Home Discord Chat
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > Nzoner's Game Room
Register FAQDonate Members List Calendar

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2019, 08:06 AM  
Mama Hip Rockets Mama Hip Rockets is offline
You don't faze me, Gobble.
 
Mama Hip Rockets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Casino cash: $10005644
*** Official 2019 Kansas City Royals Repository ***

Get the offseason thread out of here. It's on!

Opening day roster:

Catchers (2): Cam Gallagher, Martin Maldonado

Infielders (7): Hunter Dozier, Lucas Duda, Whit Merrifield, Adalberto Mondesi, Ryan O’Hearn, Chris Owings, Frank Schwindel

Outfielders (4): Alex Gordon, Terrance Gore, Billy Hamilton, Jorge Soler

Starting pitchers (3): Jakob Junis, Brad Keller, Jorge Lopez

Relief pitchers (9): Scott Barlow, Brad Boxberger, Jake Diekman, Chris Ellis, Tim Hill, Ian Kennedy, Kevin McCarthy, Wily Peralta, Kyle Zimmer

Injured list: Danny Duffy, Brian Flynn, Jesse Hahn, Salvador Perez

Suspended: Eric Skoglund

Last edited by Mama Hip Rockets; 03-28-2019 at 10:36 AM..
Posts: 13,675
Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.Mama Hip Rockets is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 06:56 PM   #2311
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is online now
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $1760308
Singer had two Ks. One was against Nolan Gorman, the guy the Cardinals took directly after Singer last year (who started out on fire but has struggled at High A).
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,085
duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 08:00 PM   #2312
KChiefs1 KChiefs1 is offline
I’m a Mahomo!
 
KChiefs1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mid-Missouri
Casino cash: $6771021
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Gore is untouchable.



Patino as the centerpiece instead of Urias would work tho.

Patino looked good tonight.
__________________
Posts: 54,038
KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 08:13 PM   #2313
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is online now
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $1760308
Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefs1 View Post
Patino looked good tonight.

He might be untouchable too.
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,085
duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 09:26 PM   #2314
Al Bundy Al Bundy is offline
Damnit Peg
 
Al Bundy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Overland Park
Casino cash: $5381831

Posts: 23,316
Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Al Bundy has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2019, 09:40 PM   #2315
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is online now
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $1760308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Bundy View Post

Would guess this means Phillips to KC, replacing Gore, and Lee to Omaha.

Lee had a great June (power, OBP, defense) but still an aggressive promotion for him.
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,085
duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 09:42 AM   #2316
dallaschiefsfan dallaschiefsfan is offline
Herm is the worst...horrible
 
dallaschiefsfan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Casino cash: $4428850
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Would guess this means Phillips to KC, replacing Gore, and Lee to Omaha.

Lee had a great June (power, OBP, defense) but still an aggressive promotion for him.
While I'm doubtful Lee wins RF outright in ST '20, I'm really hoping his development indicates he'll be in KC at some point next summer. And Kower...goodness...he hits KC next Summer as well, right? Singer as well.

I'm curious...what do you make of the resurgence of prospects that had fallen off the radar vs. guys that were expected to take next steps this year. It feels like for every Pratto and Melendez disappointment, there are a few pleasant surprises. Nobody saw Dozier doing what he's doing. Gutierrez always had the glove, but his bat has been surprising for me. Is Cuthy a prospect again? Dini is a surprise to me as well. Starling, of course. (EDIT: How did I forget Cancel? Another one I didn't see coming). It feels like the "next wave" is much more of a mix of prior prospects and the '18 pitchers than the 2019 Wilmington wave we were expecting. It just seems like it's bee a weird/unexpected year with the Royals' minor leagues.
__________________

Last edited by dallaschiefsfan; 07-08-2019 at 09:55 AM..
Posts: 2,012
dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 09:43 AM   #2317
FringeNC FringeNC is offline
MVP
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: NC
Casino cash: $1806014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan View Post
While I'm doubtful Lee wins RF outright in ST '20, I'm really hoping his development indicates he'll be in KC at some point next summer. And Kower...goodness...he hits KC next Summer as well, right? Singer as well.

