Okay, so what *is* your plan for the 2023 passrush?

[Direckshun]

Alright, it's bleeding into multiple threads, so let's forge a master thread to control all others, and into this thread we will pour our cruelty, our malice, and our will to dominate all life. Truly a thread to rule them all.

You guys shat on me when I wanted to pour two 1sts into Brian Burns. You guys shat on me when I wanted to pour two 1sts into Josh Allen. And just for fun a couple of you guys were jerks when I wanted to go sign Bradley Chubb this coming offseason.

Just a bunch of meanies.

So what is your plan, exactly? This team needs a front four that can get pressure, Karlaftis isn't developing with the speed we'd like, and Jones is the only guy who can get to the QB.

What's your plan?

Here's the free agent passrushers this coming offseason. And the Chiefs do have 11 draft picks, but only one 1st, one 2nd, and one 3rd.

Are you going to burn a 1st? You're probably going to need that 1st (plus additional ammo) to get the offensive tackle you're simultaneously complaining we need to replace Brown at LT. If you take the 1st for DL, you're tagging and/or extending Brown, and you should say so.

I assume you're cutting Frank Clark, so the Chiefs will have about $50m to play with, but this is your 2023 depth chart right now:

DE: Danna, Herring
DT: Jones,
DT:
DE: Karlaftis, Kaindoh

That's it, suckers. You're probably going to need to add two DEs, and three DTs, minimum.

Current Chiefs who will be RFA: Wharton

Current Chiefs who will be FA: Saunders, Nnadi, Dunlap, Stallworth, Shelton, Azur Kamara

So what's your plan? kccrow's? His top three DEs are Karlaftis, Mike Danna, and Dawuane Smoot. I'm underwhelmed and ashamed.

Whatever your plan is, be prepared for me to hate it. I just hate it already.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I’d have taken Sam Williams without a second thought. Even with drafting George. It’s a blue chip position.

These 2nd/3rd tier level SEC schools are where all the steals are. Basically the Mississippi schools.

Chris Jones
Willie Gay
Dak Prescott
Gabe Jackson
Montez Sweat
Elgton Jenkins
AJ Brown
DK Metcalf
Dawson Knox
Elijah Moore
Sam Williams

It’s like all the guys the top SEC schools didn’t want. I think Mississippi is the state where the majority of the biggest steals of the draft are.

Even L’Jarius Sneed played in Mississippi

I know you were really high on Williams too but you were also pretty vocal about WR and were especially championing moving up for Jameson Williams. So, you would have completely overlooked WR at 50 to take Williams? I'm not sure I can believe that.

I think Veach ****ed up in his calculations and settled for Moore but standing pat at 50 it would have been tough to double-dip at DE with Pickens and Pierce sitting there and a pretty dire need to get a rookie WR in the fold.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I’d have taken Sam Williams without a second thought. Even with drafting George. It’s a blue chip position.

These 2nd/3rd tier level SEC schools are where all the steals are. Basically the Mississippi schools.

Chris Jones
Willie Gay
Dak Prescott
Gabe Jackson
Montez Sweat
Elgton Jenkins
AJ Brown
DK Metcalf
Dawson Knox
Elijah Moore
Sam Williams

It’s like all the guys the top SEC schools didn’t want. I think Mississippi is the state where the majority of the biggest steals of the draft are.

Even L’Jarius Sneed played in Mississippi

You forgot Nick Bolton...

[Couch-Potato]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I’d have taken Sam Williams without a second thought. Even with drafting George. It’s a blue chip position.

These 2nd/3rd tier level SEC schools are where all the steals are. Basically the Mississippi schools.

Chris Jones
Willie Gay
Dak Prescott
Gabe Jackson
Montez Sweat
Elgton Jenkins
AJ Brown
DK Metcalf
Dawson Knox
Elijah Moore
Sam Williams

It’s like all the guys the top SEC schools didn’t want. I think Mississippi is the state where the majority of the biggest steals of the draft are.

Even L’Jarius Sneed played in Mississippi

Interesting note!

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato

Interesting note!

Right? All the steals come from two SEC schools that produce a lot of NFL talent. Who would have thought?!

It'd be like me saying, well, how about Wisconsin and Northwestern in the B1G?! I mean, not quite the same state but near the same geographical distance apart, and I'd still be giving an overwhelming edge to Miss St/Ole Miss.

It's not even a great argument. Should Veach scour the shit out of those programs? Of course, because they produce a lot of NFL talent every year.

It's not an argument to make sense of him trying to cover for his obvious desire to add a WR last year, one he would have TRUMPED taking a DE to get by trading up for Jameson Williams.

And btw, Sneed never played for a Mississippi program.

[Chris Meck]

Give me Ngakoue, who is more productive than anyone we have, and then JJ Watt for the limited snaps crusty old vet role. Come get a ring, JJ! You deserve it. He'd also be a great mentor for Karlaftis. Then give me a draftee no later than #62 at DE. And a mountain for nose somewhere around round 3.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Give me Ngakoue, who is more productive than anyone we have, and then JJ Watt for the limited snaps crusty old vet role. Come get a ring, JJ! You deserve it. He'd also be a great mentor for Karlaftis. Then give me a draftee no later than #62 at DE. And a mountain for nose somewhere around round 3.

More I think about it the more I think we just have to do way more in FA. It's funny how much people swing between "FA is for needs" to "Fix it through the draft" normally the latter comes after something isn't fixed in FA.

I'm not a fan of Ngakoue or JJ, I think both will ask for too much and offer too little at this stage. Would much rather a middling DT option and a guy like Okoronkwo or Omenihu as a decent pass-rusher that's probably cheaper, and younger. I'd probably then still take a top 2 picks DE.

