Houston Astros get hammered for cheating

[siberian khatru]

BREAKING: Per sources, MLB’s penalties for #Astros include:

*One-year suspensions for GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch.

*Losses of 1st and 2nd round draft picks in both 2020 and ‘21.

*A fine of $5M.

Full story and more context with @EvanDrellich: https://t.co/djvKEYFiC7

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) January 13, 2020

No players were disciplined by Major League Baseball in the Astros' investigation. While Mets manager Carlos Beltran was part of it, he was a player at the time and thus was not suspended.

Discipline for Red Sox manager Alex Cora is coming. It is going to be harsh, per sources.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 13, 2020

Jim Crane just fired Jeff Luhnow and AJ Hinch.

— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 13, 2020

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by Jerm

All you need to know....



...not to mention, he immediately heads to clubhouse to change out of his jersey and then comes back out onto the field and gives a bullshit interview to Rosenthal about his actions.

I know I'm super LTTP on all this Astros stuff but I find the buzzer stuff the most intriguing, just had to comment.

**** them, **** Altuve, and **** Verlander.

I hope Altuve gets hit in every single game this season. Hell Springer too, whoever else.

Wasn’t Verlander bitching about juiced balls giving an unfair advantage to the batter recently too? That’s a lot of nerve.

[Pablo]

Harvey II needs to come in and finish the job.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by smithandrew051

Wasn’t Verlander bitching about juiced balls giving an unfair advantage to the batter recently too? That’s a lot of nerve.

He's been bitching about teams and players for years...hilarious to see his hypocrite ass on the other side now.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by njchiefs

Very eloquent. Now how about replying with some meaningful commentary. I am not refuting the fact that what the Astros did was “illegal”, but just pointing out the absurdity of the rules, ie: cheating is fine as long as it’s not done electronically. It’s all BS and baseball is a silly boys game.

Of course everyone expects an opposing team to try to hide signals. When a team is forced to send an entire ****ing SWAT team to figure out a way to send out an ordinary sign without fear of it being stolen, that's where it gets messed up. Nobody is talking about someone ON THE FIELD stealing signs. The issue is when you give a nerd with zero athletic ability the chance to steal a sign because the home team cheated, installed cameras, then designed an illegal system to relay that sign through technology.

Here's a simple thought. If this is just a silly boy's game, then how about hitters guess the pitch that's coming to them. Instead of being tipped off to it. In what ****ing world would a fan be excited about watching a game where every hitter knew exactly what pitch was going to be thrown to them.

[njchiefs]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Of course everyone expects an opposing team to try to hide signals. When a team is forced to send an entire ****ing SWAT team to figure out a way to send out an ordinary sign without fear of it being stolen, that's where it gets messed up. Nobody is talking about someone ON THE FIELD stealing signs. The issue is when you give a nerd with zero athletic ability the chance to steal a sign because the home team cheated, installed cameras, then designed an illegal system to relay that sign through technology.

Here's a simple thought. If this is just a silly boy's game, then how about hitters guess the pitch that's coming to them. Instead of being tipped off to it. In what ****ing world would a fan be excited about watching a game where every hitter knew exactly what pitch was going to be thrown to them.

I don’t understand why the “nerd with zero athletic ability” comment keeps popping up as if it’s relevant in any way. I’m sure 90% of every professional team’s (not just baseball) vital personnel is non athletic. And perhaps they should just forget signals and let the pitcher decide which pitch he is going to throw next. Bottom line is, with all the money involved in professional sports, the majority of individuals with a stake in the game will try to gain a competitive edge if they can get away with it. There is no morality nor ethics in sport anymore. “Saint it ain’t so Joe” no longer applies. So yes, the onus is upon the team’s counter espionage personnel to outsmart the cheaters.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by njchiefs

I don’t understand why the “nerd with zero athletic ability” comment keeps popping up as if it’s relevant in any way. I’m sure 90% of every professional team’s (not just baseball) vital personnel is non athletic. And perhaps they should just forget signals and let the pitcher decide which pitch he is going to throw next. Bottom line is, with all the money involved in professional sports, the majority of individuals with a stake in the game will try to gain a competitive edge if they can get away with it. There is no morality nor ethics in sport anymore. “Saint it ain’t so Joe” no longer applies. So yes, the onus is upon the team’s counter espionage personnel to outsmart the cheaters.

Did you not read about what major steps the nationals went through to dodge cheating? They said they came up with something like 5 sets of signs. Can you imagine the ridiculous amount of work to expect pitchers and catchers to do this and scramble signs like this for 162 games?

