Cardinals 2018 STL Cardinals Thread - Page 223

**BigRedChief** · 02:21 PM

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018

Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

VAChief · 08-27-2018, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Russell was never hyped as a hitter. Ever.

He has always been a guy that has been labeled as "if" at the plate with the assumption that maturing will bring his bat up to speed. Even in his "good" offensive year he was just a 94 wRC+ hitter. That's only 8 points higher than his current numbers. Now you could credit the decline in power this year to his shoulder and finger because it was clearly bothering him because just above every swing he took his lead hand was flying off the bat.

Regardless, I would be very surprised to see him on the Cubs next year. Theo has already moved past protecting Russell in trade rumors and has actively thrown his name out, according to rumors from insiders and anonymous exec's.

Really? Ever?

http://mlbtopprospects.com/2014/12/addison-russell-bio/

https://www.mlb.com/news/bernie-ples...top/c-58486746

https://chicagocubsonline.com/archiv...-cubs-farm.php

DJ's left nut · 08-27-2018, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Russell was never hyped as a hitter. Ever.

He has always been a guy that has been labeled as "if" at the plate with the assumption that maturing will bring his bat up to speed. Even in his "good" offensive year he was just a 94 wRC+ hitter. That's only 8 points higher than his current numbers. Now you could credit the decline in power this year to his shoulder and finger because it was clearly bothering him because just above every swing he took his lead hand was flying off the bat.

Regardless, I would be very surprised to see him on the Cubs next year. Theo has already moved past protecting Russell in trade rumors and has actively thrown his name out, according to rumors from insiders and anonymous exec's.

You're going to claim that Addison Russell was the #3(ish) prospect in baseball on the strength of his defensive prowess?

FFS - you can't even concede that any part of your precious 'young core' has been a disappointment. Russell's had one of the worst 'performance vs.pedigree' ratios in the game over the last 3 years.

People absolutely believed Russell would be a premier hitter - he just hasn't been since he got into your system.

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 02:36 PM

A "gap power" hitter that was traded because the A's didn't believe it would translate and so far they were right.

He's still only 24 but I dont think you'll ever hope for more than average from Russell.

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

You're going to claim that Addison Russell was the #3(ish) prospect in baseball on the strength of his defensive prowess?

FFS - you can't even concede that any part of your precious 'young core' has been a disappointment. Russell's had one of the worst 'performance vs.pedigree' ratios on the game over the last 3 years.

People absolutely believed Russell would be a premier hitter - he just hasn't been since he got into your system.

Are you obtuse?

Why would I be all about trading Russell if I didn't believe he's been a "disappointment"?

Russell and Ian Happ are the only 2 disappointments. I don't really blame Ian Happ, though. He had no business even making it to the majors in the Cubs organization. Everyone else has met or exceeded expectations.

DJ's left nut · 08-27-2018, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Are you obtuse?

Why would I be all about trading Russell if I didn't believe he's been a "disappointment"?

Says the guy who couldn't remain logically consistent for a 2 post span...

How can you say he's been a disappointment if his glove is so sterling and he " was never hyped as a hitter. Ever."?

If all he was supposed to be was Jose Iglesias, then he's right on track, right?

I'm not the one that overplayed my hand here...

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 02:45 PM

Russell was a guy that was suppose to get you stellar defense and hit for average with maybe 10-15 HR's a year. That was his expectations. He's given you the defense with a bit of an issue when it comes to throwing errors but he's never reached that average hitter status.

So you are asking why he's been a disappointment? Because he's never reached being an average hitter. It's been 4 years now with no signs of improvement.

Does that work for you, sunshine?

On the vast majority of teams you could live with what Russell gives you. But the Cubs can just as easily move Baez to SS and put Ben Zobrist/Ian Happ/David Bote/Tommy La Stella at 2nd.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-27-2018, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Russell was a guy that was suppose to get you stellar defense and hit for average with maybe 10-15 HR's a year. That was his expectations. He's given you the defense with a bit of an issue when it comes to throwing errors but he's never reached that average hitter status.

So you are asking why he's been a disappointment? Because he's never reached being an average hitter. It's been 4 years now with no signs of improvement.

Does that work for you, sunshine?

On the vast majority of teams you could live with what Russell gives you. But the Cubs can just as easily move Baez to SS and put Ben Zobrist/Ian Happ/David Bote/Tommy La Stella at 2nd.

Must be why those scouting reports you're ignoring keep referencing his power and hit tool as his calling cards....

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-27-2018, 02:51 PM

"I project hitting for average to be Russell's second most dominant tool, behind only his raw power."

"Hitting: Russell has a quiet setup and advanced approach with a good idea of the strike zone. Russell has the ability to hit to all fields with power. Tremendous bat speed, great hands with a short, compact swing. Russell will chase, especially breaking balls out of the zone. The potential is there for Russell to hit .300 in the majors.

Power: Shows raw power in batting practice. Russell has the speed and gap power to produce doubles and triples. Has the potential to hit 20-30 home runs in a 600-at bat season. Projects to be a run producer in the majors."

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Must be why those scouting reports you're ignoring keep referencing his power and hit tool as his calling cards....

Not ignoring anything.

You can pull up all the scouting reports you want. Most all of them will limit him to gap power while suggesting he's going to hit 25 HRs a year (Ok?). Then if you keep looking you start reading about questions he had at the plate with discipline and struggling to hit offspeed pitches against superior competition which led to questions of whether or not he had sufficient pure hitting ability to translate at the MLB level.

Which is why the A's made the trade and "would do it again."

'Hamas' Jenkins · 08-27-2018, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

Not ignoring anything.