I'm curious...what do you make of the resurgence of prospects that had fallen off the radar vs. guys that were expected to take next steps this year. It feels like for every Pratto and Melendez disappointment, there are a few pleasant surprises. Nobody saw Dozier doing what he's doing. Gutierrez always had the glove, but his bat has been surprising for me. Is Cuthy a prospect again? Dini is a surprise to me as well. Starling, of course. It feels like the "next wave" is much more of a mix of prior prospects and the '18 pitchers than the 2019 Wilmington wave we were expecting. It just seems like it's bee a weird/unexpected year with the Royals' minor leagues.
Lee won't play center?
Posts: 10,171
FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 09:55 AM   #2318
dallaschiefsfan dallaschiefsfan is offline
Herm is the worst...horrible
 
dallaschiefsfan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Casino cash: $4428850
Quote:
Originally Posted by FringeNC View Post
Lee won't play center?
He can...but I think most people believe he'll land in RF at the MLB level. I'm guessing Starling gets first shot at CF next year. His defense alone is helpful for pitchers. If he can contribute there, he'll have a decent leash on his offense.
__________________
Posts: 2,012
dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.dallaschiefsfan has just been standing around suckin' on a big ol' chili dog.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 10:18 AM   #2319
Titty Meat Titty Meat is offline
Inmem 2.0
 
Titty Meat's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: My house
Casino cash: $2287558
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
All about getting the right price in return.

And while those three have been disappointing, Lee, Igliotto, and Isbel have not. Gabe Cancel is also someone worth watching (2B leading the Texas league in HR and 2B, very Jonathan Schoop-ish).
What difference does it make regarding the "right" price? He will be 34 by the time they compete. Should have done that with Duffy & Perez too.
Posts: 75,146
Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.Titty Meat is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 10:59 AM   #2320
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is online now
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $1760308
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan View Post
He can...but I think most people believe he'll land in RF at the MLB level. I'm guessing Starling gets first shot at CF next year. His defense alone is helpful for pitchers. If he can contribute there, he'll have a decent leash on his offense.

Lee projects as an average CF but his speed and range and arm would make him an above-average RF. Would also guess Starling starts 2020 as the everyday CF unless he’s just awful at the plate when he gets called up this year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan View Post
While I'm doubtful Lee wins RF outright in ST '20, I'm really hoping his development indicates he'll be in KC at some point next summer. And Kower...goodness...he hits KC next Summer as well, right? Singer as well.

I'm curious...what do you make of the resurgence of prospects that had fallen off the radar vs. guys that were expected to take next steps this year. It feels like for every Pratto and Melendez disappointment, there are a few pleasant surprises. Nobody saw Dozier doing what he's doing. Gutierrez always had the glove, but his bat has been surprising for me. Is Cuthy a prospect again? Dini is a surprise to me as well. Starling, of course. (EDIT: How did I forget Cancel? Another one I didn't see coming). It feels like the "next wave" is much more of a mix of prior prospects and the '18 pitchers than the 2019 Wilmington wave we were expecting. It just seems like it's bee a weird/unexpected year with the Royals' minor leagues.

If Lee is pushed to Omaha now, it puts him on easy track for a June/July promotion to the majors next year, assuming he has success with the bat at Omaha.

Kowar seems to be starting to put it together. He reminds me a lot of Michael Wacha - mid-90s heat, great changeup, and an iffy breaking ball. He has shown some progress with it, which is encouraging. If he can get that to being a usable pitch against RH hitters, it helps him a bunch.

I don’t know that midseason next year happens - he needs to make it through Omaha - but it’s possible.

I’ve said a bunch that prospect development, especially for hitters, is not a linear progression all the time. Dozier and Starling are perhaps examples of that.

Cuthbert is a non-prospect and is a AAAA guy unless he shows a lot more.

I’m intrigued by Dini’s power profile.

As for Melendez, Matias, and Pratto, there’s no sugar coating the worrying about their start to this year. Both Pratto and Melendez started putting things together in June, though the K rate is still alarmingly high. There’s still hope there if they keep that up through year end.

Cancel is under the radar, but if he can stick at 2B his bat is useful. Any time you lead your league in HR it’s encouraging, and that’s what he is doing. I mentioned Jon Schoop as a potential comparison not sure Cancel has that type of arm to let him stick at 2B.

Kyle Isbel is back and raking. He looks like a real 3rd round steal thus far. Same with Gigliotti.

It’s encouraging to see the Royals land some hitters in later rounds that are producing and becoming interesting. They haven’t done that before without going overslot.

I think they’ve really hit a nice formula focusing on college arms and bats the past few years. They also have shifted to looking for HS guys with more polished plate skills. It’s working, IMO.

