Let's revisit the DL position.

Direckshun · 12-23-2021, 10:16 AM

I think one thing we're learning this season, as if we didn't already know it, is that a phenomenal DL makes your entire defense look outstanding.

More to the point: we've got two Pro Bowl caliber linebackers on this team, and we need to keep them clean.

Other than finding more weapons for Mahomes, this must be the top priority of the offseason.

Under contract, we have:

DE: Clark, Kaindoh
DT: Jones, Wharton
DT: Saunders
DE: Danna

Free agents: DE Melvin Ingram, DE Alex Okafor, DT Jarran Reed, DT Derrick Nnadi

Ideally you want to enter the season with 5 DE, 5 DT.

Here are free agents in 2022.
Here are the draft prospects.

kccrow · 01-11-2022, 10:51 PM

I was thinking about the edge position and what is out there in free agency. Mostly you have some pretty long-in-the-tooth guys that are really any "good."

So, if you want to add some juice I think you have to look at guys turning the corner like Miami did when they picked up Ogbah from us.

The guys that I have in that situation are:

ER Al-Quadin Muhammad (IND)
ER Kemoko Turay (IND)
ER Charles Harris (DET)
ER Dorance Armstrong Jr. (DAL)
ER Arden Key (SF)

So, I'd love to hear opinions on who and why.

Turay is most intriguing to me in terms of length and speed but he has been knicked up alot in his career to date.

Chris Meck · 01-12-2022, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow

I was thinking about the edge position and what is out there in free agency. Mostly you have some pretty long-in-the-tooth guys that are really any "good."

So, if you want to add some juice I think you have to look at guys turning the corner like Miami did when they picked up Ogbah from us.

The guys that I have in that situation are:

ER Al-Quadin Muhammad (IND)
ER Kemoko Turay (IND)
ER Charles Harris (DET)
ER Dorance Armstrong Jr. (DAL)
ER Arden Key (SF)

So, I'd love to hear opinions on who and why.

Turay is most intriguing to me in terms of length and speed but he has been knicked up alot in his career to date.

I don't know anything really about those specific guys but I think you're on the right track.

I'd put it more into 3 categories though:

1)guys about to turn the corner
2) guys that are long in the tooth but may have something left
3)draftees

If it's up to me, I'm letting Clark walk. Outrageously expensive, mediocre production.

I'd re-sign Ingram in a heartbeat. He's a category 2 guy, but clearly has some juice left.

You still need two guys to go with Danna, who's a rotational guy, and Kaindoh, who's an unknown but was always a project. Oh, and don't forget the kid from Georgia who was basically an injury red-shirt...I forget his name right now. But still, that's just a project too.

I'd love to have Ogbah back.

I think you probably need to go DE in round one, and there should be some real talent there where we pick.

And I'd personally look for another "long in the tooth" category 2 guy that's a high effort guy like Ingram to show the pups how it's done.

I don't think Nnadi is getting a big money deal; he's kind of just a rotational guy but at any rate, it seems that he and Saunders are interchangeable.

This is where having some extra 3rds should EB and Poles get jobs elsewhere, because an injection of some athleticism would go a long way inside.

Other than that, it's probably category #2 guys because you also desperately need upgrades to Sorensen/Niemann.

And if you let Mathieu go, that's 2/3 of your safety room.

Direckshun · 01-12-2022, 10:50 AM

I don't think Nnadi and Saunders are interchangeable. Saunders is a waste.

I think Nnadi will be cheap to bring back, but I'd rather invest in bringing back Reed. Having that extra passrusher makes the DL that much better. Every passrusher on the DL is a force multiplier.

O.city · 01-12-2022, 11:46 AM

I really like Derek Barnett.

Chris Meck · 01-12-2022, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I don't think Nnadi and Saunders are interchangeable. Saunders is a waste.

I think Nnadi will be cheap to bring back, but I'd rather invest in bringing back Reed. Having that extra passrusher makes the DL that much better. Every passrusher on the DL is a force multiplier.

I think he's basically Nnadi, and they don't need two of that guy.

DJ's left nut · 01-13-2022, 10:50 AM

Turay was looking like he was turning a corner right before he broke his leg vs. the Chiefs. I really liked him. Then last year he got hurt again and this year he stayed pretty healthy but just wasn't very good.

I think the injury may have really wrecked his ceiling.

I'd be intrigued by Key. He was the best pass rusher on that abysmal Raiders pass rush a couple years ago. While he could never finish a sack off, he generated pretty decent pressure. With no help it was just too easy for the QB to move away from him. I think he's probably a 6-8 sack/season guy with a decent complement (Jones) on the line with him.

I like Armstrong's age but I think he's just kind of a mauler. He's nothing that's going to really jump out.