Or let's keep it simple... You don't need all this counter espionage shit if teams stopped cheating. Seems like a much simpler solution than expecting teams to go through all this stressful nonsense.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by njchiefs

I don’t understand why the “nerd with zero athletic ability” comment keeps popping up as if it’s relevant in any way. I’m sure 90% of every professional team’s (not just baseball) vital personnel is non athletic. And perhaps they should just forget signals and let the pitcher decide which pitch he is going to throw next. Bottom line is, with all the money involved in professional sports, the majority of individuals with a stake in the game will try to gain a competitive edge if they can get away with it. There is no morality nor ethics in sport anymore. “Saint it ain’t so Joe” no longer applies. So yes, the onus is upon the team’s counter espionage personnel to outsmart the cheaters.

It’s clear you don’t understand the game of baseball, or your argument would make a lot more sense.


You can’t just let pitchers throw whatever they want, without the catcher knowing. Have you seen what happens when they get signs mixed up? When a catcher expects a curve but gets a fastball? Catcher sets up inside for a fastball but the pitch become a slider down and away? If you knew what happens when those 2 aren’t on the same page you wouldn’t even suggest something so ignorant.


What you are arguing between competitive edge and cheating, is fine. Though you are comparing pitch tipping to setting up cameras, which are two completely different things. Which shows you really don’t understand the difference and are arguing out of ignorance.


Here is the difference again, a pitcher holds his glove up above his letters every time he throws a fastball. When he throws an off speed pitch, he holds his glove lower, this is pitch tipping. Not cheating, this is a competitive advantage that is a natural part of the game.



A pitcher twists the ball in his glove on a breaking ball, and it moved his glove. He doesn’t do this on fastball pitches, batters notice this. Competitive edge not cheating.


A defensive lineman notices the left tackle will set his outside foot further back on passing plays. That same tackle will keep his feet more even on run plays, competitive edge and not cheating.



Setting up cameras in the outfield pointed at the catcher, sending that signal to the home dugout. So that players can watch, steal signals, then beat garbage cans on off speed pitches. Cheating.



Watching coaches talk to players and reading lips, competitive edge. Using microphones to pick up what they are saying cheating. It’s really not that blurry of a line or even hard to distinguish. It’s why baseball doesn’t have rules against pitch tipping or sign stealing, but they do have rules against using electronic equipment. Being used to sign steal or figure out pitch tipping.

[jerryaldini]

Originally Posted by tk13

There was one of the games in Houston where Strasburg, who was their best pitcher in the playoffs... was getting smashed in the first inning. He came out and dominated the rest of the game. After the game he just said he was tipping his pitches, but didn't elaborate. I always wondered now if there was something more to it than just straight up tipping his pitches.

Oh man I remember that. It was like he flipped a switch. Would be interesting to look at the signs in those games. I feel bad for Houston sports fans. Other than the Rockets with Hakeem they've never had a true champion. The Astros will be the most reviled team in modern sports history.

[GloryDayz]

Perhaps to combat this they could go to radio comma (in the MLB) for pitchers, catchers, and the dugout (where the dugout can call the suggested pitch and the pitcher can wave it off).

A huge change to the game and the rules, but it would work.

[njchiefs]

Originally Posted by mac459

It’s clear you don’t understand the game of baseball, or your argument would make a lot more sense.


You can’t just let pitchers throw whatever they want, without the catcher knowing. Have you seen what happens when they get signs mixed up? When a catcher expects a curve but gets a fastball? Catcher sets up inside for a fastball but the pitch become a slider down and away? If you knew what happens when those 2 aren’t on the same page you wouldn’t even suggest something so ignorant.


What you are arguing between competitive edge and cheating, is fine. Though you are comparing pitch tipping to setting up cameras, which are two completely different things. Which shows you really don’t understand the difference and are arguing out of ignorance.


Here is the difference again, a pitcher holds his glove up above his letters every time he throws a fastball. When he throws an off speed pitch, he holds his glove lower, this is pitch tipping. Not cheating, this is a competitive advantage that is a natural part of the game.



A pitcher twists the ball in his glove on a breaking ball, and it moved his glove. He doesn’t do this on fastball pitches, batters notice this. Competitive edge not cheating.


A defensive lineman notices the left tackle will set his outside foot further back on passing plays. That same tackle will keep his feet more even on run plays, competitive edge and not cheating.



Setting up cameras in the outfield pointed at the catcher, sending that signal to the home dugout. So that players can watch, steal signals, then beat garbage cans on off speed pitches. Cheating.



Watching coaches talk to players and reading lips, competitive edge. Using microphones to pick up what they are saying cheating. It’s really not that blurry of a line or even hard to distinguish. It’s why baseball doesn’t have rules against pitch tipping or sign stealing, but they do have rules against using electronic equipment. Being used to sign steal or figure out pitch tipping.

