Jones...keep or get a haul?

[Chris Meck]

I'm just going to put this here.

But I see a lot of parallels to the Hill situation. Unquestionably elite player surrounded by JAGs. Potential huge haul in draft capital as well as salary cap relief.

Jones plus whatever dudes isn't getting it done. We won't be drafting in position to properly re-stock LT or DE if we keep him, and we can't afford top of the market replacements.

Maybe we should move him. What kind of haul do you think we could get?

[Wisconsin_Chief]

Starting to think maybe this is the route you go, only if Jones pulls a Tyreek and expects to reset the market. If he wants to be here and takes a team friendly deal, then you have to keep him.

If he wants $30 million a year, zero chance I'm giving him that.

[O.city]

The Hill situation was different in that you had Pat and Andy and were able to absorb that.

You aint' got a Mahomes buffer on D. You need better players around him, not to move him.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Hill situation was different in that you had Pat and Andy and were able to absorb that.

You aint' got a Mahomes buffer on D. You need better players around him, not to move him.

I agree entirely EXCEPT the fact that keeping him may make that impossible in terms of draft capital/position and cap space.

We might be able to get THREE plus players (high pick, one plus starting vet, one aging but still useful guy) for what Jones costs to keep.

I don't know, and I haven't come to any firm conclusions, just thought it was an interesting question.

[DJ's left nut]

The reason it's Jones and JAGS is that in an off-season where we acknowledged the DL was an enormous problem, we took half-assed efforts at addressing it.

It's easier to upgrade the JAGS than it is to replace Chris Jones.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The reason it's Jones and JAGS is that in an off-season where we acknowledged the DL was an enormous problem, we took half-assed efforts at addressing it.

It's easier to upgrade the JAGS than it is to replace Chris Jones.

Is it though?

Because upgrading the JAGS in a significant manner means a mid to high first round pick, or a LOT of money in free agency. We have neither.

I'm not necessarily saying we should move him; but I'm not sure we can significantly improve because of available draft capital and cap resources.

I love Jones, I think he's great. But does what it takes to keep him preclude us from getting the better players we need?

It's like with Hill. We had Hill and a bunch of JAGS. We're better with a better GROUP. Maybe it's the same thing with Jones and the DL. He should be a force multiplier, but he's really not.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Is it though?

Because upgrading the JAGS in a significant manner means a mid to high first round pick, or a LOT of money in free agency. We have neither.

I'm not necessarily saying we should move him; but I'm not sure we can significantly improve because of available draft capital and cap resources.

I love Jones, I think he's great. But does what it takes to keep him preclude us from getting the better players we need?

It's like with Hill. We had Hill and a bunch of JAGS. We're better with a better GROUP. Maybe it's the same thing with Jones and the DL. He should be a force multiplier, but he's really not.

He is a force multiplier, but the force he's multiplying is like 1.1.

Multiply it by 4 and you're still only at 4.4.

Now change the N to even 1.5 and even if your force multiplier is only by 3, you're still at 4.5.

In any given week he's starting alongside 3 bench/rotational players. He doesn't have a single starting caliber player on that DL with him. And maybe you're right - maybe we have a blind spot in our scouting that will prevent us from getting 1 or 2 of those at a reasonable investment. So maybe we do need to move him.

But I'd like to at least TRY to build around him first. We him for another year and could potentially tag/trade him after the season. I just hate how little effort we put into improving the talent around him.

[Chiefspants]

While I am pro-Veach, I do not believe he has earned the trust necessary to replace even 75% of Jones' value on the Defensive Line. If there is anything he has struggled with since becoming GM, it's finding singular, game-changing playmakers on either side of the ball.

I do think he's been fantastic at finding plug and play, consistent glue guys to fill out a roster, especially in the back end of the draft. This is just as, if not more important. Consider him the Anti-Carl in that way.

[O.city]

For him to be a force multiplier, you need other guys around him that are making somewhat of an impact.

