Gillette

[SuperChief]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Allow me to propose a criticism that is about something other than 'too PC.'

While you might applaud the particular aims of these suggested responses [stopping kids from roughhousing, restraining an ogler or a groper] they are STILL patriarchal.

It's not progress to simply replace one set of stereotypes with another.
The 'old' mindset is supposedly that the only people who are harmed by horseplay or ogling are wimps or bitches who don't matter anyway. But this 'new' mindset assumes that people can never derive enjoyment or growth through any of this 'unwelcomed' activity.

But the horseplay and bullying and the ogling and the groping and the remarks, and all that, . . . are still between two individuals who ARE NOT YOU. You are by definition stereotyping and exercising privilege when you step into a situation between two individuals and state 'hey, I'm bigger and stronger than all of you, and I think that your interpersonal reactions should be like xxx'

You have no way of knowing what the inner monologues of the actual participants in the event are, but Gillette call upon you to be a referee anyway. Those who propose this cannot envision anyone in a physical scrap as anything but an aggressor and a terrified recipient, and cannot envision anyone involved in flirting as anything other than a predator and a terrified prey.

Clearly there comes a point where additional evidence accumulates, where a kid is clearly being bested and hurt, or where a woman is clearly receiving emotional damage without the interpersonal skills to handle the moment on her own. And at that point, your tactful intervention might be called for.

But this campaign isn't about being tactful and situationally aware, it's a backlash to underutilized patriarchy demanding that instead that same patriarchy be abused in 'good ways,' in ways that make the critics more comfortable.

You're turning obvious cultural black and whites into grey areas - for what purpose? Why conflate the issue at hand - reinforcing positive cultural norms? Why play devil's advocate on THAT? smh

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by SuperChief

You're turning obvious cultural black and whites into grey areas - for what purpose? Why conflate the issue at hand - reinforcing positive cultural norms? Why play devil's advocate on THAT? smh

Because the 'grey areas' exist regardless of whether they are beneficial to your black and white solution or not.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Because the 'grey areas' exist regardless of whether they are beneficial to your black and white solution or not.

I like your use of the word "solution", FWIW.

[carcosa]

Originally Posted by TinyEvel

Not sure why all the hate for this. Are you saying we as a society should condone bullying or guys grabbing a woman’s ass? That it’s okay to let people keep other people down, or to not consider how, in a meeting, our own assertion to be heard, or right, is more important than letting another person speak?

Is it you disagree with the message? Or the message is valid but shouldn’t be coming from a razor company.

But if Gillette didn’t say it, who would? Sure, female politicians in California, okay. But Gillette as a brand has the right to say this, in my opinion, as a male oriented brand. No less a right than Budweiser can say be a fan of a certain team, or P&G can say that moms should support kid’s sports.

They’re leading by example, saying speak up. And the reactions are proof that it’s a relevant and necessary message. You can choose to buy or not buy their razors, they know that. This takes balls on their behalf, and in my opinion one of the greatest measures of being a man: use your strength to help others.

This is the good take

People who cry about PC culture are boring and way more annoying than the people they complain about ever were

Personally I think woke brands are usually pretty cynical (they're still just trying to turn a profit after all) but there's nothing wrong with the message itself, which is: don't be an asshole to women or anyone more vulnerable than yourself, because it's shitty and what do you even gain from it? I get not wanting to be preached at by razors but the sermon itself is fine

Like, if you want to be a racist sexist bully, go for it, nobody's really stopping you, but don't expect to get any praise or avoid any criticism here in 2019. Sorry snowflakes

[Holladay]

11k vs 111k now. Foot meet mouth.

[Holladay]

Wow Tiny, I thought you would have gotten this.

Yes there is bulling, but on both sides. People in power can do this.

I pride that when my wife would like the jar of pickles opened, I can do that. I am happy to open doors and do things that guys are built for. I also cherish the abilities that women have.

Two different sexes for two different models. Women can bully just as much as men. It's just not in the media. Define "Cougar". Just as bad. All the reports of female teachers taking advantage of young innocent children.

My daughter's biggest bully was a smart ass little girl. They can be the real winches.

Don't preach to me about what being a man or father is suppose to be.

The main reason we are offended is the condescension. That is one of the most personal fouls. Apathy is the worst. That is the killer in PC culture right now. Apathy.

[Why Not?]

Originally Posted by Holladay

Wow Tiny, I thought you would have gotten this.

Yes there is bulling, but on both sides. People in power can do this.

I pride that when my wife would like the jar of pickles opened, I can do that. I am happy to open doors and do things that guys are built for. I also cherish the abilities that women have.

Two different sexes for two different models. Women can bully just as much as men. It's just not in the media. Define "Cougar". Just as bad. All the reports of female teachers taking advantage of young innocent children.

My daughter's biggest bully was a smart ass little girl. They can be the real winches.

Don't preach to me about what being a man or father is suppose to be.

This guy gets it.

[Dr. Yu Weed Tard]

Originally Posted by Holladay

Wow Tiny, I thought you would have gotten this.

Yes there is bulling, but on both sides. People in power can do this.

I pride that when my wife would like the jar of pickles opened, I can do that. I am happy to open doors and do things that guys are built for. I also cherish the abilities that women have.

Two different sexes for two different models. Women can bully just as much as men. It's just not in the media. Define "Cougar". Just as bad. All the reports of female teachers taking advantage of young innocent children.

My daughter's biggest bully was a smart ass little girl. They can be the real winches.

Don't preach to me about what being a man or father is suppose to be.

The main reason we are offended is the condescension. That is one of the most personal fouls. Apathy is the worst. That is the killer in PC culture right now. Apathy.

