***NON-POLITICAL COVID-19 Discussion Thread***

[JakeF]

A couple of reminders...

Originally Posted by Bwana

Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.

Originally Posted by Dartgod

People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.

We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.

Thanks!

Click here for the original OP:

Spoiler!

Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.

California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.

“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”

The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.

The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”

Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.

The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.

The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.

A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.

Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.

“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”

It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.

“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”

On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.

“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”

According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.

More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.

But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.

“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”

CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.

Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.

“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by stevieray

Same thing can be said about speeding/tailgating on the highway.

Which way too many people do.

And that's why those behaviors are not legal.

[Lprechaun]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

It is just not your risk alone you realize that right? You may get Covid and are ok but you will be spreading it to 5-10 others that could possibly die from it.

Well that falls in line with how effective the vaccine is doesnt it? If you have it and feel protected than what does it matter if I have it or not?
If the argument begins to show that the vaccine really doesnt do much at all at circumventing it than what benefit did it have?
I'm as much in the camp that we would have seen a drop in cases and deaths rather people got vaccinated or not.

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

And that's why those behaviors are not legal.

Doesn't change the fact that people take that risk.

Every.Single.Day.

For years.

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by stevieray

Doesn't change the fact that people take that risk.

Every.Single.Day.

For years.

Yeah, but is it a good idea to do that? It works out fine until that one time that it doesn't.

I think one thing we all know from life is that different people evaluate and tolerate risk differently. There are people who do things like stand on rooftop ledges that I think are crazy, and there are people who think that me living in a big city is crazy. The question becomes the point at which society decides that personal choice creates too much societal disruption. We make drunk driving illegal because some people think that's fine and most people don't.

Actually, now that I think about it, most dangerous behaviors are legislated to be illegal. A lot of them merely aren't enforced broadly.

The tailgating thing reminds me of a story from my youth. My father used to send me up from Rolla to Jefferson City occasionally to do stuff, and sometimes he'd have me ride with some random guy that he hired. There was one guy who was an absolute moron driving. This was old Highway 63 that was curvy with low visibility, and if this guy couldn't pass, he would tailgate the person ahead of him to an extreme. We're talking a foot off the person's bumper at highway speed. It terrified me, and I told my father that I was not going to ride with that guy again. A year later, he died in a car wreck. While I never heard the details, I'm 100 percent positive that it was him doing something bonehead.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Lprechaun

Well that falls in line with how effective the vaccine is doesnt it? If you have it and feel protected than what does it matter if I have it or not?
If the argument begins to show that the vaccine really doesnt do much at all at circumventing it than what benefit did it have?
I'm as much in the camp that we would have seen a drop in cases and deaths rather people got vaccinated or not.

This is not about the vaccines this about you not thinking Covid is serious enough so you don't care. If we have had a fully approved vaccine that stopped it at 100% you still wouldn't take it because you think Covid is just like the flu.

But in regards to your question if we are talking about the original strain of Covid that the vaccines were designed for, this pandemic would be pretty much over if we didn't have the Delta variant. We saw that in the Spring time when cases\deaths dropped like a rock. But since the Delta variant has 1000x more viral load it is going to penetrate some of the vaccines because they weren't designed for that. They will fix that in the boosters though I imagine.

[Lprechaun]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

This is not about the vaccines this about you not thinking Covid is serious enough so you don't care. If we have had a fully approved vaccine that stopped it at 100% you still wouldn't take it because you think Covid is just like the flu.

But in regards to your question if we are talking about the original strain of Covid that the vaccines were designed for, this pandemic would be pretty much over if we didn't have the Delta variant. We saw that in the Spring time when cases\deaths dropped like a rock. But since the Delta variant has 1000x more viral load it is going to penetrate some of the vaccines because they weren't designed for that. They will fix that in the boosters though I imagine.

When did I ever say it was just like the flu? I've said its serious... for some.
As I've said before. If you believe in the vaccine so much than what does it matter who doesnt take it. In what I can only assume you are thinking is that it's a death wish not to have it than by that logic in a short time all of us will be dead and only vaccinated people will be alive....right?

[Chief Pagan]

Originally Posted by stevieray

Current culture likes to parent each other.

The shame game is in full force.

30-40k die every year from the flu. I guess we accept certain fatalities.

Do what you think is best for you and your family, just like everything else.

If you don't have any social norms, you don't have a society. I think everyone eligible should also get a flu shot.

Once upon a time almost no one wore seat belts or bike helmets or ski helmets.

A combination of shame game (and eventually laws) saved lives and saved society a lot of money not having to take care of people with life long head injuries.

Hurray for the shame game.

If the shame game can save a few out of the thousands of Americans that are needlessly going to die, the even more that are going to eat up expensive medical treatment both in the short term and also the long term with the long haulers, and even cut down a little on the misery of just being home sick for a couple of weeks...