I’m hoping we see Pena at Idaho Falls this summer (they did that with Mondesi). I’m anxious to get some pro scouting and video on him.

I think it’s going to be a top 1/2 system by year end, especially if Isbel continues to crush the ball. He’ll make it into top 100 lists and Lee, Kowar, Singer, Lynch, Bubic, all have cases as well. Witt will likely get in just based on his draft position, too. And McConnell has debuted well enough to have a shot.
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,085
duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.
Thumbs Up 1 Thumbs Down 0     Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 11:08 AM   #2321
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is online now
M-I-Z-Z-O-U
 
duncan_idaho's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Kansas City
Casino cash: $1760308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titty Meat View Post
What difference does it make regarding the "right" price? He will be 34 by the time they compete. Should have done that with Duffy & Perez too.

Because there’s no point in trading really good players for marginal returns. Trading players like Merrifield or Perez in a trade built around a back 25 of the top 100 prospect is just a roll of the dice. Once you’re outside the top 25-30 prospects, the bust rate is super high.

Bonifacio, Cuthbert, Chris Dwyer, Seuly Matias ... all guys who ranked in that area at one point. Colon, too.

Merrifield is on an incredibly team-friendly deal and has a good shot at being a 1.5-2 win player at ages 33 and 34.

If all teams aren’t offering a return commensurate with his skills, then wait until someone does. The Royals don’t need to add depth pieces to their system. They need to add impact talent. Merrifield dan and should command that.

Trading guys for the best package you can get right now because you’ve decided you have to trade them is a great way to sell low and get returns that leave naysayers bashing trades in hindsight.
__________________
"You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass."
---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,085
duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.duncan_idaho is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 01:01 PM   #2322
tk13 tk13 is offline
...
 
tk13's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2001
Casino cash: $1992500
Whit is such a good hitter I wouldn't be surprised if he's still a good hitter at 34 or 35. It's highly likely he won't be a big base stealer by then, but given he's less a power guy and more of an old school .300 hitter type, he may very well still be good.

It's easy to compare him to Zobrist because they were both late bloomers who play all over the field, and Zobrist helped us win a World Series at 34. Same kind of thing, Zobrist wasn't a base stealer anymore but he was a machine at the plate.

Plus Whit is super cheap. I really think you have to get multiple top prospects otherwise it doesn't make sense.
Posts: 54,944
tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.tk13 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
Thumbs Up 2 Thumbs Down 0     Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 01:11 PM   #2323
FringeNC FringeNC is offline
MVP
 

Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: NC
Casino cash: $1806014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan View Post
He can...but I think most people believe he'll land in RF at the MLB level. I'm guessing Starling gets first shot at CF next year. His defense alone is helpful for pitchers. If he can contribute there, he'll have a decent leash on his offense.
I know our pitching sucks, but so does our ability to hit for power. At this point, is it really likely Starling will hit major league pitching? I mean he'll hit better than Hamilton, but a 46-year old Neifi Perez could, too. Starling should have been called up a month ago -- I' rooting for the guy, but...
Posts: 10,171
FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.FringeNC would the whole thing.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 02:10 PM   #2324
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
Rabbi Goldmann
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Casino cash: $5450159
65 players ever had a 50 wRC+ or lower as a regular. 13,018 player seasons. Hamilton is at 50. Nice job Dayton, nice pickup you klutz. At least we won’t bring up Bubba, he might not hit
Posts: 87,025
Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.Prison Bitch is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2019, 11:04 PM   #2325
KChiefs1 KChiefs1 is offline
I’m a Mahomo!
 
KChiefs1's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mid-Missouri
Casino cash: $6771021
Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Because there’s no point in trading really good players for marginal returns. Trading players like Merrifield or Perez in a trade built around a back 25 of the top 100 prospect is just a roll of the dice. Once you’re outside the top 25-30 prospects, the bust rate is super high.

Bonifacio, Cuthbert, Chris Dwyer, Seuly Matias ... all guys who ranked in that area at one point. Colon, too.

Then there is really no point in trading Whit. Most teams won’t trade top 25 prospects & with Whit being a proven all-star on a team friendly deal...we would need one of those guys.
__________________
Posts: 54,038
KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.KChiefs1 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
    Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:41 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
Fort Worth Texas Process Servers
Covering Arlington, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie and surrounding communities.
Tarrant County, Texas and Johnson County, Texas.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.