Look at Parsons in Dallas. They've got Lawrence, Williams, etc.

Bosa in SF etc.

The issue isn't Jones. It's that they didn't do enough to put guys around him and then the Frank Clark "illness" anchor.

[RunKC]

I like Karlaftis but it’s pretty clear we should have drafted Sam Williams. You could make an argument that we should have drafted both, but I would raise you Juan Thronhill’s absolutely terrible tackling which lead to them drafting Bryan Cook

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I like Karlaftis but it’s pretty clear we should have drafted Sam Williams. You could make an argument that we should have drafted both, but I would raise you Juan Thronhill’s absolutely terrible tackling which lead to them drafting Bryan Cook

Reid can't tackle worth a shit either.

[RunKC]

At least Reid tries to make tackles. Juan is just plain scared out there

[The Franchise]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I like Karlaftis but it’s pretty clear we should have drafted Sam Williams. You could make an argument that we should have drafted both, but I would raise you Juan Thronhill’s absolutely terrible tackling which lead to them drafting Bryan Cook

Let's keep repeating this over and over. I'm sure it will ****ing help.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

At least Reid tries to make tackles. Juan is just plain scared out there

How about actually make them?

[kccrow]

Man, I'm torn on this front.

He is the only reasonable pass rush we have at all right now. It's not like the SF situation when they traded Buckner where they already had Bosa and Armstead. If we had that situation, then sure. And remember, they only got 1 pick, 13th overall.

Everyone bitches about him disappearing in big games, but look at last night... The guy was double-teamed a lot and I even saw him triple-teamed a few times. That's absurd. Getting tripled in the NFL shouldn't even be something the opposition should have an option to do with against a 4-man front. Frank Clark got absolutely abused by a TE FFS.

While I like what Karlaftis is showing, there's just no way to expect him to light the world on fire yet and he's not a guy that's probably going to be a 10+ sack guy. He's a guy that looks like 7-8 with some quality pressure. He's a rookie though and he just has some technique and strength to continue to develop to start getting home more.

Dunlap is solid in spurts but he's old and isn't the answer going forward. As for the rest... I mean what a hot steaming pile of shit. Danna gets blown off the ball more than he doesn't, Frank is ... I don't even want to talk about that useless ****, and then there's nothing of note.

DT around Jones is arguably as bad as DE. There is nobody to force a double from time-to-time.

If I'm looking at this situation right now as Veach, I'm going to do all I can with my 1st, 3rd, and a future pick to go up and get a LT. I'm taking my 2nd and putting it on whatever I can on the D-Line.

As for offseason resources, I'd like to think RT, JuJu, and as much D-Line help as I can muster. Bring in 10 guys and see what shakes, I don't give a ****, but do something.

In the end, though, I'm having a reaaaaaaaaaaallly hard time convincing myself that moving Chris Jones is the answer right now.

There are only 3 teams inside the top 10 right now that I could see thinking Jones could put them in a much better position in 2023, Philadelphia, Jacksonville, and Arizona. That's what it would take for me to make that deal and ideally, I'd want at least a kicker pick of a 3rd.

To Philly for a 1st, 3rd and conditional 2024 3rd would probably be max return you could hope for. I just don't know if it's plausible.

You have the pick to lock down what may be the pick of the litter at LT at what is currently 6th overall and enough ammo to move around from late 1 or late 2 to position yourself to fix the defensive line.

You gotta replace Jones though and you already have to replace the abomination at NT. Greg Gaines from LA could be a nice get in the offseason at NT if the Rams let him walk. Then maybe you target a guy like Jaquelin Roy, if he declares, as your 3.

I dunno, a tough decision coming up for Veach that I don't know if I'd want to have to make. Jones is the only real tradeable commodity he has and now isn't the worst time to do it. I just hate the thought of losing him and not being able to replace his production and overall impact, then what?