[TinyEvel]

Originally Posted by Holladay

Wow Tiny, I thought you would have gotten this.

Yes there is bulling, but on both sides. People in power can do this.

I pride that when my wife would like the jar of pickles opened, I can do that. I am happy to open doors and do things that guys are built for. I also cherish the abilities that women have.

Two different sexes for two different models. Women can bully just as much as men. It's just not in the media. Define "Cougar". Just as bad. All the reports of female teachers taking advantage of young innocent children.

My daughter's biggest bully was a smart ass little girl. They can be the real winches.

Don't preach to me about what being a man or father is suppose to be.

The main reason we are offended is the condescension. That is one of the most personal fouls. Apathy is the worst. That is the killer in PC culture right now. Apathy.

Well we both have something in common that my daughter was also bullied by another girl in school. But the amount she suffered at the hands of several boys far, far outweighed that, and was passed off by the teacher as "boys will be boys."

They were specific boys. Individuals. And still a greater number of individual boys never spoke up, to say it's not cool to giggle and smirk every time the teacher says the word come in a sentence. Or not cool to try to take an upskirt pic with your phone in class. Or other more worse things that happened.

The definition of apathy is not caring or not showing emotion. It's either not caring or not speaking if you do. It's indifference or complacency. So I'm not sure what you mean by using apathy to describe PC culture. I think that apathy is harmful is what this message is trying to convey. Trying.

I make ads, I can look at this as a craftsman in this industry and there are a lot of things I would have done differently, made the message more intelligent, more poignant and direct. But I respect the brand for taking the stance. People are talking about it and that's the goal. With that in mind, I chose to offer my opinion while the thread is here, and really I'm on this board to read and talk about the Chiefs. That's what I'd prefer to do.

And I'm not trying to preach to you about what type of man or father you should be, sorry if you took it that way. I said that, in my opinion, one of the greatest measures of a man is using your strength to help others. Be that open a jar of pickles, giving recognition to a subordinate, or stopping bully, no matter who it be.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by TinyEvel

Well we both have something in common that my daughter was also bullied by another girl in school. But the amount she suffered at the hands of several boys far, far outweighed that, and was passed off by the teacher as "boys will be boys."

They were specific boys. Individuals. And still a greater number of individual boys never spoke up, to say it's not cool to giggle and smirk every time the teacher says the word come in a sentence. Or not cool to try to take an upskirt pic with your phone in class. Or other more worse things that happened.

The definition of apathy is not caring or not showing emotion. It's either not caring or not speaking if you do. It's indifference or complacency. So I'm not sure what you mean by using apathy to describe PC culture. I think that apathy is harmful is what this message is trying to convey. Trying.

I make ads, I can look at this as a craftsman in this industry and there are a lot of things I would have done differently, made the message more intelligent, more poignant and direct. But I respect the brand for taking the stance. People are talking about it and that's the goal. With that in mind, I chose to offer my opinion while the thread is here, and really I'm on this board to read and talk about the Chiefs. That's what I'd prefer to do.

And I'm not trying to preach to you about what type of man or father you should be, sorry if you took it that way. I said that, in my opinion, one of the greatest measures of a man is using your strength to help others. Be that open a jar of pickles, giving recognition to a subordinate, or stopping bully, no matter who it be.

Let's not kid ourselves here. This move by Gillette has nothing to do with principles, taking a stance, or any other altruistic motive.

Like every other move made by a profit-based company this move is about money.

Dollar Shave Club and the other home delivery razor companies are eating up Gillette's profits. They are viewed by the younger demos as an outmoded, overpriced brand and their numbers show it.

They needed to find a way to get back into the conversation so they jumped on the latest fad in America:metoo/masculinity is toxic.
And look. They are now on the headlines of all the news outlets, people are talking about them again.

Not altruism. Capitalism. NTTAWWT.

[FringeNC]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Let's not kid ourselves here. This move by Gillette has nothing to do with principles, taking a stance, or any other altruistic motive.

Like every other move made by a profit-based company this move is about money.

Dollar Shave Club and the other home delivery razor companies are eating up Gillette's profits. They are viewed by the younger demos as an outmoded, overpriced brand and their numbers show it.

They needed to find a way to get back into the conversation so they jumped on the latest fad in America:metoo/masculinity is toxic.
And look. They are now on the headlines of all the news outlets, people are talking about them again.

Not altruism. Capitalism. NTTAWWT.

In the divisive times we live in, these firms are going to need to know where their customers stand on these issues, and I don't think right now they've thought things through. I think these are low-level SJWs at work here. You could be right, but I think they made a mistake. Do you think it was really in ESPN's interest to go full-SJW? Seems like they have pulled back a bit.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by FringeNC

In the divisive times we live in, these firms are going to need to know where their customers stand on these issues, and I don't think right now they've thought things through. I think these are low-level SJWs at work here. You could be right, but I think they made a mistake. Do you think it was really in ESPN's interest to go full-SJW? Seems like they have pulled back a bit.

I don't know if they were right or wrong, time will tell. I only know their bottom-line reason for doing it was for their bottom line.

As to espn, I will never understand why they chose to torpedo their customer base and I never will. They, like CNN, went from a once respected news source to...whatever you'd call them now.

[Rain Man]

Wow. The Patriots are terrified of being humiliated at Arrowhead, aren't they?

[cmh6476]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

Wow. The Patriots are terrified of being humiliated at Arrowhead, aren't they?

Best post through page 2 imo

[Indian Chief]

Guys that are douchebags aren't going to stop being douchebags because of a P&G commercial. In addition, the average guy that uses Gillette products isn't a sexual predator and is going to wonder why they are being preached to in a razor commercial.