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Old 03-19-2022, 07:50 AM  
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***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread***

2022 Opening Day Lineup
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2022 Opening Day roster
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For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.


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Old 10-26-2022, 11:21 AM   #1231
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A dumb hill to die on. Bruce Harper is one of the most overrated players in recent history. He has played 11 years and is worth 44.2 fWAR. So heís a 4 win player, which is a borderline all star but not remotely close to an elite player. And he had one monster 9.3 win season in 2015 which is an obv outlier.

Heís not durable at all and sucks in the field. He was worth 2.4 wins this year while the Cards allocated that Capitol to two stars who had HOF level seasons this year (Arenado 7.3, Gold 7.1)
Yes yes yes.

The guy who didn't know who Nolan Arenado was 5 years ago and was comparing Harper to Jorge Soler is definitely the guy we want to be getting baseball insight from.
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Old 10-26-2022, 11:56 AM   #1232
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Thank heavens that Albert is gone. GTFO!

Also saw Wainwright will be back next year
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Old 10-26-2022, 11:59 AM   #1233
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Yes yes yes.

The guy who didn't know who Nolan Arenado was 5 years ago and was comparing Harper to Jorge Soler is definitely the guy we want to be getting baseball insight from.
My question from that post was if PB shortened Goldy's name because it sounds Jewey.
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:17 PM   #1234
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Yes yes yes.

The guy who didn't know who Nolan Arenado was 5 years ago and was comparing Harper to Jorge Soler is definitely the guy we want to be getting baseball insight from.

It takes a special kind of stubborn to claim that a guy who has a averaged 4 wins/season (which is consistent all-star level performance) is not worth a contract.

Especially when he has 14.9 wins in 3 1/3 seasons for his new team, producing 4.5 wins a year even with a big injury absence in one of them (the first time in 5 years he has missed significant time to injury). Even at the conservative valuation of $6M/win, he has performed level with his average yearly salary.

And considering general inflation, thatís probably too low now.
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:21 PM   #1235
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
It takes a special kind of stubborn to claim that a guy who has a averaged 4 wins/season (which is consistent all-star level performance) is not worth a contract.

Especially when he has 14.9 wins in 3 1/3 seasons for his new team, producing 4.5 wins a year even with a big injury absence in one of them (the first time in 5 years he has missed significant time to injury). Even at the conservative valuation of $6M/win, he has performed level with his average yearly salary.

And considering general inflation, thatís probably too low now.

Excellent job arguing a point I never made. Thatís a special kinda stubborn.
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:24 PM   #1236
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
It takes a special kind of stubborn to claim that a guy who has a averaged 4 wins/season (which is consistent all-star level performance) is not worth a contract.

Especially when he has 14.9 wins in 3 1/3 seasons for his new team, producing 4.5 wins a year even with a big injury absence in one of them (the first time in 5 years he has missed significant time to injury). Even at the conservative valuation of $6M/win, he has performed level with his average yearly salary.

And considering general inflation, that’s probably too low now.
Did you SEE that ball he put out to LC field to win the pennant?

I watched that swing on a loop 50 times. The things he did there were so damn incredible. I mean there's the basic stuff like keeping his head in on that pitch away at 100 mph. But what amazed the hell out of me is how he still generated power and that it wasn't an accident.

Look at how he keeps his front foot square to prevent from spinning off it. Now for a normal human being, if you keep that front foot square it's going to make you struggle to get your hips turned and convert that lower body energy. You'll waste it because you can't get the hip turn that transfers it into your back.

Harper, in the blink of an eye, dropped his back knee to allow him to keep his front side sound and still rotate his hips. He was able to see that pitch - again, 100 mph on the black away - recognize it and immediatelly fundamentally alter his base to ensure that he could still take that ball the opposite way with the authority to drive out out of the park.

A mere mortal can hit that ball and get a double out of it to maybe tie the game (but it's probably an out given the defense shift they had on him). Harper, OTOH, did one of the most amazing things I've seen a hitter do and intentionally murdered that ball oppo.

The first time I saw it I thought he mis-hit it. Then I saw his head and realized 'nah, he was trying to go oppo'. Then I saw his legs and thought "nooooo....I didn't see that..."

After a dozen more viewings I finally accepted what he did there. I'm convinced I've never seen anything like it. The whole AB was pretty impressive but that swing in particular was remarkable.

But yeah - Cardinals have no need for him...
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:34 PM   #1237
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Old 10-26-2022, 12:37 PM   #1238
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Forget the HR he hit. What about the 2 strike changeup he spit on just before hitting it.

The Phillies got a former MVP for $25M AAV when guys in his circle are starting to push $35M+. He then won another MVP for the Phillies. And after he hit that HR, even the ****ing Phillies owner told him he thinks he underpaid him.
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Old 10-26-2022, 01:03 PM   #1239
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Excellent job arguing a point I never made. Thatís a special kinda stubborn.
Your points fail. You've been on a quest to claim his contract with the Phillies is bad since the day he signed it.

