Underappreciated Kuharich deserved better from Chiefs

[T-post Tom]

Caution, this may piss you off...

Underappreciated Kuharich deserved better from Chiefs
Jan. 13, 2009
By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

Memo to Scott Pioli: Keep Bill Kuharich.

Kuharich is Kansas City's vice president of player personnel, and to say he just got a raw deal is an understatement. Kuharich deserved to be part of the Chiefs' hunt for a general manager, but he wasn't ... and he wasn't because the Chiefs confined their search to applicants outside the club.

So they landed the Patriots' Pioli, and hooray for them.

Now my question is: Where does that leave Kuharich? I suspect only Pioli knows.

If he does what is best for him and his new employer keeps him, he trusts him and he relies on him. Kuharich not only is good at his job; he is so good he deserved to be a candidate for the position Pioli just filled.

But he wasn't, and I'm still not sure why.

Maybe the Chiefs considered him too old. He's 55. Maybe they wanted someone more telegenic. Kuharich is more at home in a sweater and khakis. Or maybe they just wanted a perspective from someone outside the organization, someone more removed from former president Carl Peterson.

"He was collateral damage," one NFC general manager said. "The Chiefs didn't want to go anywhere near someone close to Carl. And that's unfortunate because Kuharich is outstanding."

Well, whatever the reason it was apparent Kuharich didn't pass the physical and that owner Clark Hunt would be sold on someone outside the 816 area code. And that's OK if Hunt also understood that by doing that he eliminated one of his most qualified candidates.

"I want somebody who's a shrewd evaluator of football talent," Hunt said last month. "(His) job will be to think 24/7 about the football team. That's the most important quality."

Pardon me, but I think he just described Kuharich.

Look, I don't know if he could have outpolled Pioli. I don't know that anyone could. But I do know he deserved a chance to make his case because, like Pioli, he knew how to build a football team. He did it when he was general manager with the Saints, and he has done in his nine years with the Chiefs.

Let's start with New Orleans. I know what you're going to tell me: The Saints didn't rebound from their 1990s funk until Kuharich left, and you're right. But this just in: They got good with Kuharich's players.

The foundation of the team that went to the 2000 playoffs was laid by Kuharich, and don't tell me how foolish it was for the Saints to trade away an entire draft class for Ricky Williams.

First, that was an organizational decision, with the owner signing off on it. Second, of the draft picks they sacrificed, only one -- tackle Chris Samuels -- amounted to anything. Third, Williams became a marquee player for the Saints, rushing for 179 yards in a game as a rookie and 1,000 or more yards in two of his three seasons there.

So, yeah, that move worked out. Like other drafts in New Orleans worked out, with four first-rounders under Kuharich going on to Pro Bowls.

When he left after the 1999 season, the Saints were stocked with talent -- much as Tampa Bay was when Tony Dungy departed following the 2002 season. The Saints went from dead last (3-13) in their division in 1999 to first (10-6) a year later, a remarkable achievement that earned Kuharich's successor, Randy Mueller, the league's Executive of the Year.

But the Saints won with many of the players Kuharich chose, which means he was as much Executive of the Year as Mueller.

And let's not forget, it was Kuharich who brought free agent Jake Delhomme to the Saints in 1997. I once remember him telling me he thought the guy was good enough to start for the club. Only he never really had a chance. So he shuffled off to Carolina after Kuharich left ... and took the Panthers to the Super Bowl.

Score another for Kuharich.

Now fast forward to Kansas City. It was Kuharich who ran the pro personnel department that acquired starters like running back Priest Holmes, quarterback Trent Green and wide receiver Eddie Kennison and that swung the deal for tackle Willie Roaf.

It was Kuharich who ran the past three drafts that delivered a raft of starters, including Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, Bernard Pollard, Jarrad Page, Glenn Dorsey, Brandon Flowers and Branden Albert. And it was Kuharich who oversaw a 2008 draft that was universally acclaimed as one of the best anywhere.

Four draft picks became starters, and all but one of the 11 choices played.