That's sometimes how social norms work.

Of course the 'other side' has a pretty big bullhorn also...

[Rain Man]

Originally Posted by Lprechaun

When did I ever say it was just like the flu? I've said its serious... for some.
As I've said before. If you believe in the vaccine so much than what does it matter who doesnt take it. In what I can only assume you are thinking is that it's a death wish not to have it than by that logic in a short time all of us will be dead and only vaccinated people will be alive....right?

I guess I view it like drunk driving. Other than general humanitarian lip service, I don't really care that a drunk driver kills himself. That's natural selection. But I really don't want him to kill some innocent driver on his way out. Even with a 95 percent vaccine, some people will get it if they're around unvaccinated people.

If the vaccine proves effective enough that innocent people don't die or get seriously ill, I don't really care if some people don't get vaccinated. (Well, as long as they don't end up creating a new variant.)

[tk13]

The real problem with this is people always think of two outcomes, surviving and death. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people who have had their lives forever altered. Having to get kidney transplants, lung scarring, brain damage, etc.

We've already clearly determined that we are generally terrible at risk assessment, but people really miss the boat on this one. We don't have any idea the long term effects of this virus. Hopefully there won't be many, it's possible there won't be. But there's already some pretty good evidence this virus does a number on your organs. I mean that's not surprising, it's a nasty virus. Who knows what that will mean for people's life expectancy or health complications down the road? Maybe nothing, but we literally have no clue. Anyone who says they know the risks doesn't know the risks, because no one really does. It's just a guess like everything else.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by Lprechaun

When did I ever say it was just like the flu? I've said its serious... for some.
As I've said before. If you believe in the vaccine so much than what does it matter who doesnt take it. In what I can only assume you are thinking is that it's a death wish not to have it than by that logic in a short time all of us will be dead and only vaccinated people will be alive....right?

I definitely believe in the vaccines I was one of the first ones to get the Pfizer vax in MO. I know if I got Covid (Delta) I am 99% positive that I won't die or go to the hospital. Without being vaccinated I put my odds at best 50-50 with the Delta variant. I am watching my gf's brother and his wife who are in the early 40's and in very good health on the verge of going to the hospital after getting the Delta variant several days ago. We tried to tell them...

So I just don't want to get it and spread it to my other family members, loved ones or anyone else for that matter. Not complicated.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by tk13

The real problem with this is people always think of two outcomes, surviving and death. There are probably hundreds of thousands of people who have had their lives forever altered. Having to get kidney transplants, lung scarring, brain damage, etc.

We've already clearly determined that we are generally terrible at risk assessment, but people really miss the boat on this one. We don't have any idea the long term effects of this virus. Hopefully there won't be many, it's possible there won't be. But there's already some pretty good evidence this virus does a number on your organs. I mean that's not surprising, it's a nasty virus. Who knows what that will mean for people's life expectancy or health complications down the road? Maybe nothing, but we literally have no clue. Anyone who says they know the risks doesn't know the risks, because no one really does. It's just a guess like everything else.

Yep. 1 1/2 years after Covid started we still don't have much of a clue of what it does to our body or pretty much anything related to it.

Outside of the vaccine there is no other real good treatment for Covid. If you have to go the hospital it is a coin flip at best whether you make it out alive or not.

[Lprechaun]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Yep. 1 1/2 years after Covid started we still don't have much of a clue of what it does to our body or pretty much anything related to it.

Outside of the vaccine there is no other real good treatment for Covid. If you have to go the hospital it is a coin flip at best whether you make it out alive or not.

Same can be said about the vaccine

[suzzer99]

Originally Posted by dirk digler

Rich Eisen was just on CNN now and he got COVID(Delta) even with being vaccinated with Pfizer since February. He infected his 7 yr old who got really sick but he had only cold like symptoms. He was pretty pissed and if I get COVID I will be as well. **** these people that don’t get vaccinated

That's exactly why we'll never be through this until kids can get vaccinated. Vaccinated parents don't want to risk giving it to their kids or exposing their kids - even if there's a tiny tiny chance of the kid getting really sick. Also delta seems to be worse on kids than the previous variants - still vanishingly small chance, but still.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by Lprechaun

As soon as they say I can sue if something happens to me from taking the vaccine i will consider getting it.
Until then I'm not coming anywhere near that vaccine.
I have a responsibility to my family to be able to provide for them.
The risk of the vaccine complications at the moment far outweigh the risk of the virus.
I also dont discourage anyone from taking it if they want. It's a terrible pandemic for some, others are hardly affected.
It affected everyone differently and not just by becoming ill or not.

Congrats that is the stupidest thing I have read today.

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[Swanman]

Originally Posted by stevieray

Doesn't change the fact that people take that risk.

Every.Single.Day.

For years.

Congrats you win the gold medal in the false equivalency Olympics. I expected no less from you

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