Then & Now...Week 6 vs. AFCCG

[203Pat]

I think the only real differences between us now and in October are, Gordon is gone, our running game has evolved somewhat, and our defense is playing a little more consistently.

Gordon being gone is a big loss. He finally was fully integrated into the offense right before he went off the reservation again. He wasn’t what he was in 2013 but he was our only deep threat and definitely helped open things up underneath for Edelman and the backs in space.

The running game has been better mainly due to the O-line. There was a goal line TD against the Chargers where everyone one of their D-lineman were pushed into the end zone. If we can win in the trenches I think it will go along way to neutralizing the pass rush that the Chiefs have. As far as that pass rush goes, I know Chris Jones is an all world pass rusher on the interior but I’ve heard he’s a liability against the run? What are everyone’s thoughts on that?

As for the defense we still don’t have a great pass rush but we have been getting a little more pressure as of late. Some well timed blitzes and a good secondary have definitely helped us over the last month or so. All that goes out the window if Hill is parting our double teams like the Red Sea. I’m assuming Bill will do whatever he can to take away Hill or Kelce and hoot the other one doesn’t kill us but I really have no idea how. My guess would be JC Jackson on Hill with safety help over the top and chipping Kelce on every play with Chung in coverage. Basically it’s pick your poison and I just hope not to see any peace signs.

[Angry fan]

Originally Posted by 203Pat

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The running game has been better mainly due to the O-line. There was a goal line TD against the Chargers where everyone one of their D-lineman were pushed into the end zone. If we can win in the trenches I think it will go along way to neutralizing the pass rush that the Chiefs have. As far as that pass rush goes, I know Chris Jones is an all world pass rusher on the interior but I’ve heard he’s a liability against the run? What are everyone’s thoughts on that?

From watching your last game it was your fullback James Develin and the blocking of your tight ends Gronkowski and Dwayne Allen. Man if only Travis Kelce could block, what a player he could be! Right now Kelce is just a move tight end. I wonder if he'll ever try to be competent blocker.

That Develin guy, he might be the best blocking fullback in the business. Not sure how Sherman made the all-pro over him, Sherman barely played!

[203Pat]

Originally Posted by Angry fan

From watching your last game it was your fullback James Develin and the blocking of your tight ends Gronkowski and Dwayne Allen. Man if only Travis Kelce could block, what a player he could be! Right now Kelce is just a move tight end. I wonder if he'll ever try to be competent blocker.

That Develin guy, he might be the best blocking fullback in the business. Not sure how Sherman made the all-pro over him, Sherman barely played!

Gronk has definitely fallen off as an elite TE receiving-wise but as a blocker he’s still one of the best there is. He was walling off the DE’s on Sunday and was basically an extension of the O-line. As for Develin he definitely got robbed for the pro bowl. Especially since last year he was a pro bowler and he has had a better year this year even if you don’t count the few TD’s he’s scored. He’s been a battering ram as a lead blocker and big a big part of Sony coming on the second half of the year.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by 203Pat

I think the only real differences between us now and in October are, Gordon is gone, our running game has evolved somewhat, and our defense is playing a little more consistently.

Gordon being gone is a big loss. He finally was fully integrated into the offense right before he went off the reservation again. He wasn’t what he was in 2013 but he was our only deep threat and definitely helped open things up underneath for Edelman and the backs in space.

The running game has been better mainly due to the O-line. There was a goal line TD against the Chargers where everyone one of their D-lineman were pushed into the end zone. If we can win in the trenches I think it will go along way to neutralizing the pass rush that the Chiefs have. As far as that pass rush goes, I know Chris Jones is an all world pass rusher on the interior but I’ve heard he’s a liability against the run? What are everyone’s thoughts on that?

As for the defense we still don’t have a great pass rush but we have been getting a little more pressure as of late. Some well timed blitzes and a good secondary have definitely helped us over the last month or so. All that goes out the window if Hill is parting our double teams like the Red Sea. I’m assuming Bill will do whatever he can to take away Hill or Kelce and hoot the other one doesn’t kill us but I really have no idea how. My guess would be JC Jackson on Hill with safety help over the top and chipping Kelce on every play with Chung in coverage. Basically it’s pick your poison and I just hope not to see any peace signs.

Here's the thing about the NE running game. They were AWESOME agains the Chiefs back in Week 6. It just wasn't enough to keep Mahomes off the field or put the Chiefs away, at Foxboro even.

Chris Jones is a liability against the run, you heard right. It's because he's shooting up the field on every play. And while that in theory sounds good, it cuts both ways. It completely cancels out the whole idea that you can slow down the pass rush by running the ball. Our defense, especially Jones and a little bit Ford, don't play the run so much as they just shoot up field. Running the ball isn't going to the change that, so it's not like you can pound the rock and get them to stop and think about it. They basically play every down like it's a pass, which gets them gashed in the run game but creates havoc on pass plays. Does that make sense?

[203Pat]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Here's the thing about the NE running game. They were AWESOME agains the Chiefs back in Week 6. It just wasn't enough to keep Mahomes off the field or put the Chiefs away, at Foxboro even.

Chris Jones is a liability against the run, you heard right. It's because he's shooting up the field on every play. And while that in theory sounds good, it cuts both ways. It completely cancels out the whole idea that you can slow down the pass rush by running the ball. Our defense, especially Jones and a little bit Ford, don't play the run so much as they just shoot up field. Running the ball isn't going to the change that, so it's not like you can pound the rock and get them to stop and think about it. They basically play every down like it's a pass, which gets them gashed in the run game but creates havoc on pass plays. Does that make sense?

We will need to limit the quick TD/big plays along with the running game to win. In October we ran well but in the second half gave up a lot of chunk plays. In the end of the day keeping Mahomes off the field is how we win.

