The whole key to the offseason right here

[Chris Meck]

I brought this up in another thread, but I feel like it may warrant it's own.

IF you cut Houston, it costs you $7 million, (5.6 if you wait till June 2 but you kinda can't wait that long to free up the cash)

If you tag and keep Ford, it's going to cost you like $16 million.

So you've got $23 million conservatively wrapped up in one position: RDE.

IF you keep Houston at $21 million, and tag and trade Ford's $16 million,

you have $21 million in that RDE position. PLUS you get the pick for Ford, which will be I think a decent #2 and perhaps a low #1.

With the extra high pick, you draft a RDE somewhere in your 4 picks in the top 64, along with a CB, and a S.

You'll have enough for one, maybe two impact FA's and be set for next year, when you can cut Houston for only $1.5 dead cap.

I think we've been looking at this wrong; it's a net savings to keep HOUSTON and let FORD go. He's also the better all-around player.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by King_Chief_Fan

Houston must restructure

except what are you restructuring to?

His base salary in 2020 is $19 million. However, you can cut him for $1.5 million in dead cap; saving $17.5 million.

Remember, Patrick's deal is on the horizon here.

I'm saying I think it might be literally more financially smart to eat the $21 m this year and cut him next year.

As long as draft a DE this year to be ready to carry a full load next year, we're in good shape.

[saphojunkie]

If you extend Houston, you can convert his salary this year to bonus, reducing his cap hit to under $12M a year, radically increasing his guaranteed money, but keeping him affordable.

It helps all parties. Houston gets more guaranteed money, chiefs keep their best defender, and you can trade Ford, freeing him over $25M in cap space ($15.7M for Ford, and reducing $21M cap hit for Ford down to $11-$12M)

[BossChief]

I’d have to look at next years cap figures to see if it makes sense, but Houston’s base is 14m and Veach can convert 12.5 of that to a signing bonus that pushes that much dead money into next season, but saves 2019 cap 12.5 million while keeping JH50.

If they are going all in this offseason (which I’ve read and heard a few places a month ago) that very well
May be an option they are thinking about.

It’s a shame Ford has various concerns that factor into his ability to replicate and build upon what he did last year. If Veach gives him a long term deal for fair money his cap hit for 2019 can be as low as 4-5m.

Gotta wonder if Veach is going to push all of his chips in like LA did and try to push for a super bowl this year or if he’s gonna go a different route.

Buckle up, it’s gonna be interesting.

We might keep everyone and add 2-3 good FAs, or move on from some bloated contracts and start developing lots of youth right away.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

If you extend Houston, you can convert his salary this year to bonus, reducing his cap hit to under $12M a year, radically increasing his guaranteed money, but keeping him affordable.

It helps all parties. Houston gets more guaranteed money, chiefs keep their best defender, and you can trade Ford, freeing him over $25M in cap space ($15.7M for Ford, and reducing $21M cap hit for Ford down to $11-$12M)

I could get behind that.

[saphojunkie]

It's hard, because the decisions have to factor in both the window of opportunity, as well as the impending long-term Mahomes deal.

I cannot ****ing imagine the metric shit ton of love he would receive if he pulled a Brady and took less than market value in order to field the most competitive team.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by BossChief

I’d have to look at next years cap figures to see if it makes sense, but Houston’s base is 14m and Veach can convert 12.5 of that to a signing bonus that pushes that much dead money into next season, but saves 2019 cap 12.5 million while keeping JH50.

If they are going all in this offseason (which I’ve read and heard a few places a month ago) that very well
May be an option they are thinking about.

It’s a shame Ford has various concerns that factor into his ability to replicate and build upon what he did last year. If Veach gives him a long term deal for fair money his cap hit for 2019 can be as low as 4-5m.

Gotta wonder if Veach is going to push all of his chips in like LA did and try to push for a super bowl this year or if he’s gonna go a different route.

Buckle up, it’s gonna be interesting.

We might keep everyone and add 2-3 good FAs, or move on from some bloated contracts and start developing lots of youth right away.

I don't think it's a smart way to go (The LA style all-in). I mean, they spent all that money on that defense...how'd that work out for them? Other than Donald, who's homegrown I don't think it did at ALL. Plus, they've got what, maybe one more run before they have to start cutting everybody? They paid for a top flight defense and that ain't what they got.

I just don't think that's a good way to compete for multiple super bowls. And I don't want ONE. I want TEN.

but back to the topic-I think Houston is our best defensive player. He's a well rounded player, Ford is a specialist.

I'd rather keep Houston and draft a DE as his replacement down the road and move Ford while his value is high.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

If you extend Houston, you can convert his salary this year to bonus, reducing his cap hit to under $12M a year, radically increasing his guaranteed money, but keeping him affordable.

It helps all parties. Houston gets more guaranteed money, chiefs keep their best defender, and you can trade Ford, freeing him over $25M in cap space ($15.7M for Ford, and reducing $21M cap hit for Ford down to $11-$12M)

That will probably mean that we have to keep Houston through the end of his contract. The more you restructure and push back the cap impact, the longer you are locked into a contract. Houston will probably want another year added to the end of the original contract to give him even more leverage.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by JakeF

That will probably mean that we have to keep Houston through the end of his contract. The more you restructure and push back the cap impact, the longer you are locked into a contract. Houston will probably want another year added to the end of the original contract to give him even more leverage.