My comment regarding pitchers deciding which pitch to throw was facetious. Though I don’t deny I’m no baseball genius. Just not my favorite game. And this is a football forum. So how about a high powered optics with no electronics. Or a base runner with telescopic contact lenses? Competitive edge or cheating? A batter inadvertently receives a tip about the next pitch that he knows was obtained “electronically”. Does he ignore the information and strike out on purpose, because he is a good human being? I guess I’m saying when it comes to modern sports, a slight competitive edge can mean millions of dollars. Just don’t get caught. And we should stop being so sanctimonious about it.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

Perhaps to combat this they could go to radio comma (in the MLB) for pitchers, catchers, and the dugout (where the dugout can call the suggested pitch and the pitcher can wave it off).

A huge change to the game and the rules, but it would work.

Yup. At this point you have to. Of course you have to worry about patriots nonsense where stadiums might still try to bug their way into hearing the chatter. But with wearables and cameras it might just be too hard to prevent cheating otherwise.

[seamonster]

Originally Posted by mac459

It’s clear you don’t understand the game of baseball, or your argument would make a lot more sense.


You can’t just let pitchers throw whatever they want, without the catcher knowing. Have you seen what happens when they get signs mixed up? When a catcher expects a curve but gets a fastball? Catcher sets up inside for a fastball but the pitch become a slider down and away? If you knew what happens when those 2 aren’t on the same page you wouldn’t even suggest something so ignorant.


What you are arguing between competitive edge and cheating, is fine. Though you are comparing pitch tipping to setting up cameras, which are two completely different things. Which shows you really don’t understand the difference and are arguing out of ignorance.


Here is the difference again, a pitcher holds his glove up above his letters every time he throws a fastball. When he throws an off speed pitch, he holds his glove lower, this is pitch tipping. Not cheating, this is a competitive advantage that is a natural part of the game.



A pitcher twists the ball in his glove on a breaking ball, and it moved his glove. He doesn’t do this on fastball pitches, batters notice this. Competitive edge not cheating.


A defensive lineman notices the left tackle will set his outside foot further back on passing plays. That same tackle will keep his feet more even on run plays, competitive edge and not cheating.



Setting up cameras in the outfield pointed at the catcher, sending that signal to the home dugout. So that players can watch, steal signals, then beat garbage cans on off speed pitches. Cheating.



Watching coaches talk to players and reading lips, competitive edge. Using microphones to pick up what they are saying cheating. It’s really not that blurry of a line or even hard to distinguish. It’s why baseball doesn’t have rules against pitch tipping or sign stealing, but they do have rules against using electronic equipment. Being used to sign steal or figure out pitch tipping.

Why can't the pitcher and catcher "use technology"? Give them some ****ing microphones or something and let them pass signals back and forth to each other instead of regulating civil-war era hand jiving. Seems like an obvious solution.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by njchiefs

My comment regarding pitchers deciding which pitch to throw was facetious. Though I don’t deny I’m no baseball genius. Just not my favorite game. And this is a football forum. So how about a high powered optics with no electronics. Or a base runner with telescopic contact lenses? Competitive edge or cheating? A batter inadvertently receives a tip about the next pitch that he knows was obtained “electronically”. Does he ignore the information and strike out on purpose, because he is a good human being? I guess I’m saying when it comes to modern sports, a slight competitive edge can mean millions of dollars. Just don’t get caught. And we should stop being so sanctimonious about it.

Wtf?

[Demonpenz]

the pitchers should wear earflaps around the temples anyway put some microphones in there and call it a day

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by njchiefs

My comment regarding pitchers deciding which pitch to throw was facetious. Though I don’t deny I’m no baseball genius. Just not my favorite game. And this is a football forum. So how about a high powered optics with no electronics. Or a base runner with telescopic contact lenses? Competitive edge or cheating? A batter inadvertently receives a tip about the next pitch that he knows was obtained “electronically”. Does he ignore the information and strike out on purpose, because he is a good human being? I guess I’m saying when it comes to modern sports, a slight competitive edge can mean millions of dollars. Just don’t get caught. And we should stop being so sanctimonious about it.

Fans don't want to see cheating. They want to see real competition. Of course there are still ways to work around the edges. But it's not about moral superiority. Its the idea that real competitors should want to win by being better, not by being better cheaters. Of course there's a lot of gray area in the comment. But using technology in ways that are blatantly illegal is not even close to a gray area. If gaining an illegal competitive advantage is worth a few million then the consequences of getting caught should be very harsh to disincentive teams from doing it.