If Jones and Ford are just charging up the field every down I would assume we will mix in some draw plays with James White and Burkhead as well as plenty of screen passes (hopefully not Josh’s double fake screen). If the pass rush, especially in the interior of the O-line, is in Brady’s face all day that’s when things fall apart. How is Houston by the way? He looked like his old self against Indy.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by 203Pat

We will need to limit the quick TD/big plays along with the running game to win. In October we ran well but in the second half gave up a lot of chunk plays. In the end of the day keeping Mahomes off the field is how we win.

If Jones and Ford are just charging up the field every down I would assume we will mix in some draw plays with James White and Burkhead as well as plenty of screen passes (hopefully not Josh’s double fake screen). If the pass rush, especially in the interior of the O-line, is in Brady’s face all day that’s when things fall apart. How is Houston by the way? He looked like his old self against Indy.

Good luck limiting the big plays.

Seriously, it seems like the Chiefs have figured out how to generate big plays when the other big plays are taken away. Add in the fact that Mahomes always has his eyes downfield. The dude throws sideways, across his body, and whatever else he needs to do. When plays break down, other QBs scramble for 4. Mahomes hits somebody for 14.

I would agree, the Pats will likely run some draws and I expect them to be successful.

Houston seems to be 100%. He's been a big force down the stretch. 5 of his 9 sacks happened in December. His last game without a sack was Dec 2 against the Raiders. He had 2 sacks last week too.

Given the way you framed this, let me just say this:

I think that's the difference in the game. In week 6, the Patriots ran the ball well. I see that happening again. In week 6, Mahomes made big plays, especially in the 2nd half. I see that happening again.

However, in week 6, there was no interior penetration and Brady complemented the running game with serious surgical precision. The game winning play was the 39 yard pass to Gronk. THAT is what I don't expect to see again. I think the Chiefs come at Brady like rabid dogs and I think they do enough to slow down Brady, leading to a Chiefs win.

[203Pat]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Good luck limiting the big plays.

Seriously, it seems like the Chiefs have figured out how to generate big plays when the other big plays are taken away. Add in the fact that Mahomes always has his eyes downfield. The dude throws sideways, across his body, and whatever else he needs to do. When plays break down, other QBs scramble for 4. Mahomes hits somebody for 14.

I would agree, the Pats will likely run some draws and I expect them to be successful.

Houston seems to be 100%. He's been a big force down the stretch. 5 of his 9 sacks happened in December. His last game without a sack was Dec 2 against the Raiders. He had 2 sacks last week too.

Given the way you framed this, let me just say this:

I think that's the difference in the game. In week 6, the Patriots ran the ball well. I see that happening again. In week 6, Mahomes made big plays, especially in the 2nd half. I see that happening again.

However, in week 6, there was no interior penetration and Brady complemented the running game with serious surgical precision. The game winning play was the 39 yard pass to Gronk. THAT is what I don't expect to see again. I think the Chiefs come at Brady like rabid dogs and I think they do enough to slow down Brady, leading to a Chiefs win.

I definitely agree that getting to Brady is the way to beat us. On our side we need to keep Mahomes in the pocket. He has an Aaron Rodgers like ability to extend the play and make a perfect pass on the run. Him extending the play that extra second or two frees up Hill to sprint across the field and turn on the jets. I’m assuming we will have Hightower and Van Noy setting the edges since Clayborn comes from the Chris Jones school of pass rushing where he heads upfield hard. The only difference is he lets the tackle walk him back into the stands and is a complete liability against any mobile QB. Hopefully Trey Flowers can be disruptive as he’s been on a tear the second half of this contract year.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by 203Pat

I definitely agree that getting to Brady is the way to beat us. On our side we need to keep Mahomes in the pocket. He has an Aaron Rodgers like ability to extend the play and make a perfect pass on the run. Him extending the play that extra second or two frees up Hill to sprint across the field and turn on the jets. I’m assuming we will have Hightower and Van Noy setting the edges since Clayborn comes from the Chris Jones school of pass rushing where he heads upfield hard. The only difference is he lets the tackle walk him back into the stands and is a complete liability against any mobile QB. Hopefully Trey Flowers can be disruptive as he’s been on a tear the second half of this contract year.

What's interesting is that in the past, it wasn't really pressure that got to Brady with KC. It was that we basically dared him to sit in the pocket forever. We choked off a lot of his short game. Will be harder to do with tighter PI rules and now that NE has a better run game. But there's something to be said for how our D has in the past frustrated Brady not by pressure, but by coverage. I'd say that was true not just for us, but many Rex Ryan defenses.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

What's interesting is that in the past, it wasn't really pressure that got to Brady with KC. It was that we basically dared him to sit in the pocket forever. We choked off a lot of his short game. Will be harder to do with tighter PI rules and now that NE has a better run game. But there's something to be said for how our D has in the past frustrated Brady not by pressure, but by coverage.

The thing is, that was predicated on 3 and 4-man fronts. Basically ceding the rush for coverage.

This unit can get pressure from 4-man fronts now.

[203Pat]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

What's interesting is that in the past, it wasn't really pressure that got to Brady with KC. It was that we basically dared him to sit in the pocket forever. We choked off a lot of his short game. Will be harder to do with tighter PI rules and now that NE has a better run game. But there's something to be said for how our D has in the past frustrated Brady not by pressure, but by coverage. I'd say that was true not just for us, but many Rex Ryan defenses.

True the pass rush killed us that game. Nate Solder was a turnstile and Hali and Houston were just teeing off on Brady. About as bad a loss as I have ever seen in the BB/Brady era. At least they used it as fuel to another super bowl run.