Then there was quarterback Tyler Thigpen, whom Kuharich recommended after watching him in a preseason game with Minnesota. The Chiefs claimed him after he was waived, and he started 11 games this season.

So the Chiefs went 2-14. Big deal. This is a tear-down long overdue. They served youth, with so many young players gaining experience that the foundation Kansas City needs to rebuild is firmly established.

Too bad the guy who made it happen isn't.

I don't know what happens to Kuharich now, and I bet he doesn't know, either. Essentially, management has just told him he's gone as far as he can in the organization, and that if he wants a promotion he can start by reaching for the yellow pages.

That's a mistake.

He has the Chiefs on the road to recovery; it just might be time to find the next patient to cure. Maybe he never becomes a general manager anywhere again, but he should at least go where he's appreciated -- and I can't believe that can't be Kansas City.

"What I've always liked about him," one league source said [Rufas Dawes?], "is that he knows what a football player looks like. He doesn't need a stopwatch or a list of measureables. He can just look at a guy and tell."

I remember when Kuharich once told me about an offensive lineman he admired and how he was sure he would be a perfect fit for New Orleans. Yeah, I said, I had heard of Willie Roaf, but I wasn't sure he was a can't-miss prospect. Kuharich was.

Bill Kuharich knew what he was doing then, just as he knows what he's doing now. He deserves a chance to stay with the Chiefs. So give it to him, Scott Pioli.

[Dave Lane]

Originally Posted by Claythan

#1 reason not to hire Billy K:

He would have kept Herm.

Thats reason 1 through 10,000

[cdcox]

Originally Posted by Nero's Neptune

and they gave up pics for Ricky Williams. What that other team did with those pics is just so completely irrelavent to the point...I'm lost.

Just imagine how disappointed you'd feel if you were one of the electrons that ended up transmitting this piece of crap.

[DaneMcCloud]

This is a ****ing stupid article.

The Chiefs drafts sucked until 2008 under Kuharich. Tamba Hali? Are you ****ing kidding me?

Between Hali's selection and the Chiefs next selection, Santonio Holmes, DeAngelo Williams, Nick Mangold, Joseph Addai, Mathias Kiawanuka, Sinorice Moss, Marcus McNeil and ****ing DeMeco Ryans were all chosen.

So in essence, Billy "K" pass on Pro-Bowl and near Pro Bowl level players and chose Tamba Hali.

That in itself is grounds for firing.

[booger]

Wow. From the timing of this you got to wonder If BK got the Saunders syndrome..........When Goother got the HC gig and Al told carl to f off and went to become WR coach under DV in STL.

BK came in the '00 season and Bradway was still here and Lynn Stiles had just rejoined after tagging along with DV for 3 years. Once DV became the coach he went for his players he had coached or Grob's players. For the most part it was the players that the coaching staff wanted first then the personell dept. In season, when there was time to fill the practice squad and replace spots on the roster because of injurie, etc it was always bring a player back that had went through that training camp. DV favored knowing the playbooks, system, and familiarity. With the exception of DV's last year and Goother's FA list.

I remember about that time PFT had a rumor about Carl hoping/wanting BK out the door to get another GM gig. He felt threatened that he was a better football man. Ever since then his name comes up for many of the GM openings each offseason. I'm sure he's putting his own name out there someway or another as well. Also like Saunders, he never actually gets these jobs.

They did the right thing letting him run the draft once Herm arrived. The drafts are not great but better the first 2 years and much better this past year. But the other part of it, VP of Player Personell, also includes FA. Blame it on many but he is a part of that too. I see it as more of a lack of being on the same page from GM down to the coaches, but that doesn't make it better in the eyes of Owners that seek GM's.

From a qualified standpoint yeah, he did deserve a look. From Clark's side he did what he had to do in the "fresh set of eye's" being a must. So the colateral damage part makes plenty of sense on why he wasn't given a look. Goonther went 16 and 16 his first and only years as HC. Does he deserve a second chance to run a team? Hell, Gailey had the same 2 years and same if not exact record and he didn't get a chance. There's only so many out there that will hire Norv Turner and Herm and give them more chances.

