Better Call Saul

[rico]

As I am sure many of y'all already know, a spinoff of "Breaking Bad" titled "Better Call Saul" will be airing in 2014. This is going to be a prequel to Breaking Bad and will be based on the character of Saul Goodman from "Breaking Bad."

I, for one, will be watching. I'm sure the majority of all of you other "Breaking Bad" fans will be as well. Might as well get the discussion going sooner rather than later.

So... what are your hopes, expectations and/or concerns with the show? Here are some of mine:

Hopes: I hope to see Saul do his thing in the courtroom. I hope to see strong, unique supporting characters. I hope to see Breaking Bad foreshadowing. I hope he has an intriguing paralegal and/or assistant. I hope to see Breaking Bad characters such as Fring, Mike, etc...whoever. I hope the show kicks ass.

Expectations: I don't expect it to be as good as "Breaking Bad" (because nothing else is, really), but I expect it to be good since Vince Gilligan is writing. I somewhat expect it to have an even balance of comedy and drama...since Saul undeniably provides a substantial amount of comedic relief in "Breaking Bad." I expect to see "courtroom Saul." I expect the "Breaking Bad" references and character cameos to be less than what I hope. If it isn't even a fraction as good as "Breaking Bad," I expect it to be better than 95% of everything else on TV, since there is some shitty shit on TV these days.

Concerns: I'd be a liar if I were to say that I didn't think this show has potential of flopping and certainly failing to meet the presumed high expectations of the audience. Don't get me wrong, I think it will be good... but I think it COULD suck if not executed properly. My main concern is Saul ultimately proving himself to be a "little dab will do ya" type of character, which would lead to a show centered around his character not working out. I am hoping that the character of Saul will not be so over-used and constantly over the top, that he becomes annoying to me, thus ruining his character for me altogether... Not saying I think this will be how it goes down...just saying I think there is a CHANCE of this being the case, which prompts me to believe that a strong supporting cast is VITAL in terms of the amount of success/quality this show will accumulate. All in all, I don't think VG will steer us in an unfortunate direction though...I think they'll pull it off.

Thoughts?

DISCUS!!!!

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Dagnabit

Why did they pick the dumpiest restaurant near my shop to film? I can't imagine any scout walking about saying, "this place is IT"!

That's exactly what someone assigned to scout locations would say

[chiefzilla1501]

One-take sequence to open up the episode. Brilliant!

[Gonzo]

Originally Posted by Dagnabit

Why did they pick the dumpiest restaurant near my shop to film? I can't imagine any scout walking about saying, "this place is IT"!

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I take it that used to be a Pizza Hut?

[Sweet Daddy Hate]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

I take it that used to be a Pizza Hut?

Probably. It's been there for several years and prior to "Saul", I never saw much business going on there. Still don't, really.

When they shoot, it takes them a day just get everything set, then the next day the logistics crew shows up with trailers and lighting.

At the last shoot, they had all the windows covered and blacked-out. They also tried to park a trailer in the egress of the business next door on a Friday after I had stopped by to pick up a burger.

I told the dude with the walkie-talkie that, "Saul needs to take his happy ass back to parking school".

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You're giving Chuck too much credit and that really showed in the last episode.
Maybe Chuck originally was trying to save the firm from Jimmy. But then it was Davis & Main, who were fine with Jimmy wheeling and dealing on the bus. And now it's Kim, a bystander. It's pretty amazing that Chuck could almost care less about the firm, but suddenly becomes very interested when Jimmy becomes involved. This is definitely personal.

Maybe Jimmy was going to be slippery no matter what. But I don't think that justifies going really far out of his way to sabotage his brother, let alone Kim.

The firm was about to lose a million dollar client - you think he only cared because Jimmy was involved? Hell, the first thing he did was scold Howard for letting Kim get away. The guy that plays Chuck did a great job of emoting disappointment in Howard when Howard said that she left - he clearly recognizes Kim's talent and potential to be a big-time asset at the firm.

I don't think he was trying to sabotage Kim at all; he was trying to get their client back and that's exactly what you'd expect from an 'of counsel' founding partner for a firm.

