Football The mystery of our fascination with Outside Zone - Page 6

DJ's left nut · 09-22-2022, 10:34 AM

So I'll gladly listen to anyone that wants to correct me on this one, but it sure looks to me like the Chiefs STILL prefer an outside zone running system and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.

There's an article in the Athletic that really sums up my confusing in a lot of ways. It's about the Lions dedication to a power gap scheme. Here's a little blurb that kinda makes my point for me:

Quote:

The popularity of the outside zone system that stems from Kyle Shanahan and Sean McVay has led to more teams employing a Vic Fangio-style defense, which asks defensive linemen to play slower and take on a gap-and-a-half, rather than fly upfield and play only one gap. Theoretically, the defense can live in light boxes and invest more personnel in defending the pass as long as its front can slow down ball carriers long enough for the secondary to help. This works well against zone runs because offensive linemen move laterally, but the Lions like to run right into the teeth of defenses with authority. They want their offensive line, one of the best in the league, firing off vertically and punishing defenders.

https://theathletic.com/3613162/2022...e-ben-johnson/

WHY IS THIS NOT OUR RUNNING GAME!?!?! Teams have been doing that Fangio shit to us for 2+ years now. They're living in light boxes and when we run the ball we're leading with our chins and running this damn outside zone crap that A) Doesn't take advantage of our power blockers as well and B) Lets the defense do what it wants to do, which is use speed and move laterally to race us to the sidelines and seal off big gains. It can essentially run Nickel formations and still manage that.

Maybe they're doing more gap running than I realize or maybe I'm just too damn stupid to see the bigger picture of what they're trying to accomplish.

But man - I will never understand why we haven't made teams 'pick your poison' more. When we run, it should absolutely be a gap scheme designed to just maul guys rather than this outside zone crap that just does them a massive favor while not taking advantage of our OL's greatest strengths.

DJ's left nut · 10-24-2022, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorter

Regarding your last large paragraph, Andy has always favored ZB because of the big payoffs it used to yield via cutback + the advantages of boot action for PA.

Then you have the cross screen game that they were wicked with in Philly because of people overflowing to the zone run side.

But when we don't have RBs that can see/make a cutback...

Sorter · 10-24-2022, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just have nothing to add to this:

Some added context to this:
When the Chiefs run OZ/RPO concept from shotgun the RB's shoulders turn to the sideline, CEH has never been a start-and-stop player and by the time he can get to the backside, there's nothing he can do. He couldn't see the lane until it was too late https://t.co/aDAkTkmFFW pic.twitter.com/bDCFKpl76N
— Daniel Harms�� (@InHarmsWay19) September 26, 2022

This is not a team that's going to excel by continuing with the RPO/OZ concepts. They need to build a new plane while they're flying it here. This just isn't working.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I just have nothing to add to this:

Some added context to this:
When the Chiefs run OZ/RPO concept from shotgun the RB's shoulders turn to the sideline, CEH has never been a start-and-stop player and by the time he can get to the backside, there's nothing he can do. He couldn't see the lane until it was too late https://t.co/aDAkTkmFFW pic.twitter.com/bDCFKpl76N
— Daniel Harms�� (@InHarmsWay19) September 26, 2022

This is not a team that's going to excel by continuing with the RPO/OZ concepts. They need to build a new plane while they're flying it here. This just isn't working.

Couple things from this clip:

Chiefs out in 2x2 alignment with 3x1 personnel (TE weak).
Colts in 4 man front with nickel personnel (NB field side), mike walks out a bit to align/wall off #2(Kelce) while still having responsibility for the back. the Boundary EMOLS is in a 9 tech, so you can remove him from people you have to worry about blocking unless he's a freak or your A) read for the RB is ****ed B)Your RB sucks

How the numbers match up:

What this shows is basically our 5 on 3 DL with 1 LB and 1 NCB to deal with (that's why the motion across formation matters, it places a stress on the Mike to honor Kelce as a receiver)
In theory, this is a win. You could even have the #2 field side crack the NB and set up a 1 on 1 with the field side safety or the corner (if everyone is blocked).

What needs to happen from the defensive alignment shown is this(starting from left to right):

-LT needs to help LG on 3 tech then work way up to mike (old school would have been LT cutting the 3tech and LG works up to mike)
-LG blocks 3 tech (see previous sentence for how it used to happen)
-C (uncovered) You get varying thoughts on this but most teach if he's uncovered you help briefly playside before climbing to the second level player (Will in this case)
-RG (HERE'S WHERE THINGS GET SHITTY)
The RG is the cog here. He dictates whether the runner is going to bounce or cut inside. He is supposed to move the 1 tech 3 yards horizontally for the runner to have an ideal view. Doesn't happen every time obviously but thats the goal. What the playside guard on OZ can not do is get ****ing raped.
-RT has the EMLOS and is supposed to carry him enough so the runner has a clear decision of bouncing or cutting.
-#2 WR field side (should crack on the NB or EMLOS although rules have affected this)

So, now lets re post the video DJ linked and watch.

Some added context to this:
When the Chiefs run OZ/RPO concept from shotgun the RB's shoulders turn to the sideline, CEH has never been a start-and-stop player and by the time he can get to the backside, there's nothing he can do. He couldn't see the lane until it was too late https://t.co/aDAkTkmFFW pic.twitter.com/bDCFKpl76N
— Daniel Harms🏈 (@InHarmsWay19) September 26, 2022

Sorter · 10-24-2022, 09:05 PM

Well, there it is.

C makes a lunging attempt to help with the 1 tech as the RG says "Get ****ed, I'm out of here". (which to be fair, that's how most OZ plays pan out). RT doesn't get out in front and the combination of those two almost kills any chance there is of positive yardage.

In an attempt to not seem like a ****ing curmudgeon, the LG and #2 field side receiver do their jobs, demonstrating that at least some folks on this team think running the ball is important.

Now, Clyde Frog sees his read is ****ed from the absence of horizontal flow on the 1 tech.

What does he do, I wonder? He can:

A) Bounce which is ****ed because the the RT didn't get any flow field side
B) Cut inside immediately because he's a professional and a decisive runner that knows what to do when stuff doesn't go to plan
C) Panic and meltdown like a 3 year old who was informed Pumpkin Patches are closed in January.

I know people are going to give the RG shit for not blocking whoever the ****ing colts player is that comes through but if this play flows correctly, he's blocked. He's not slicing playside to make that tackle (especially in nickel).

Sorter · 10-24-2022, 09:11 PM

Here's the sad thing.

****ing nobody is running the ball well (and that's how the league has intentionally/unintentionally designed it).

You may get a couple good games here and there from players (and you'll probably get better per game rushing results in the playoffs because players are overselling the stretch) but you're not going to see a **** ton of rushing yards this year. Or next year.