How long do you plan on wearing a mask in public?

[TLO]

Poll incoming. Please try to keep it non political so it doesn't get moved to DC.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Here's the problem with that.

In this state, we did what the government asked, shutdown and masked up by and large and in return, the government did what they said they would do and lifted restrictions.

That's not happening everywhere. When people are being told that NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO normalcy is not imminent, do you expect them to soldier on or do you expect them to say "**** it" and give up, especially if they were on the fence to begin with?

The government, at all levels, needs to be more transparent about this and stop using it as a bludgeoning tool.

Yeah, my problem with it for the past year is once we shut down for no measurable metric, then how do we know when to open up again?

Of course, "a lot of people are dying" is a good reason, but a pretty worthless metric.

And maybe those metrics have been used all along, but like you said, there's just not enough transparency.

I see your point for say, mask wearing... you're told to wear a mask to help the spread, so if you're told again and again that you'll be wearing a mask forever, you might say **** it. And we've always known some masks are in the ~30-40% effective range, and some people hate things that aren't in absolutes.

The vaccine though? Nobody knows what that looks like for the future.... they're still doing studies on how well it prevents spread and what not. So, I would laugh at any leader who said the vaccine won't get us back to normal, just like I'd laugh at anyone who said the vaccine is guaranteed to get us back to normal. And while it's not an absolute, 95%+ is pretty damn effective and is of course by far the best chance for normalcy.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yeah, my problem with it for the past year is once we shut down for no measurable metric, then how do we know when to open up again?

Of course, "a lot of people are dying" is a good reason, but a pretty worthless metric.

And maybe those metrics have been used all along, but like you said, there's just not enough transparency.

The original federal reopening plan was based on numbers and in phases, just like many states. One of the metrics was sustained decrease in new cases for at least two weeks, for example. Positivity as well.

[RealSNR]

"But it was done so quickly! It's fishy that they came up with this stuff in only a year!"

How much funding did those research institutions receive in the past, and how much effort/urgency was placed towards solving/researching a specific problem like this? Research DOES take time, but damn it sure speeds up when you go from three scientists and a tech or two to hundreds of people just in the area of research and development for a specific vaccine.

The same thing goes for testing and trials. You have participants in testing, but they all have to be managed and monitored by somebody. If you've got an explosion of people to work the distribution and administration of the trials to participants, that phase will be done in much less time.

The only "shortcuts" that have been taken are through government red tape. All of the other safety measures for introducing new medical tech have been followed.

mRNA vaccines ain't going away. This is just the start of them. You may as well get used to it, because in the next 10 years this technology is going to be widely used in medicine, and not just for new strains of COVID-19, either.

[KCUnited]

From the Restore Illinois plan:

"All sectors of the economy reopen with new health and hygiene practices permanently in place."

That says to me all things are on a TBD basis

[mr. tegu]

Originally Posted by RunKC

1.When I’m vaccinated
2. When over 85% of the country is fully vaccinated
3. When deaths are pretty much done

I will not wear a mask anymore when that happens. I project that to happen sometime this summer

Goal #2 is laughably unrealistic. As is any notion if any significant amount of people getting boosters every year.

[AdolfOliverBush]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

"But it was done so quickly! It's fishy that they came up with this stuff in only a year!"

How much funding did those research institutions receive in the past, and how much effort/urgency was placed towards solving/researching a specific problem like this? Research DOES take time, but damn it sure speeds up when you go from three scientists and a tech or two to hundreds of people just in the area of research and development for a specific vaccine.

The same thing goes for testing and trials. You have participants in testing, but they all have to be managed and monitored by somebody. If you've got an explosion of people to work the distribution and administration of the trials to participants, that phase will be done in much less time.

The only "shortcuts" that have been taken are through government red tape. All of the other safety measures for introducing new medical tech have been followed.

mRNA vaccines ain't going away. This is just the start of them. You may as well get used to it, because in the next 10 years this technology is going to be widely used in medicine, and not just for new strains of COVID-19, either.

Wait just a damn minute...are you suggesting that a large group of people can complete a task more quickly than a small group of people?? I call bullshit!

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Donger

The original federal reopening plan was based on numbers and in phases, just like many states. One of the metrics was sustained decrease in new cases for at least two weeks, for example. Positivity as well.

