The Friendly Skies...

[gblowfish]

Just kicked some poor guys ass for refusing to give up his seat!
You never see this on the United Airlines commercials....

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...ompting-outcry

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by New World Order

They reportedly did:

An airline employee came on board and said United needed four people to get off, Mr. Bridges said, adding that the airline had by then increased its incentive to an $800 voucher. The airline later said that it offered up to $1,000 in compensation.

Apparently they didn't raise it high enough. I think the end goal is to raise it high enough that you don't eventually resort to violence.

After Frontier Airlines was purchased by scum, I unwittingly bought a ticket since it used to be owned by non-scum and had been my preferred airline. I was then told at the check-in counter that I would not be allowed to board back with the ticket that I had paid for, unless I paid an additional $100 for my carry on. At that moment I began my boycott, and over the past three years, that policy has cost Frontier Airlines probably $10,000 of my business. I wasn't dragged bloody from a plane, but I was extorted out of money at the check-in counter that was not a part of my ticket price. Airlines need to be forced to honor their business contracts, and that's not happening. This is why I take the train whenever I can. Trains are cool. Airlines are not. (Possible exception: Southwest.)

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by BiStateNo

Indeed. As I understand it - the employees needed to be in Louisville the next AM. Now, growing up in Louisville, I can tell you that it is about a 4 hour drive from Chicago to Louisville. Hell, send the employees in a van. Or, take one of the other flights leaving for Louisville.

This is going to cost United (and rightfully so) millions of dollars in revenue and probably another million or two in the lawsuit that will most certainly follow. The hell of it? It could have been easily taken care of (as you pointed out).

Honest to God - I would rather take an ass whipping than fly these days.

Missed the part about the crew not needing to be there until the next morning... they could have driven halfway to Louisville by the time the flight took off.

[Frazod]

It should be noted that the airlines were taking it in the ass a few years ago back when fuel prices were sky high. Not the case now - they're just making money hand over fist. Not only is this overbooking bullshit horrible, but it's unjustified. And frankly it's ridiculous that they can shit all over paying customers like this as a matter of course.

Was this some kind of emergency? I'm sure that would have been reported had that been the case. I'd love to know the exact circumstances, and why it was so important to get these four assholes on the flight, paying customers be damned.

That's the bottom line. He paid his money, he boarded the flight, he sat in the seat he had paid for. Doesn't matter if he's a doctor, or a lawyer, or a bricklayer.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by Frazod

It should be noted that the airlines were taking it in the ass a few years ago back when fuel prices were sky high. Not the case now - they're just making money hand over fist. Not only is this overbooking bullshit horrible, but it's unjustified. And frankly it's ridiculous that they can shit all over paying customers like this as a matter of course.

Was this some kind of emergency? I'm sure that would have been reported had that been the case. I'd love to know the exact circumstances, and why it was so important to get these four assholes on the flight, paying customers be damned.

That's the bottom line. He paid his money, he boarded the flight, he sat in the seat he had paid for. Doesn't matter if he's a doctor, or a lawyer, or a bricklayer.

He was going to be performing open heart surgery on a corporate lawyer who works cases for the bricklayer's union.

[notorious]

The only reason I can see why United had to have the seats is that the employees were pilots that would have exceeded their duty time if they drove.

It was still a colossal mistake.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

He was going to be performing open heart surgery on a corporate lawyer who works cases for the bricklayer's union.

Well, in that case, they were right to drag him off the plane.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Frazod

It should be noted that the airlines were taking it in the ass a few years ago back when fuel prices were sky high. Not the case now - they're just making money hand over fist. Not only is this overbooking bullshit horrible, but it's unjustified. And frankly it's ridiculous that they can shit all over paying customers like this as a matter of course.

Was this some kind of emergency? I'm sure that would have been reported had that been the case. I'd love to know the exact circumstances, and why it was so important to get these four assholes on the flight, paying customers be damned.

That's the bottom line. He paid his money, he boarded the flight, he sat in the seat he had paid for. Doesn't matter if he's a doctor, or a lawyer, or a bricklayer.

Imagine if the guy was rushing to attend a critical procedure for someone else. Or perhaps attending to a medical emergency of his own or someone close in his family. That they could not accommodate a doctor with a legit reason for wanting to stay suggests they'd have no idea whatsoever how to accommodate a person with a major emergency.

