? Houston and Bailey are second year players! Moeaki was injured and who knows how long he'll stay healthy, Arenas is a 3rd CB at best. NONE will break the bank or even get close to it.

Anyone who "overspends" on Glen Dorsey should be fired immediately. He received Top 5 money when Top 5 money meant $50 million. And if Albert wants Top Tier left tackle money, he can look elsewhere. I like him quite a bit but he's hardly irreplaceable.

Same goes for Dorsey. Like him. Not irreplaceable.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I just don't buy it. If those teams weren't willing to trade for Bowe in 2012, I have a hard time believing they'll be willing in 2013.

I think the Chiefs could snag a late two and possibly an additional 5th or 6th, but not much more. Teams just aren't giving up high picks for veteran receivers.

What?

Brandon Marshall yielded 2 second rounders as a total malcontent...then yielded 2 third rounders this offseason after showing how little he cares about his own team.

If he can yield that, Bowe can pull at least a first.

If we can parlay Bowe into another first and use that to move up for a franchise quarterback, I'll help pack his bags and drive him to the airport.

That's coming from one of Bowes biggest fans on here.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

What?

Brandon Marshall yielded 2 second rounders as a total malcontent...then yielded 2 third rounders this offseason after showing how little he cares about his own team.

If he can yield that, Bowe can pull at least a first.

If we can parlay Bowe into another first and use that to move up for a franchise quarterback, I'll help pack his bags and drive him to the airport.

That's coming from one of Bowes biggest fans on here.

I just don't see it. If that were the case, Bowe would have been before the draft. Don't you think a team like Cleveland would have been a prime contender, considering they just gave up 2013's second rounder for a malcontent mess?

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by BossChief

I was low balling the pick.

To me, I'd move Bowe for a first and a conditional pick and sign a replacement.

Then, you know what I'd do with my two first round picks?

I know what you'd do, but I'm afraid that's not what Pioli would do.

There were similar conversations this off-season, and some floated the idea of offering Bowe + compensation to the Rams for the #2 overall pick and thus secure RGIII.

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Dude, really?

Please explain how Dwayne Bowe's contract would affect Asamoah, Bailey, Moeaki, Arenas and Houston? Houston and Bailey are second year players! Moeaki was injured and who knows how long he'll stay healthy, Arenas is a 3rd CB at best. NONE will break the bank or even get close to it.

Anyone who "overspends" on Glen Dorsey should be fired immediately. He received Top 5 money when Top 5 money meant $50 million. And if Albert wants Top Tier left tackle money, he can look elsewhere. I like him quite a bit but he's hardly irreplaceable.

Same goes for Dorsey. Like him. Not irreplaceable.

I'm trying my best to play devils advocate.

I've said over and over that I think we should have signed Bowe to a 8/100/40-45.

Shit, I was the one who broke everything down a few days ago to come up with those figures by taking CJ and Fitz' production and taking the percentage Of those stats Bowe has accumulated and did the algebra required to come to the "educated guess contract" most are throwing around.

I guess I can understand both sides of this and why both are plausible, is all.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Money isn't and should be an issue. The Chiefs have plenty of room under the salary cap, they can front load the first two years and in 2014, have an additional $18 million to play with. Bowe is young, productive and proven.

You keep saying this, and it's simply not true...

Link

Stagnant salary cap? Pretty much

Although revenues will soar in coming years, cap ceiling won't see significant hike

By John Clayton | ESPN.com

Perhaps the biggest surprise of the 2012 NFL owners meetings is the salary-cap projections.

Starting with the 2014 season, revenues are expected to rise significantly because of increased television dollars and the overall strength of the game. What won't rise much is the salary cap.

After having flat caps of $120.375 million in 2011 and $120.6 million in 2012, the NFL management council told clubs Tuesday that the cap won't increase much in the next three years. In fact, the 2015 cap may go up to only $122 million, according to management council projections.

Although the cap numbers for 2013, 2014 and 2015 still can be negotiated, projections point to very little increase. The cap may rise by only $300,000 in 2013, going to around $120.9 million. Even though increased network television money is coming in 2014, the cap is projected to go only into the $121-plus million range.

If that sounds amazing, consider this: The salary cap in 2009 was $123 million, higher than what is projected to be in 2015.

Where did all the salary-cap money go?

The answer resides in what has happened during the first two seasons of the new collective bargaining agreement. When the management council and the NFL Players Association ran the numbers from the percentage of money going to the players, the salary cap in 2011 was supposed to be less than $120 million. It could have been as low as around $116 million.

To put more salary money into free agency last season, the union was able to shift some of the benefit money into salary money. The result was a $120.375 million cap in 2011.

According to sources, the salary cap was supposed to be around $113.5 million this year. With 427 free agents, a huge cap decrease would have depressed the market and given almost too much contract leverage to teams. The union worked out a deal with the owners to trade off $7.1 million in benefit dollars per team from future years to have a $120.6 million salary cap.

What made things even more palatable for free agents was that approximately $283 million of unused cap dollars from 2011 was selectively rolled over into this year's cap. It's a plus for the players if teams roll over unused cap dollars into the next year, but eventually the flat caps would eat up the annual excess.