Yeah... I shouldn't have said "maybe", I know they're out there, it would just be nice for the next worldwide pandemic if there were at some point specific and country-wide metrics to say when there would be a mask mandate, reduced capacity, shut things down, etc.... and then basically in reverse for reopening.... of course based on complicated math of contagiousness and what not, with pretty graphs and stuff. And then broadly communicated.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by KCUnited

From the Restore Illinois plan:

"All sectors of the economy reopen with new health and hygiene practices permanently in place."

That says to me all things are on a TBD basis

Yeah, they really need to explain exactly what that entails. Hopefully, it's old.

[Spott]

By in public do you mean indoor places like restaurants and grocery stores, or do you mean walking around outside in general?

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Yeah... I shouldn't have said "maybe", I know they're out there, it would just be nice for the next worldwide pandemic if there were at some point specific and country-wide metrics to say when there would be a mask mandate, reduced capacity, shut things down, etc.... and then basically in reverse for reopening.... of course based on complicated math of contagiousness and what not, with pretty graphs and stuff. And then broadly communicated.

I was going to respond similarly.

Notice that Donger said "many states". There's a lack of uniformity in both approach and communication of approach and it creates both confusion and sometimes resentment.

But then we're getting into a political argument about who has ultimate authority in cases like this and I'm not going there, at least not today.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

"But it was done so quickly! It's fishy that they came up with this stuff in only a year!"

How much funding did those research institutions receive in the past, and how much effort/urgency was placed towards solving/researching a specific problem like this? Research DOES take time, but damn it sure speeds up when you go from three scientists and a tech or two to hundreds of people just in the area of research and development for a specific vaccine.

The same thing goes for testing and trials. You have participants in testing, but they all have to be managed and monitored by somebody. If you've got an explosion of people to work the distribution and administration of the trials to participants, that phase will be done in much less time.

The only "shortcuts" that have been taken are through government red tape. All of the other safety measures for introducing new medical tech have been followed.

mRNA vaccines ain't going away. This is just the start of them. You may as well get used to it, because in the next 10 years this technology is going to be widely used in medicine, and not just for new strains of COVID-19, either.

The federal government is unspeakably large, so when it prioritizes something and puts its shoulder to the wheel, things move. Here's an old example of US airplane production in WWII.

1940 - 3,611
1941 - 18,466
1942 - 46,907
1943 - 84,853
1944 - 96,270

I idly wonder if the government should just pick one problem every year and throw themselves into it. In a couple of decades we'd be an interstellar civilization.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I was going to respond similarly.

Notice that Donger said "many states". There's a lack of uniformity in both approach and communication of approach and it creates both confusion and sometimes resentment.

But then we're getting into a political argument about who has ultimate authority in cases like this and I'm not going there, at least not today.

I can't think of a single state that doesn't have a "reopening" plan. Maybe there are some. But, all the ones I've looked at are basically the same: phased reopening based on numbers.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I was going to respond similarly.

Notice that Donger said "many states". There's a lack of uniformity in both approach and communication of approach and it creates both confusion and sometimes resentment.

But then we're getting into a political argument about who has ultimate authority in cases like this and I'm not going there, at least not today.

Yeah, it would be so much easier if you could quickly look up "LA County is in Defcon 1" while knowing exactly what that means, whether it's California or Delaware.

But, we get ridiculousness like Kansas "requiring" a 14 day quarantine after traveling, but Missouri not, while the vast majority of travelers go through KCI on the MO side and wouldn't even know about a KS travel restriction, much less have any reason to follow it.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Donger

I can't think of a single state that doesn't have a "reopening" plan. Maybe there are some. But, all the ones I've looked at are basically the same: phased reopening based on numbers.

The problem is that not all states are based on the same numbers and some states even interpret the numbers differently or bases them on different ways the data is acquired (e.g. positive tests).

Nor do all states have the same reopening plan with similar phases, timing, or even definitions.

I'm not saying it's the end of the world but I can totally see how it's confusing to some and frustrating to many.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The problem is that not all states are based on the same numbers and some states even interpret the numbers differently or bases them on different ways the data is acquired (e.g. positive tests).

Nor do all states have the same reopening plan with similar phases, timing, or even definitions.

I'm not saying it's the end of the world but I can totally see how it's confusing to some and frustrating to many.

It seems like you are advocating that the federal plan be used everywhere. I would have preferred that myself, for the most part, but we are a very diverse country. I'm not sure that what makes sense for New York makes sense for Wyoming.