But what is really interesting is WHY? Not just why now but why. He either desperatley has his name thrown out there for a shot with the browns, wants out to pursue a lateral move, just plain wants out, or didn't feed the info to Clark Judge himself. Hell, he may be flat out pissed about the article. It could have been Carl that fed it as an FU to all that are thrilled ( fans, Clark, media attention the Pioli hire has made) .

I have read on here that Judge used to write for kcchiefs.com. So it might be him being pissy about the hire from the standpoint that it's a mega change in access from his pal Carl. Somewhere on this BB is an article from this past draft of Judge that did a play by play of each pick w/ Kuharich. It sure looked like a way of getting his name out there to either take over for Carl or get another GM job.

If BK is just being a crybaby I'd say this is his way of saying he wants out now. Normally you don't see a change in the personell side very quickly unlike coaching staff changes this time of year. Only the GM's. Teams don't want those moves to take place until after the draft because all the prep work is done.

I think him staying would be a plus and strengthen the team. But if his attitude isn't in it he could be one of the first ones out the door.

One a side note seeing Bob Moore ( the smaller gretz but still a chubby looking little monster type dude ) was suprising. Being carls second anus and Rufus Dawes probably puts his arse out the door very fast too.

[Hammock Parties]

I'm sure Pioli has his own PR department in mind.

[booger]

yep, i bet so too

[Hammock Parties]

BTW, Bob Moore's gut is pretty huge. Don't sell him short.

[booger]

there's a training camp pick out there with a big straw chiefs hat on the net somewhere.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by booger

there's a training camp pick out there with a big straw chiefs hat on the net somewhere.

I have a picture. I don't feel it would be professional to show it.

[booger]

Originally Posted by Claythan

I have a picture. I don't feel it would be professional to show it.

that would be a bit mean to show it i agree.



Can't you find better whackoff material though?

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by T-post Tom

Caution, this may piss you off...

Underappreciated Kuharich deserved better from Chiefs
Jan. 13, 2009
By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

Memo to Scott Pioli: Keep Bill Kuharich.

Kuharich is Kansas City's vice president of player personnel, and to say he just got a raw deal is an understatement. Kuharich deserved to be part of the Chiefs' hunt for a general manager, but he wasn't ... and he wasn't because the Chiefs confined their search to applicants outside the club.

So they landed the Patriots' Pioli, and hooray for them.

Now my question is: Where does that leave Kuharich? I suspect only Pioli knows.

If he does what is best for him and his new employer keeps him, he trusts him and he relies on him. Kuharich not only is good at his job; he is so good he deserved to be a candidate for the position Pioli just filled.

But he wasn't, and I'm still not sure why.

Maybe the Chiefs considered him too old. He's 55. Maybe they wanted someone more telegenic. Kuharich is more at home in a sweater and khakis. Or maybe they just wanted a perspective from someone outside the organization, someone more removed from former president Carl Peterson.

"He was collateral damage," one NFC general manager said. "The Chiefs didn't want to go anywhere near someone close to Carl. And that's unfortunate because Kuharich is outstanding."

Well, whatever the reason it was apparent Kuharich didn't pass the physical and that owner Clark Hunt would be sold on someone outside the 816 area code. And that's OK if Hunt also understood that by doing that he eliminated one of his most qualified candidates.

"I want somebody who's a shrewd evaluator of football talent," Hunt said last month. "(His) job will be to think 24/7 about the football team. That's the most important quality."

Pardon me, but I think he just described Kuharich.

Look, I don't know if he could have outpolled Pioli. I don't know that anyone could. But I do know he deserved a chance to make his case because, like Pioli, he knew how to build a football team. He did it when he was general manager with the Saints, and he has done in his nine years with the Chiefs.

Let's start with New Orleans. I know what you're going to tell me: The Saints didn't rebound from their 1990s funk until Kuharich left, and you're right. But this just in: They got good with Kuharich's players.