Already, it's causing teams to make tough decisions.

Look at the Houston Texans. Coming off their first playoff season, the Texans opted not to re-sign defensive end Mario Williams, cut right tackle Eric Winston and traded linebacker DeMeco Ryans. Instead, they chose to give long-term deals to running back Arian Foster and center Chris Myers.

"I think it's the NFL today; you've got to scout and make good decisions in terms of your contracts,'' Texans general manager Rick Smith said. "You can't afford to make mistakes. Anymore, you got to make sure you can evaluate the guys who fit your system and then go sign those guys. I think as you manage your cap and you manage your team, you got to figure who your core group of players are and keep those guys.''

Smith admits it's a challenge. Losing Williams, Winston and Ryans was tough.

"If we continue to draft well and develop our players that way, we are not going to be able to keep all our players,'' Smith said. "That's just a function of the system. You got to have confidence in the system. You have to have confidence to select the players that fit that you can continue to coach them up and develop them."

Smith came to meetings expecting a flat cap. So did Falcons general manager Thomas Dimitroff. "We are mindful of where the cap was going,'' Dimitroff said. "You have to plan ahead and be mindful that the cap could be flat. You just have to be creative in how you do deals.''

The Falcons made the tough choice of saying goodbye to middle linebacker Curtis Lofton for that reason. Lofton was hoping to get the $8-9 million-a-year deal given to the top inside linebackers in the league. Lofton was a leader of the defense, but he wasn't necessarily a linebacker who is great in coverages on passing downs.

Knowing the future impact of flat caps, the Falcons placed a financial limit to what they would offer Lofton. He opted to sign with the New Orleans Saints. They said goodbye to a former second-round pick who was labeled a success.

The Falcons also have to incorporate signing quarterback Matt Ryan to a contract extension. In a flat cap, there is only so much room for big-ticket contracts.

Players are still hoping for big salary-cap increases in 2014 and 2015, but the numbers aren't going in that direction. A flat cap means tougher negotiations for long-term deals.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by aturnis

You keep saying this, and it's simply not true...

Great. John Clayton, once again, acting as a shill for the owners.



In 2014, there will be an additional $1.2 billion in rights fees paid to the NFL. If the NFL doesn't share that money with the NFLPA, it's going to be a mess. The players most definitely expect the cap to rise in 2014.

[BossChief]

If the owners get more money and the split with the players is a direct percentage of the money the league makes...that means if they make more, the cap will go up.

If it doesnt, the owners are stealing more money from the players.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by BossChief

If the owners get more money and the split with the players is a direct percentage of the money the league makes...that means if they make more, the cap will go up.

If it doesnt, the owners are stealing more money from the players.

Yep. If Clayton's right and the owners try to pull the old "fuzzy math" trick, there's going to be some serious unrest on behalf of the NFLPA.

And despite of all that (2014), the Chiefs could have and should have signed Dwayne Bowe.

[milkman]

There are 5 chefs.

Four of them are given top notch quality ingredients and top of the line kitchens to prepare their meals.

One is given Spam, Top Ramen, a generic label mac and cheese and a hot plate to prepare his.

People come away from the first four meals impressed, as they should be.

People come away from the fifth meal and think, that chef did a damn fine job with the crap he had to work with, but he didn't prepare a gourmet meal.

Well, no shit.

Bowe is that fifth chef.

He has crap to work with, and yet he still does a damn fine job.

Give him the resources of the other 4, and he is right there with them.

So MicJones, you asked earlier in this thread, is Bowe worth a top 4 WR contract?

You damn right, he is.

[aturnis]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

In 2014, there will be an additional $1.2 billion in rights fees paid to the NFL. If the NFL doesn't share that money with the NFLPA, it's going to be a mess. The players most definitely expect the cap to rise in 2014.

Sounds like it's more about the wording in the collective bargaining agreement. If players get upset, it should be with their own lawyers.

"I don't really see that happening," Kraft stated. "I don't think what happened in 2006 will happen in the future here, because if you understand the labor agreement and the long-term part of this, there will be a smooth growth. Anyone who assumes huge jumps, I hope they're in our division."

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by aturnis

Sounds like it's more about the wording in the collective bargaining agreement. If players get upset, it should be with their own lawyers.

You may be right. It seems like they signed on the dotted line without realizing that Roger Goodell is their judge, jury and executioner, so this may be another mistake by De Smith.

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Toad King

What's Scott Pioli's W-L record?

Is it time for a pay cut?

Or just a cut? Seriously, does it take a genius to draft Eric Berry?

[scho63]

Just saw this posted today and if this is already posted but buried among the previous 93 pages I apologize.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, Bowe is second in the NFL on receiving the highest percentage of his team’s red zone targets in the past two seasons. He is ranked over than same time span in red zone receiving touchdowns.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by scho63

Just saw this posted today and if this is already posted but buried among the previous 93 pages I apologize.

According to ESPN Stats & Information, Bowe is second in the NFL on receiving the highest percentage of his team’s red zone targets in the past two seasons. He is ranked over than same time span in red zone receiving touchdowns.

So he's been the only target Cassell has thrown to in the RZ for 2 years? Not sure how to interpret this?