I kind of tend to agree, which is why I was like, **** it just pay him the $21, draft his replacement for next year and to rotate this year. It's cheaper than it is to cut him and pay Ford.

But if you want to maybe keep him you'd have to what...convert to bonus which then spreads the cap hit out so you'd have to pay him next year too although it would be a lower cap hit. Of course, at that lower number for 2 years you likely want to keep him anyway.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I kind of tend to agree, which is why I was like, **** it just pay him the $21, draft his replacement for next year and to rotate this year. It's cheaper than it is to cut him and pay Ford.

But if you want to maybe keep him you'd have to what...convert to bonus which then spreads the cap hit out so you'd have to pay him next year too although it would be a lower cap hit. Of course, at that lower number for 2 years you likely want to keep him anyway.

Basically what's guaranteed is $22.5 million. $21 this year, $1.5 next year right ? (the dead cap # if you cut him.)

So yeah, if you could convert to bonus, spread the cap hit out to $11 m it's a no brainer, right?

[JakeF]

We have a huge problem right now it appears. Two of our best players have us over a barrel with hugh, poorly-written contracts. It also appears like they are giving the team a middle finger in terms of coorperation. They are friends so i imagine they have discussed it and know if they work together they can really control the situation.

I wonder if they will actually come out and tell the chiefs that they consider this a package deal? Keep us both or cut us both.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by JakeF

We have a huge problem right now it appears. Two of our best players have us over a barrel with hugh, poorly-written contracts. It also appears like they are giving the team a middle finger in terms of coorperation. They are friends so i imagine they have discussed it and know if they work together they can really control the situation.

I wonder if they will actually come out and tell the chiefs that they consider this a package deal? Keep us both or cut us both.

you've got to be careful to separate the business from the team.

These guys pay agents to act in their best interests. It's really early in the offseason, so agents aren't talking deal right now, why would they?

Wait and see how it shakes out. I don't think either of these guys are "ME" guys; they aren't Antonio Brown.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

I kind of tend to agree, which is why I was like, **** it just pay him the $21, draft his replacement for next year and to rotate this year. It's cheaper than it is to cut him and pay Ford.

But if you want to maybe keep him you'd have to what...convert to bonus which then spreads the cap hit out so you'd have to pay him next year too although it would be a lower cap hit. Of course, at that lower number for 2 years you likely want to keep him anyway.

Paying him the 21 million and keeping him 1 more year is the smart thing for the cap. The problem is it will kill our FA this year. Unless we can tag/trade Dee Ford, then we will free up some room.

Houston and Berry have some crappy contracts for the team. If Mahome wasn't on his rookie year we'd need to cut players to get under the cap.

I don't think we can't afford to keep Ford. Too much risk involved and not enough cap room to make it work.

Keep Houston, maybe with a small restructure. Trade Ford for another high draft pick. Make this is an all-draft offseason to get the team back on track financially.

Veach will have to earn his paycheck.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by JakeF

Paying him the 21 million and keeping him 1 more year is the smart thing for the cap. The problem is it will kill our FA this year. Unless we can tag/trade Dee Ford, then we will free up some room.

Houston and Berry have some crappy contracts for the team. If Mahome wasn't on his rookie year we'd need to cut players to get under the cap.

I don't think we can't afford to keep Ford. Too much risk involved and not enough cap room to make it work.

Keep Houston, maybe with a small restructure. Trade Ford for another high draft pick. Make this is an all-draft offseason to get the team back on track financially.

Veach will have to earn his paycheck.

Tagging Ford and keeping him is what is going to kill the cap the most.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Tagging Ford and keeping him is what is going to kill the cap the most.

I'm hoping that we can trade him for a high draft pick.

[Toad]

Originally Posted by Chief Northman

Here's the trouble from my POV:

- As soon as Ford is tagged, his tag number ($15-16 million) automatically counts against the 2019 salary cap, signed or not.
- Houston's cap number is $21 million, and the Chiefs would incur a $7.1 million hit in dead money with his release, but free up $14 million in cap space - this $14 million almost accounts for Ford's 2019 salary/cap hit.
- I get the notion of getting a high pick for Ford if he can be traded, BUT:
i) The longer a trade takes to develop, the longer you are hampered with Ford's cap number counting against the salary cap - this is a problem as all teams want as much cap/money available at the start of free agency.
ii) Ford can wait quite a while to sign if he wants, hampering the Chiefs ability to acquire free agents, or if he does not desire a rumored/negotiated trade.
iii) You have to be sure you are getting fair value in a Ford trade: teams know that waiting a bit on trading for a tagged Ford can/will bring down the trade value. Teams will apply pressure on the cap-strapped Chiefs in any trade talks as they know his cap hit applies the moment he is tagged.

This is the greater reason why we are likely hearing of a Ford tag/retention, Houston release - the Chiefs need $$$$$$ at the start of free agency, and don't want to be left standing on the outside while players sign deals elsewhere. The Chiefs cap flexibility is a delicate balance given the circumstances of the big contracts (Ford/Houston/Berry).

You may be on to something with the timing thing.

From my understanding, teams can apply the tag between Feb 20 thru March 14. Free agency starts on or around March 14. If the team cannot secure a trade by then, they are hand tied for the prime time of FA.

It is a risk.