The foundation of the team that went to the 2000 playoffs was laid by Kuharich, and don't tell me how foolish it was for the Saints to trade away an entire draft class for Ricky Williams.

First, that was an organizational decision, with the owner signing off on it. Second, of the draft picks they sacrificed, only one -- tackle Chris Samuels -- amounted to anything. Third, Williams became a marquee player for the Saints, rushing for 179 yards in a game as a rookie and 1,000 or more yards in two of his three seasons there.

So, yeah, that move worked out. Like other drafts in New Orleans worked out, with four first-rounders under Kuharich going on to Pro Bowls.

When he left after the 1999 season, the Saints were stocked with talent -- much as Tampa Bay was when Tony Dungy departed following the 2002 season. The Saints went from dead last (3-13) in their division in 1999 to first (10-6) a year later, a remarkable achievement that earned Kuharich's successor, Randy Mueller, the league's Executive of the Year.

But the Saints won with many of the players Kuharich chose, which means he was as much Executive of the Year as Mueller.

And let's not forget, it was Kuharich who brought free agent Jake Delhomme to the Saints in 1997. I once remember him telling me he thought the guy was good enough to start for the club. Only he never really had a chance. So he shuffled off to Carolina after Kuharich left ... and took the Panthers to the Super Bowl.

Score another for Kuharich.

Now fast forward to Kansas City. It was Kuharich who ran the pro personnel department that acquired starters like running back Priest Holmes, quarterback Trent Green and wide receiver Eddie Kennison and that swung the deal for tackle Willie Roaf.

It was Kuharich who ran the past three drafts that delivered a raft of starters, including Tamba Hali, Dwayne Bowe, Bernard Pollard, Jarrad Page, Glenn Dorsey, Brandon Flowers and Branden Albert. And it was Kuharich who oversaw a 2008 draft that was universally acclaimed as one of the best anywhere.

Four draft picks became starters, and all but one of the 11 choices played.

Then there was quarterback Tyler Thigpen, whom Kuharich recommended after watching him in a preseason game with Minnesota. The Chiefs claimed him after he was waived, and he started 11 games this season.

So the Chiefs went 2-14. Big deal. This is a tear-down long overdue. They served youth, with so many young players gaining experience that the foundation Kansas City needs to rebuild is firmly established.

Too bad the guy who made it happen isn't.

I don't know what happens to Kuharich now, and I bet he doesn't know, either. Essentially, management has just told him he's gone as far as he can in the organization, and that if he wants a promotion he can start by reaching for the yellow pages.

That's a mistake.

He has the Chiefs on the road to recovery; it just might be time to find the next patient to cure. Maybe he never becomes a general manager anywhere again, but he should at least go where he's appreciated -- and I can't believe that can't be Kansas City.

"What I've always liked about him," one league source said [Rufas Dawes?], "is that he knows what a football player looks like. He doesn't need a stopwatch or a list of measureables. He can just look at a guy and tell."

I remember when Kuharich once told me about an offensive lineman he admired and how he was sure he would be a perfect fit for New Orleans. Yeah, I said, I had heard of Willie Roaf, but I wasn't sure he was a can't-miss prospect. Kuharich was.

Bill Kuharich knew what he was doing then, just as he knows what he's doing now. He deserves a chance to stay with the Chiefs. So give it to him, Scott Pioli.

Dead on. If the Chiefs would have been decent this year, Kuharich would be the new GM, and Herm would have gotten an extension.

Collateral damage is 100% correct.

I hope that Kuharich and Pioli get along well together and Kuharich sticks around a while.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by booger

Wow. From the timing of this you got to wonder If BK got the Saunders syndrome..........When Goother got the HC gig and Al told carl to f off and went to become WR coach under DV in STL.

BK came in the '00 season and Bradway was still here and Lynn Stiles had just rejoined after tagging along with DV for 3 years. Once DV became the coach he went for his players he had coached or Grob's players. For the most part it was the players that the coaching staff wanted first then the personell dept. In season, when there was time to fill the practice squad and replace spots on the roster because of injurie, etc it was always bring a player back that had went through that training camp. DV favored knowing the playbooks, system, and familiarity. With the exception of DV's last year and Goother's FA list.