Imagine if this guy had once in a lifetime super bowl tickets. Or had a make-it break-it meeting to close a multi-million dollar deal. That a customer would have zero choice but to leave a flight he didn't volunteer to leave suggests that they've dicked customers out of millions upon millions of dollars unapologetically over the years.

It's sad this guy had to be a martyr. But thankfully he exposed this kind of BS. Sadly, an incident like this is probably the only way any of us would have had awareness of just how bad this practice is.

[Rain Man]

The United Airlines CEO is apparently trying to become the most reviled man in America. After the "re-accommodation" statement that is going to go down in public relations history as the worst crisis communications ever, he's actually making it worse. Apparently he sent a communication to employees that says:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...410-story.html

According to CNBC, Munoz followed up Monday evening with a letter to employees defending the airline’s ground staff and describing the still-unidentified passenger as “disruptive and belligerent.” He said the airline agents “were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight.”

[But Munoz, whose version of the episode appears to come from the playbook of how to dig oneself into an ever deeper hole, also undermined the argument that the flight was overbooked. He related that “after the flight was fully boarded,” gate agents “were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.” The implication is that the crewmembers heading to Louisville were late in arriving, that every passenger held a paid ticket and had been properly boarded, and only that only belatedly did United decide to pull passengers off the plane to make room.


I must admit, as a market research person this is very exciting to me. You very seldom get to see a company do exactly everything in the worst possible manner. It's really helpful in setting an entirely new baseline against which to measure ineptness in communications.

[Miles]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Apparently they didn't raise it high enough. I think the end goal is to raise it high enough that you don't eventually resort to violence.

After Frontier Airlines was purchased by scum, I unwittingly bought a ticket since it used to be owned by non-scum and had been my preferred airline. I was then told at the check-in counter that I would not be allowed to board back with the ticket that I had paid for, unless I paid an additional $100 for my carry on. At that moment I began my boycott, and over the past three years, that policy has cost Frontier Airlines probably $10,000 of my business. I wasn't dragged bloody from a plane, but I was extorted out of money at the check-in counter that was not a part of my ticket price. Airlines need to be forced to honor their business contracts, and that's not happening. This is why I take the train whenever I can. Trains are cool. Airlines are not. (Possible exception: Southwest.)

Frontier's CEO used to be at Spirit and must have brought their absurd feejpliciesn with him.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Imagine if the guy was rushing to attend a critical procedure for someone else. Or perhaps attending to a medical emergency of his own or someone close in his family. That they could not accommodate a doctor with a legit reason for wanting to stay suggests they'd have no idea whatsoever how to accommodate a person with a major emergency.

Imagine if this guy had once in a lifetime super bowl tickets. Or had a make-it break-it meeting to close a multi-million dollar deal. That a customer would have zero choice but to leave a flight he didn't volunteer to leave suggests that they've dicked customers out of millions upon millions of dollars unapologetically over the years.

It's sad this guy had to be a martyr. But thankfully he exposed this kind of BS. Sadly, an incident like this is probably the only way any of us would have had awareness of just how bad this practice is.

I agree, but frankly, it wouldn't matter if he was some slumlord jerk flying down to Louisville to bone his teenage mistress. He paid for his seat. The end.

I hope this controversy doesn't go away, but sadly it probably will. I just saw a story claiming that 40,000 people a year are bumped off flights like this, and that number doesn't count the ones who voluntarily take vouchers. That is unacceptable.

If this hadn't happened three days after I booked a flight to Atlanta (on an airline other than United, thank God), I would seriously reconsider flying and just make the 10 hour drive instead.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

The United Airlines CEO is apparently trying to become the most reviled man in America. After the "re-accommodation" statement that is going to go down in public relations history as the worst crisis communications ever, he's actually making it worse. Apparently he sent a communication to employees that says:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hilt...410-story.html

According to CNBC, Munoz followed up Monday evening with a letter to employees defending the airline’s ground staff and describing the still-unidentified passenger as “disruptive and belligerent.” He said the airline agents “were left with no choice but to call Chicago Aviation Security Officers to assist in removing the customer from the flight.”