[Perineum Ripper]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Give me Ngakoue, who is more productive than anyone we have, and then JJ Watt for the limited snaps crusty old vet role. Come get a ring, JJ! You deserve it. He'd also be a great mentor for Karlaftis. Then give me a draftee no later than #62 at DE. And a mountain for nose somewhere around round 3.

[Dull Tools]

What are peoples opinions of Marcus Davenport. He could be decent and is coming off a down year so should be cheaper.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Dull Tools

What are peoples opinions of Marcus Davenport. He could be decent and is coming off a down year so should be cheaper.

Very good, but will probably still cost us more money than we can afford. If he's anywhere near in value as some of the other names mentioned id go for it no doubt.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by JPH83

More I think about it the more I think we just have to do way more in FA. It's funny how much people swing between "FA is for needs" to "Fix it through the draft" normally the latter comes after something isn't fixed in FA.

I'm not a fan of Ngakoue or JJ, I think both will ask for too much and offer too little at this stage. Would much rather a middling DT option and a guy like Okoronkwo or Omenihu as a decent pass-rusher that's probably cheaper, and younger. I'd probably then still take a top 2 picks DE.

Ngakoue has 9 sacks this far this season, and is 27.
Watt has 7 sacks this season, and is 34 and often injured.

Both play for shit teams and don't have the benefit of playing with a lead, where sacks come in bunches.

Both are around $15m per, give or take. If they were currently Chiefs, we would have Jones with 10.5 sacks, Ngakoue with 9, and Watt with 7 before any current DE's become part of the conversation. That's a pretty huge influx of production considering we could mostly pay for one of them by cutting Clark and only have to pay the other out of our available cap.

Neither of your picks are as productive, although they would be cheaper.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Ngakoue has 9 sacks this far this season, and is 27.
Watt has 7 sacks this season, and is 34 and often injured.

Both play for shit teams and don't have the benefit of playing with a lead, where sacks come in bunches.

Both are around $15m per, give or take. If they were currently Chiefs, we would have Jones with 10.5 sacks, Ngakoue with 9, and Watt with 7 before any current DE's become part of the conversation. That's a pretty huge influx of production considering we could mostly pay for one of them by cutting Clark and only have to pay the other out of our available cap.

Neither of your picks are as productive, although they would be cheaper.

Ngakoue is absolute feast or famine. He'll still get you a decent haul of sacks no doubt, more than the guys I'm mentioning, and that has value. But he also then goes missing a lot. Watt as you say is perma-injured. Do I want a guy getting 7 sacks in half a season then probably being out for the playoffs, not really.

Anyway, could we afford both? If we could then we could afford Davenport and Omenihu and I'd rather those guys. I think Davenport will get those sacks back.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by JPH83

Ngakoue is absolute feast or famine. He'll still get you a decent haul of sacks no doubt, more than the guys I'm mentioning, and that has value. But he also then goes missing a lot. Watt as you say is perma-injured. Do I want a guy getting 7 sacks in half a season then probably being out for the playoffs, not really.

Anyway, could we afford both? If we could then we could afford Davenport and Omenihu and I'd rather those guys. I think Davenport will get those sacks back.

Maybe.

I don't think Watt is going to get a big money deal at this point. I would imagine, just knowing what I know about the guy, that he would want a real chance at a championship, and that would be his primary motivational factor. He's done everything else in this league. I think if you're talking rotational snaps, you could figure he'd last the season. If you need him to play 90% snaps or something you're probably going to be lacking. But 30%? I'd take that for probably around $10m.

Ngakoue is a speed rusher, which is kind of the missing ingredient, in my opinion. We don't have anyone that threatens from the snap. He's getting $14m this year. I'd take him for that, and see no reason why he would be a bunch more next year. As a second and third down pass rush specialist, I think that'd be a good haul.

Considering we're paying Frank Clark what both of those guys would cost, I'd call that a win.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Maybe.

I don't think Watt is going to get a big money deal at this point. I would imagine, just knowing what I know about the guy, that he would want a real chance at a championship, and that would be his primary motivational factor. He's done everything else in this league. I think if you're talking rotational snaps, you could figure he'd last the season. If you need him to play 90% snaps or something you're probably going to be lacking. But 30%? I'd take that for probably around $10m.

Ngakoue is a speed rusher, which is kind of the missing ingredient, in my opinion. We don't have anyone that threatens from the snap. He's getting $14m this year. I'd take him for that, and see no reason why he would be a bunch more next year. As a second and third down pass rush specialist, I think that'd be a good haul.

Considering we're paying Frank Clark what both of those guys would cost, I'd call that a win.

It is insane how much we've paid Clark. Jesus Christ

[kccrow]

I'd be game for Ngakoue if he's around the same amount he's making now but if it's higher then probably pass.

As for Watt, man... what a disappointing ending to an otherwise unbelievable career. If you could get him for a full slate of games, that's great. I just don't think it's likely anymore. If I'm a GM, it's probably a hard pass unless he sits out early and I'm picking him up late in the season.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I'd be game for Ngakoue if he's around the same amount he's making now but if it's higher then probably pass.

As for Watt, man... what a disappointing ending to an otherwise unbelievable career. If you could get him for a full slate of games, that's great. I just don't think it's likely anymore. If I'm a GM, it's probably a hard pass unless he sits out early and I'm picking him up late in the season.

If you get JJ Watt, a decent strategy might be to save him for the 4th quarter of close regular season games and obviously the 2nd half of close Playoff games. I think perhaps he could be a good teacher/coach for younger players like Karlaftis. That's where Watt could provide a ton of value, regardless of what he might be doing on the field.