**** this - I'm starting a one man squad: Team Chuck. I expect no allies, but someone's gotta protect the guy from you wolves that think he ties his shoes in some manner expressly designed to irritate and undermine Jimmy.

Jimmy does just fine blowing himself out of the water without any intervention from Chuck and he'd have absolutely done it one way or the other. The dude's just slimy. He's done at least 3 things in a season and a half that would have him outright dis-barred. If Chuck were really out to hang him, it wouldn't be hard at all to go to the NM Bar and report him for ethics violations. All Jimmy has done is reinforce Chuck's distrust of him.

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The firm was about to lose a million dollar client - you think he only cared because Jimmy was involved? Hell, the first thing he did was scold Howard for letting Kim get away. The guy that plays Chuck did a great job of emoting disappointment in Howard when Howard said that she left - he clearly recognizes Kim's talent and potential to be a big-time asset at the firm.

I don't think he was trying to sabotage Kim at all; he was trying to get their client back and that's exactly what you'd expect from an 'of counsel' founding partner for a firm.

**** this - I'm starting a one man squad: Team Chuck. I expect no allies, but someone's gotta protect the guy from you wolves that think he ties his shoes in some manner expressly designed to irritate and undermine Jimmy.

Jimmy does just fine blowing himself out of the water without any intervention from Chuck and he'd have absolutely done it one way or the other. The dude's just slimy.

No, actually, I was considering writing a "Believe it or not, I'm defending Chuck" post along those same lines -- that Chuck was totally justified in doing what he did FOR THE FIRM. Does it skewer Jimmy too? Sure. But bottom line is, Chuck is a partner and he's doing what's right for his firm. And he did so not by lying or deceiving, nor did he impeach Kim's character. He simply said, hey, we've got the professional experience she doesn't, and the manpower to pay attention to myriad details (hence Jimmy's revenge with the docs). You should stay with us.

It was a perfectly legit sales job, not a con. I even explained that to my family after we watched it.

[frankotank]

DJ...siberian....answer HONESTLY.

Chuck told Jimmy "I hope you realize if the shoe was on the other foot I'd do the same for you".

do you believe it?

[siberian khatru]

Originally Posted by frankotank

DJ...siberian....answer HONESTLY.

Chuck told Jimmy "I hope you realize if the shoe was on the other foot I'd do the same for you".

do you believe it?

I literally scoffed out loud when he said it.

But I've been thinking about it since, and Jimmy's reaction when he said it, and I'm not sure. If Jimmy were physically incapacitated, would Chuck separate the personal from the professional and nurse him back to health? Except in my interpretation of the character, Chuck also holds familial animus toward Jimmy. So how far does that go? I just don't know.

I still need some more backstory (particularly post-Rebecca) to see just how far Chuck's antipathy toward Jimmy is.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by frankotank

DJ...siberian....answer HONESTLY.

Chuck told Jimmy "I hope you realize if the shoe was on the other foot I'd do the same for you".

do you believe it?

No, of course not.

He has no particular loyalty to Jimmy and I've never argued otherwise. I simply disagree with this narrative that he goes out of his way to sabotage him.

Chuck will always put his firm ahead of Jimmy and frankly he'll put most things ahead of Jimmy. But he won't do that because he actively wants Jimmy to fail - he'll do that because he doesn't really give a shit one way or the other if Jimmy succeeds.

He simply has a very detached relationship with Jimmy and a very jaundiced outlook on him. My point all along has been that both of those things are relatively reasonable outcomes of his shared history with his lifelong screwup of a little brother.

[DJ's left nut]

Though I'll say this - IF Jimmy were to befall some crazy physical malady like Chuck has - real or imagined - I think Chuck would try to help Jimmy in the way that Chuck sees the world.

I do honestly believe that Chuck would spend whatever he needed to spend to try to get Jimmy the care he needed. If the roles were exactly mirrored and Jimmy turned into a loony toon with some kind of psychosomatic illness, I don't think for a minute that Chuck would wait on Jimmy hand and foot - he's not that kind of person. But he'd absolutely pay for people to wait on Jimmy for him.