You can pull up all the scouting reports you want. Most all of them will limit him to gap power while suggesting he's going to hit 25 HRs a year (Ok?). Then if you keep looking you start reading about questions he had at the plate with discipline and struggling to hit offspeed pitches against superior competition which led to questions of whether or not he had sufficient pure hitting ability to translate at the MLB level.

Which is why the A's made the trade and "would do it again."

"Never hyped as a hitter."

Reports list his hit took and power as calling cards.

No bullshit here....

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

"Never hyped as a hitter."

Reports list his hit took and power as calling cards.

No bullshit here....

Keep holding on to batting practice scouting reports.

**BigRedChief** · 08-27-2018, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAChief

Really? Ever?

http://mlbtopprospects.com/2014/12/addison-russell-bio/

https://www.mlb.com/news/bernie-ples...top/c-58486746

https://chicagocubsonline.com/archiv...-cubs-farm.php

yeah JD, WTF? Russell was supposed to be Trout level, top 5 prospects in baseball. And now he’s a defensive only SS?

Man you move the goal posts more than any fan I can remember.

jd1020 · 08-27-2018, 04:08 PM

When the hell was Russell suppose to be Mike Trout?

**BigRedChief** · 08-27-2018, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

You are focused on this year for the Cardinals, Understandably so. We are not a real threat to your division dominance this year. Next year, that story isn't set yet.

One thing you have ignored with your posts is the value of our young players has jumped up significantly.
Gomber
Gant
Poncedeleon
Hudson
Hicks
Bader
O'Neill
Flaherty

Mikolas this off season will have trade value too

Have all increased their trade value, agree? Expendable trade value put together with our surplus OF and Kelly = A potential great player in 2018.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

How many of those players do you think the Cardinals are actually going to trade?

I don't think anyone is going to be looking to trade for Tyler O'neill. And if they are it wont be at the price you seem to think he is worth. He is fools gold.

Bader wont be going anywhere because he is your CFer.

So which pitchers are you trading to replace the majority of your lineup? Outside of Flaherty you are gonna have to package at least a couple of them just to get in the door in a conversation for a middle of the order bat.

I have said before his call up to the majors that Flaherty can win a CY Young someday. You don’t trade that upside.

None of those others are top shelf players. As was discussed earlier, we need to be looking for $’s and trading our quarters. In this case above, most were dimes and now are quarters, maybe. That was my point. We get a club that has one great piece but need help in a lot of areas, that’s who would be interested in our quarters for their $.

**BigRedChief** · 08-27-2018, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

When the hell was Russell suppose to be Mike Trout?

Trout level, a top 5 player and prospect. No one thought Trout would be Trout or they wouldn’t have picked him at 23.

Quit trying to move the goalposts. Russell has underperformed what “most” knowledgeable and just casual fans thought he would be.

01-02-2018, 05:51 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3029627 VARSITY	2018 STL Cardinals Thread Opening day lineup Fowler RF Pham CF Carpenter 3B Ozuna LF Martinez 1B Molina C Dejong SS Wong 2B Pitcher Edit: Matheny fired 07/14/2018 Opening Day Roster Spoiler! St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen. Outfielders: Dexter Fowler Tommy Pham Marcell Ozuna Infielders: Matt Carpenter Paul DeJong Kolten Wong Catchers: Yadier Molina Francisco Pena Utility: Jose Martinez Greg Garcia Yairo Munoz Jedd Gyrko Starters: Carlos Martinez Michael Wacha Luke Weaver Miles Mikolas Jack Flaherty Relievers: Dominic Leone Tyler Lyons Bud Norris Brett Cecil Sam Tuivailala Matt Bowman Jordan Hicks Mike Mayers On the DL: Adam Wainwright Luke Gregerson Last edited by BigRedChief; 07-17-2018 at 02:21 PM..
Posts: 79,097

08-27-2018, 02:36 PM	#3333
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7722645	A "gap power" hitter that was traded because the A's didn't believe it would translate and so far they were right. He's still only 24 but I dont think you'll ever hope for more than average from Russell.
Posts: 24,331

08-27-2018, 02:45 PM	#3336
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7722645	Russell was a guy that was suppose to get you stellar defense and hit for average with maybe 10-15 HR's a year. That was his expectations. He's given you the defense with a bit of an issue when it comes to throwing errors but he's never reached that average hitter status. So you are asking why he's been a disappointment? Because he's never reached being an average hitter. It's been 4 years now with no signs of improvement. Does that work for you, sunshine? On the vast majority of teams you could live with what Russell gives you. But the Cubs can just as easily move Baez to SS and put Ben Zobrist/Ian Happ/David Bote/Tommy La Stella at 2nd.
Posts: 24,331

08-27-2018, 02:51 PM	#3338
'Hamas' Jenkins Now you've pissed me off! Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $7989572	"I project hitting for average to be Russell's second most dominant tool, behind only his raw power." "Hitting: Russell has a quiet setup and advanced approach with a good idea of the strike zone. Russell has the ability to hit to all fields with power. Tremendous bat speed, great hands with a short, compact swing. Russell will chase, especially breaking balls out of the zone. The potential is there for Russell to hit .300 in the majors. Power: Shows raw power in batting practice. Russell has the speed and gap power to produce doubles and triples. Has the potential to hit 20-30 home runs in a 600-at bat season. Projects to be a run producer in the majors." __________________ "When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read 'all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics.' When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretense of loving liberty – to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocrisy.”--Abraham Lincoln
Posts: 74,832

08-27-2018, 04:08 PM	#3343
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7722645	When the hell was Russell suppose to be Mike Trout?
Posts: 24,331