I liked Rasheem Green a couple years back and he got some sacks this year. I'd kick the tires but he seems like another guy that plateaued and will likely disappoint.

Ogbah appears likely to hit FA again. Harris is a little undersized but might be useful in a rotation. We can be like the 8th team to be disappointed by Dante Fowler Jr?

Toad · 01-13-2022, 12:47 PM

DE…
Unless Clark reduces his salary significantly, he gone.
Okafor is gone.

Over the cap has Ogbah’s avg annual valuation at $12.9mm. He’s had 9 sacks each of the last 2 years with the dolphins. IF they could get him for $10-11mm per, I’d take a shot.

Ingram is valued at $4mm per. That seems fair based on sack production. Pull that trigger.

Gotta spend a high pick (1st or 2nd) on the position in the draft.

DJ's left nut · 01-13-2022, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toad

DE…
Unless Clark reduces his salary significantly, he gone.
Okafor is gone.

Over the cap has Ogbah’s avg annual valuation at $12.9mm. He’s had 9 sacks each of the last 2 years with the dolphins. IF they could get him for $10-11mm per, I’d take a shot.

Ingram is valued at $4mm per. That seems fair based on sack production. Pull that trigger.

Gotta spend a high pick (1st or 2nd) on the position in the draft.

Pass rusher seems pretty similar to QB.

Go big or go home. Once you get out of the 1st round (and really, typically the top half of the first round) your odds of finding a difference maker plummet. And then from about the middle of round 2 through round 5, all those picks are little more than punchers chances.

Finding quality pass rushers is hard as hell. That's why it surprises me how many of these older veterans end up settling for 1-2 year deals.

I thought the Bengals got an awfully nice deal on Trey Hendrickson at what is effectively 3/$44 million last season. To get a double digit sack guy with speed and strength for less than $15 million/season is a pretty good grab.

CoMoChief · 01-13-2022, 04:26 PM

Completely whiffing on Speaks and KPass and letting Ogbah go was a real kick in the nuts for this defense.

poolboy · 01-13-2022, 07:28 PM

seemed like our DL in Denver was gassed...altitude?

DJ's left nut · 01-14-2022, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Completely whiffing on Speaks and KPass and letting Ogbah go was a real kick in the nuts for this defense.

Eh - Kpassagnon wasn't a 'whiff' - just a fairly ordinary 2nd round pick.

Guys like Malik McDowell, Forrest Lamp, Quincy Wilson, Ryan Anderson, Demarcus Walker, Deshone Kizer, Obi Mlifonwu, on and on and on are more 'whiffs'. The 2nd round is about 2/3 guys who don't ever become meaningful difference makers every year.

My preference among available DL that year when we took KPass was Chris Wormley and he's effectively been the same player as K-Pass has (and he didn't really do anything for Baltimore; he's only been valuable in Pitt).

Tanoh was a solid rotational player who had a massive play for us in the SB. He was actually playing quite well for NOLA before getting hurt. He wasn't a bust, he was just not any sort difference maker.

O.city · 01-14-2022, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Eh - Kpassagnon wasn't a 'whiff' - just a fairly ordinary 2nd round pick.

Guys like Malik McDowell, Forrest Lamp, Quincy Wilson, Ryan Anderson, Demarcus Walker, Deshone Kizer, Obi Mlifonwu, on and on and on are more 'whiffs'. The 2nd round is about 2/3 guys who don't ever become meaningful difference makers every year.

My preference among available DL that year when we took KPass was Chris Wormley and he's effectively been the same player as K-Pass has (and he didn't really do anything for Baltimore; he's only been valuable in Pitt).

Tanoh was a solid rotational player who had a massive play for us in the SB. He was actually playing quite well for NOLA before getting hurt. He wasn't a bust, he was just not any sort difference maker.

Kpass with Kamara on the board is always gonna be irritating.

DJ's left nut · 01-14-2022, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

Kpass with Kamara on the board is always gonna be irritating.

Oh for sure.

But if you're going to grade him in a vacuum, he wasn't a bust. He was just another pretty basic 2nd round pick.

DJ's left nut · 01-15-2022, 12:10 PM

A guy I kinda like out of Carolina is a dude named Frankie Luvu.

He's undersized for a true End but could play a situational rusher role more of a Leo. He's aggressive as hell and racks up a fair amount of TFLs along with solid pass rush win numbers. He also got some attention for Special Teams in the All Pro voting.

He'll be a UFA this season and I'd imagine he'll be awfully cheap. As a core STs player and possible situational edge rusher that I think is capable of generating pressures and getting 6+ sacks with more playing time, I think he'd be an awfully nice, cost effective fit.