[But Munoz, whose version of the episode appears to come from the playbook of how to dig oneself into an ever deeper hole, also undermined the argument that the flight was overbooked. He related that “after the flight was fully boarded,” gate agents “were approached by crewmembers that were told they needed to board the flight.” The implication is that the crewmembers heading to Louisville were late in arriving, that every passenger held a paid ticket and had been properly boarded, and only that only belatedly did United decide to pull passengers off the plane to make room.


I must admit, as a market research person this is very exciting to me. You very seldom get to see a company do exactly everything in the worst possible manner. It's really helpful in setting an entirely new baseline against which to measure ineptness in communications.

The scary thing is, if it hadn't have been taped or if the guy was even slightly "belligerent" or if the guy wasn't bloodied up, this would have been a blip. PR and spin especially in a time of social media has given big corporations a huge advantage in sweeping things under the rug. How can a small guy like this compete with a massive, extremely well trained spin team? That they would go as far to even attack the victim is frightening on so many levels.

I'm not even outraged by the forceful removal as much as I am the audacity to completely upend a paying customer just to save a few hundred bucks.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Miles

Frontier's CEO used to be at Spirit and must have brought their absurd feejpliciesn with him.

I've never used Spirit Airlines because of recommendations on here, but I'm told that Frontier directly copied their business model.

I actually have nothing against the business model itself. The problem is that they don't clearly communicate their fees and indeed try to cover them up. Frontier still markets through third-party places like Orbitz with the full knowledge that they're actively misleading customers. In contrast, Southwest Airlines doesn't use the third parties. With Southwest, you know exactly what you're getting, so I'm a loyal Southwest flier now. I kind of wish I could pay a little extra for more legroom or an aisle seat, but hey, it's Southwest's business model so I'll work with them on it.

When I think about flying, there are three things I want:

1. I want a lack of surprises, because surprises in travel are always negative.
2. I want a trip where I feel safe.
3. I'd like comfort.

Companies like Frontier and Spirit provide none of the three. They make their money by springing surprises on customers. The constant nickel-and-diming gives me the impression that they're squeezing every penny, which makes me wonder about maintenance, training, and safety. And they're even worse than other airlines about comfort. So...zero for three.

Southwest gives me two out of three. No airline will give you comfort any more, so I'll settle for two out of three.

[Mr. Laz]

law suit!

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

The scary thing is, if it hadn't have been taped or if the guy was even slightly "belligerent" or if the guy wasn't bloodied up, this would have been a blip. PR and spin especially in a time of social media has given big corporations a huge advantage in sweeping things under the rug. How can a small guy like this compete with a massive, extremely well trained spin team? That they would go as far to even attack the victim is frightening on so many levels.

I'm not even outraged by the forceful removal as much as I am the audacity to completely upend a paying customer just to save a few hundred bucks.

Yeah, that's the key point in my mind. This was not a safety decision. It was a decision to save a few hundred bucks. And now they're trying to blame the guy that they forcibly dragged off the airplane.

This will seriously be discussed in public relations courses for the next fifty years. The event itself, and then the United Airlines response that is being botched on a cosmic scale.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Imagine if the guy was rushing to attend a critical procedure for someone else. Or perhaps attending to a medical emergency of his own or someone close in his family. That they could not accommodate a doctor with a legit reason for wanting to stay suggests they'd have no idea whatsoever how to accommodate a person with a major emergency.

Imagine if this guy had once in a lifetime super bowl tickets. Or had a make-it break-it meeting to close a multi-million dollar deal. That a customer would have zero choice but to leave a flight he didn't volunteer to leave suggests that they've dicked customers out of millions upon millions of dollars unapologetically over the years.

It's sad this guy had to be a martyr. But thankfully he exposed this kind of BS. Sadly, an incident like this is probably the only way any of us would have had awareness of just how bad this practice is.

And contrast that with something that has to happen all the ****ing time -- needing to get staff elsewhere overnight. Who knows how many people have been bumped for exactly the same reason, which goes back to 'making a stand against a terrible process'.

And maybe that guy has no upper limit, but someone on that plane did. And if not, there were other options for getting your people to a city 300 miles away within ~10-12 hours.

I once flew from LA to KC the day of game 7 of the World Series (the flights to/from LA had been booked a month prior for work) and bought tickets to the game while sitting in LAX (much less being a doctor and actually doing something important)... not sure what my limit would be in that case, but I'm sure no airline would meet it. But, keep raising that limit by a hundred or two, and someone will give up their seat.