And again, I don't really judge there. Some people simply lack empathy (there's a pretty good chance that I fall squarely in that group myself) and those people just do not understand what purpose they could possibly serve sitting there doing nothing. Instead they'll go do what they do well and find someone else to do that for them. It's a cold, clinical view of the world but it's also a common one and I don't judge Chuck for having it.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

No, of course not.

He has no particular loyalty to Jimmy and I've never argued otherwise. I simply disagree with this narrative that he goes out of his way to sabotage him.

Chuck will always put his firm ahead of Jimmy and frankly he'll put most things ahead of Jimmy. But he won't do that because he actively wants Jimmy to fail - he'll do that because he doesn't really give a shit one way or the other if Jimmy succeeds.

He simply has a very detached relationship with Jimmy and a very jaundiced outlook on him. My point all along has been that both of those things are relatively reasonable outcomes of his shared history with his lifelong screwup of a little brother.

I'm with you on most of it, but he showed in the first season that he definitely actively wants Jimmy to not be a lawyer. When he got his degree, he would have been a first year, and at that point posed no threat to the company.

But yeah, he'd be a shit partner if he didn't at least coach Howard on how to get the client back.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'm with you on most of it, but he showed in the first season that he definitely actively wants Jimmy to not be a lawyer. When he got his degree, he would have been a first year, and at that point posed no threat to the company.

But yeah, he'd be a shit partner if he didn't at least coach Howard on how to get the client back.

He wants Jimmy not to be a lawyer because he believes the profession is somehow on a pedestal, far above Jimmy's ability to function within the ethical guidelines. He knows what Slippin Jimmy is and a degree from The U of American Samoa won't change that. In fact it may make it worse because it gives Jimmy access and insight into new and exciting ways to be a grifter. JMO

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

I'm with you on most of it, but he showed in the first season that he definitely actively wants Jimmy to not be a lawyer. When he got his degree, he would have been a first year, and at that point posed no threat to the company.

But yeah, he'd be a shit partner if he didn't at least coach Howard on how to get the client back.

Not true.

That little stunt he's about to pull with the documents - that could easily be done by a first year and just as easily get brought back on the firm. In fact, I'd imagine most of the pleadings he'd be responsible for as a first year wouldn't be signed as him, they'd be signed as him 'for the firm' and as such, anything he does could easily come back directly on the firm and in fact, the firm would almost certainly take the bullets well before the first year associate would.

When it doubt, find the deepest pockets. HHM is absolutely the deeper pockets here.

And while he may not have pulled that exact stunt as a first year, he'd have pulled something. The client solicitation thing is the easiest one and perhaps that would've only been met with a tersely worded letter from the Bar. But that's not all the damage he could do; he could easily ensnare his employers.

But again, we're getting back to where I started this whole thing - there is no circumstance whereby Jimmy would've been hired into that firm given his pedigree. You aren't asking that Chuck not interfere with Jimmy - you're asking that Chuck do him favors. Jimmy's not a silk-stocking lawyer and HHM is absolutely a silk-stocking firm. If you're a partner there, you don't want him in your firm and if you're his brother you don't want the resentment that comes with forcing him into your firm over other far more qualified candidates.

He doesn't respect Jimmy, I'll concede. But if Jimmy would simply get out of Chuck's sandbox, Chuck would probably forget he even exists. But by practicing right under Chuck's nose and to some degree expecting favorable treatment from Chuck, he just gets Chuck's dander up.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by raybec 4

He wants Jimmy not to be a lawyer because he believes the profession is somehow on a pedestal, far above Jimmy's ability to function within the ethical guidelines. He knows what Slippin Jimmy is and a degree from The U of American Samoa won't change that. In fact it may make it worse because it gives Jimmy access and insight into new and exciting ways to be a grifter. JMO

Agreed. But if he legitimately didn't care about Jimmy, he could have let him incubate as a first year, and wait until he actually posed a threat to the firm.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Agreed. But if he legitimately didn't care about Jimmy, he could have let him incubate as a first year, and wait until he actually posed a threat to the firm.

If he legitimately didn't care about Jimmy he could simply not hire him, as should've been the case anyway.

And anyone carrying a bar# and doing something as simple as document review poses a threat to a firm from the moment they go on the payroll.