Give him a 2 year deal at around $5 million total and I think he'd FAR outplay it. Especially if you can get him 25+ defensive snaps/gm.

12-23-2021, 10:16 AM
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4263447	Let's revisit the DL position. I think one thing we're learning this season, as if we didn't already know it, is that a phenomenal DL makes your entire defense look outstanding. More to the point: we've got two Pro Bowl caliber linebackers on this team, and we need to keep them clean. Other than finding more weapons for Mahomes, this must be the top priority of the offseason. Under contract, we have: DE: Clark, Kaindoh DT: Jones, Wharton DT: Saunders DE: Danna Free agents: DE Melvin Ingram, DE Alex Okafor, DT Jarran Reed, DT Derrick Nnadi Ideally you want to enter the season with 5 DE, 5 DT. Here are free agents in 2022. Here are the draft prospects.
Posts: 59,299

01-12-2022, 10:50 AM	#4
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $4263447	I don't think Nnadi and Saunders are interchangeable. Saunders is a waste. I think Nnadi will be cheap to bring back, but I'd rather invest in bringing back Reed. Having that extra passrusher makes the DL that much better. Every passrusher on the DL is a force multiplier.
Posts: 59,299

01-12-2022, 11:46 AM	#5
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2614064	I really like Derek Barnett.
Posts: 81,350	1 0

01-13-2022, 10:50 AM	#7
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $2859099	Turay was looking like he was turning a corner right before he broke his leg vs. the Chiefs. I really liked him. Then last year he got hurt again and this year he stayed pretty healthy but just wasn't very good. I think the injury may have really wrecked his ceiling. I'd be intrigued by Key. He was the best pass rusher on that abysmal Raiders pass rush a couple years ago. While he could never finish a sack off, he generated pretty decent pressure. With no help it was just too easy for the QB to move away from him. I think he's probably a 6-8 sack/season guy with a decent complement (Jones) on the line with him. I like Armstrong's age but I think he's just kind of a mauler. He's nothing that's going to really jump out. I liked Rasheem Green a couple years back and he got some sacks this year. I'd kick the tires but he seems like another guy that plateaued and will likely disappoint. Ogbah appears likely to hit FA again. Harris is a little undersized but might be useful in a rotation. We can be like the 8th team to be disappointed by Dante Fowler Jr? __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,626

01-13-2022, 12:47 PM	#8
Toad Pepsi, cheeburger, chip Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Location: Location Casino cash: $1934810	DE… Unless Clark reduces his salary significantly, he gone. Okafor is gone. Over the cap has Ogbah’s avg annual valuation at $12.9mm. He’s had 9 sacks each of the last 2 years with the dolphins. IF they could get him for $10-11mm per, I’d take a shot. Ingram is valued at $4mm per. That seems fair based on sack production. Pull that trigger. Gotta spend a high pick (1st or 2nd) on the position in the draft. __________________ Pepsi, cheeburger, chip
Posts: 1,238	1 0

01-11-2022, 10:51 PM	#2
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $3107078	I was thinking about the edge position and what is out there in free agency. Mostly you have some pretty long-in-the-tooth guys that are really any "good." So, if you want to add some juice I think you have to look at guys turning the corner like Miami did when they picked up Ogbah from us. The guys that I have in that situation are: ER Al-Quadin Muhammad (IND) ER Kemoko Turay (IND) ER Charles Harris (DET) ER Dorance Armstrong Jr. (DAL) ER Arden Key (SF) So, I'd love to hear opinions on who and why. Turay is most intriguing to me in terms of length and speed but he has been knicked up alot in his career to date.
Posts: 12,675

01-13-2022, 04:26 PM	#10
CoMoChief Mahomes Dynasty Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Parts Unknown Casino cash: $8042254	Completely whiffing on Speaks and KPass and letting Ogbah go was a real kick in the nuts for this defense. __________________
Posts: 39,163

01-13-2022, 07:28 PM	#11
poolboy Veteran Join Date: Feb 2019 Casino cash: $1480400	seemed like our DL in Denver was gassed...altitude?
Posts: 2,701

01-15-2022, 12:10 PM	#15
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $2859099	A guy I kinda like out of Carolina is a dude named Frankie Luvu. He's undersized for a true End but could play a situational rusher role more of a Leo. He's aggressive as hell and racks up a fair amount of TFLs along with solid pass rush win numbers. He also got some attention for Special Teams in the All Pro voting. He'll be a UFA this season and I'd imagine he'll be awfully cheap. As a core STs player and possible situational edge rusher that I think is capable of generating pressures and getting 6+ sacks with more playing time, I think he'd be an awfully nice, cost effective fit. Give him a 2 year deal at around $5 million total and I think he'd FAR outplay it. Especially if you can get him 25+ defensive snaps/gm. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,626