He hasn't been a bad value:

4.5 wins/year = $27M a year in value (conservative)/$36M a year in value (medium)/$45M a year in value (aggressive)

His durability hasn't been an issue in Philly, and this year was the first time in five years he has missed significant time, and that was after a pitch hit him on the hand and broke his thumb. That's a fluke injury, not related to his general wellness or reliability.

Yes, the Cardinals acquired Goldschmidt instead of Harper and are paying him basically the same yearly salary. But they also had to trade assets to do that (a package that has earned around 8 wins in value for the Diamondbacks, with a minor leaguer who looks like they are a potential solid value still awaiting MLB service time).

And Goldschmidt withered in the postseason while Harper was a key/big factor in his team advancing to the World Series.
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Old 10-26-2022, 01:09 PM   #1240
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Forget the HR he hit. What about the 2 strike changeup he spit on just before hitting it.

The Phillies got a former MVP for $25M AAV when guys in his circle are starting to push $35M+. He then won another MVP for the Phillies. And after he hit that HR, even the ****ing Phillies owner told him he thinks he underpaid him.
Or the 1-2 sinker that was exactly where Squarez wanted it that Harper fought off to stay alive.

Suarez will have nightmares about that AB for the rest of his life. There just wasn't a shitload he could do there. Maybe you argue that Suarez should've elevated that 1-2 fastball just a little bit more and perhaps Harper swings through it. But once Harper got into a 2-strike count, he was going to be really hard to retire away.

If there's a complaint there, it's pitch sequencing. Suarez was scared to death to come inside to him and Harper is clearly protecting at that point. Suarez had worked away the entire AB and still had a pitch to work with at 2-2.

He probably should've tried to back-door that sinker to see if he could get Harper to roll over it. You gave him too many pitches on the outer 3rd and let him get that oppo stroke dialed in. When he fouled off that 2-2 sinker, it was time to get in his kitchen. Especially after he laid off that change the next pitch.

At that point, you know you're looking to mitigate damage more than 'win' the AB. He see's seeing you well enough to just completely ignore your best pitch. So you're gonna play for a little but of luck or a single. Having just gone changeup away, flipping to sinker in might have gotten you that grounder to 2b you're looking for here.
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Old 10-26-2022, 01:18 PM   #1241
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Your points fail. You've been on a quest to claim his contract with the Phillies is bad since the day he signed it.

He hasn't been a bad value:

4.5 wins/year = $27M a year in value (conservative)/$36M a year in value (medium)/$45M a year in value (aggressive)

His durability hasn't been an issue in Philly, and this year was the first time in five years he has missed significant time, and that was after a pitch hit him on the hand and broke his thumb. That's a fluke injury, not related to his general wellness or reliability.

Yes, the Cardinals acquired Goldschmidt instead of Harper and are paying him basically the same yearly salary. But they also had to trade assets to do that (a package that has earned around 8 wins in value for the Diamondbacks, with a minor leaguer who looks like they are a potential solid value still awaiting MLB service time).

And Goldschmidt withered in the postseason while Harper was a key/big factor in his team advancing to the World Series.
You're talking to a guy who was saying that Hosmer was a safer bet than Harper was when Hosmer was headed to FA.
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Old 10-26-2022, 02:38 PM   #1242
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Your points fail. You've been on a quest to claim his contract with the Phillies is bad since the day he signed it.

He hasn't been a bad value:

4.5 wins/year = $27M a year in value (conservative)/$36M a year in value (medium)/$45M a year in value (aggressive)
Doubling-down on a point I didnít even mention. Stubborn.^

Quote:
His durability hasn't been an issue in Philly, and this year was the first time in five years he has missed significant time, and that was after a pitch hit him on the hand and broke his thumb. That's a fluke injury, not related to his general wellness or reliability.

Yes, the Cardinals acquired Goldschmidt instead of Harper and are paying him basically the same yearly salary.

The total contract values for Arenado + Gold are almost = to Bruce. Cards management clearly nailed this one which was my point.

Quote:
But they also had to trade assets to do that (a package that has earned around 8 wins in value for the Diamondbacks, with a minor leaguer who looks like they are a potential solid value still awaiting MLB service time).
Ok, so? Carson Kelly has 4 wins in 4 years. Heís essentially useless and wouldnít even play in STL anyway. WAR is a logarithmic concept as you know, so a 7 WAR season > fifteen 1 WAR seasons


Quote:
And Goldschmidt withered in the postseason while Harper was a key/big factor in his team advancing to the World Series.
Sample size. Gold career 910 OPS in playoffs, Harper 997. Bfd. And the Cards wouldnít have even made the playoffs had they signed Harper so itís moot.
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Old 10-26-2022, 02:40 PM   #1243
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Yes yes yes.

The guy who didn't know who Nolan Arenado was 5 years ago .
Thanks for the laugh.
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Old 10-26-2022, 08:53 PM   #1244
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3 picks and some shit defense.....Mahomes should have to walk home from Denver. That was a piss poor game on his part.
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Old 10-26-2022, 09:51 PM   #1245
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Consummate professional. Avatar of the org. We had one who couldíve been our Wainright in Danny Duffy. Same skill but wanted to dress up as a bear in the Locker, rapped, passed out drunk in a Burger King drive thru. Just shoot me.
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