I remember about that time PFT had a rumor about Carl hoping/wanting BK out the door to get another GM gig. He felt threatened that he was a better football man. Ever since then his name comes up for many of the GM openings each offseason. I'm sure he's putting his own name out there someway or another as well. Also like Saunders, he never actually gets these jobs.

They did the right thing letting him run the draft once Herm arrived. The drafts are not great but better the first 2 years and much better this past year. But the other part of it, VP of Player Personell, also includes FA. Blame it on many but he is a part of that too. I see it as more of a lack of being on the same page from GM down to the coaches, but that doesn't make it better in the eyes of Owners that seek GM's.

From a qualified standpoint yeah, he did deserve a look. From Clark's side he did what he had to do in the "fresh set of eye's" being a must. So the colateral damage part makes plenty of sense on why he wasn't given a look. Goonther went 16 and 16 his first and only years as HC. Does he deserve a second chance to run a team? Hell, Gailey had the same 2 years and same if not exact record and he didn't get a chance. There's only so many out there that will hire Norv Turner and Herm and give them more chances.

But what is really interesting is WHY? Not just why now but why. He either desperatley has his name thrown out there for a shot with the browns, wants out to pursue a lateral move, just plain wants out, or didn't feed the info to Clark Judge himself. Hell, he may be flat out pissed about the article. It could have been Carl that fed it as an FU to all that are thrilled ( fans, Clark, media attention the Pioli hire has made) .

I have read on here that Judge used to write for kcchiefs.com. So it might be him being pissy about the hire from the standpoint that it's a mega change in access from his pal Carl. Somewhere on this BB is an article from this past draft of Judge that did a play by play of each pick w/ Kuharich. It sure looked like a way of getting his name out there to either take over for Carl or get another GM job.

If BK is just being a crybaby I'd say this is his way of saying he wants out now. Normally you don't see a change in the personell side very quickly unlike coaching staff changes this time of year. Only the GM's. Teams don't want those moves to take place until after the draft because all the prep work is done.

I think him staying would be a plus and strengthen the team. But if his attitude isn't in it he could be one of the first ones out the door.

One a side note seeing Bob Moore ( the smaller gretz but still a chubby looking little monster type dude ) was suprising. Being carls second anus and Rufus Dawes probably puts his arse out the door very fast too.

What if Clark just wrote an honest column? Everything he said in there is true. Why do you think there is an some dark motive behind it?

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

Chiefs do the first smart thing in over a decade....and people just want to bitch....

i just want to win, i don't give a flying yak boner about anyone's feelings....

In related news, Fying Yak Boner is opening for Dane's Shaved Asshole, on tour now.

[Stryker]

MAYBE THEY WANTED SOMEONE FROM A "WINNING" ORGANIZATION


**** HIM!

[booger]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

What if Clark just wrote an honest column? Everything he said in there is true. Why do you think there is an some dark motive behind it?

Obviously we have different views after reading the article. To me it reads "How Dare he!!!" as to Clark not considering Bill.

Everything is true my ass. It's opinion. I agree with Bill's talents but he dedicated the whole article kissing his ass. And we end up with Pioli which makes it that more weird of an article.

I, for some stupid reason, watched a replay of the Carl exit presser. Joe Pa's piece really nailed it. Carl seemed bitter, thankful, and sincere. My impression is he didn't leave on his own and has a bit of resentment twards Clark. He's also pretty dissapointed in the Miami sale of ownership not going through yet. Plus the negative feedback the phins fans rightly had with the rumors of him coming there. Carl is truly out for himself and himself only.

And if Bill is pissed, he has a right to be in some ways. I'm sure he realizes Clark couldn't go wrong hiring who he did but that still doesn't take away the sting of him not being considered. He has and does thrive to be the top man again and that dissapointment is very understandable.

I just don't see, no matter if someone had an agenda or not, how this comes out favoring Bill. Maybe Judge didn't have anything better to write about.