Game of Thrones (spoiler-free zone)

[keg in kc]

A few have suggested it, might as well test the waters. The idea is to give people who haven't read the books a safe place to talk about the show.

A few quick ground rules:

• No Spoilers!!!!! for upcoming episodes.
• Larger Song of Ice and Fire discussion should be limited to the other thread although I think a tiny bit of book delving to fill in holes should be okay (example of this would be talking about Catelyn and her treatment of the wolves in the novel, which was alluded to on TV but never really made clear...)
• Everything that happened that week is fair game once an episode airs. So if you don't watch on Sunday night, I'd stay outta here until you do...

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Might it be possible that Ned was just as good as Jaime but just didn't have the same kind of ego or desire to be recognized? That others just didn't know how good he was because he never felt the need to show off? He did mention (to Jaime, I believe it was) that he didn't participate in tournaments and left his fighting for actual war.

Yep. Ned said he didn't do tournaments because he doesn't want his opponents to know what he's got.
Jaime is perhaps the most skilled swordsman in the kingdom but Ned is old north hard core to the bone.
I'd put my money on the wolf.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Hawk

Bronn is such a perfect name for him too. Tyrion is the brains, he needs his Bronn.

Rewatching ep 4, I was prompted to come here and assert that for as great as Dinklage is as Tyrion, Bronn is his perfect sidekick. Glad to see others agree.

"The good king's backed up, clogged from balls to brains."

Oh, and Bronn saying "couldn't hurt to get some of the poison out." THe slyest Howard Stern reference ever?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...20Poison%20Out

Perhaps the most surreal bit of radio ever. Basically an 80 year old man who invented the most powerful woman's marital aid ever [the Sybian], guiding a porn star through like 8 minutes of the most emphatic and noisy pleasure ever by positioning her 'properly on his invention. I listened to it forgetting I had my house windows open, and fears for the esteem of my community when I realized the sound was travelling beyond my walls. Youtube the clip is you dare.

[Aries Walker]

Speaking of Bronn . . .

[kcxiv]

Originally Posted by vailpass

Yep. Ned said he didn't do tournaments because he doesn't want his opponents to know what he's got.
Jaime is perhaps the most skilled swordsman in the kingdom but Ned is old north hard core to the bone.
I'd put my money on the wolf.

ned said, if he fights, its to kill or something then i think left it at that. lol

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

Rewatching ep 4, I was prompted to come here and assert that for as great as Dinklage is as Tyrion, Bronn is his perfect sidekick. Glad to see others agree.

"The good king's backed up, clogged from balls to brains."

Oh, and Bronn saying "couldn't hurt to get some of the poison out." THe slyest Howard Stern reference ever?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...20Poison%20Out

Perhaps the most surreal bit of radio ever. Basically an 80 year old man who invented the most powerful woman's marital aid ever [the Sybian], guiding a porn star through like 8 minutes of the most emphatic and noisy pleasure ever by positioning her 'properly on his invention. I listened to it forgetting I had my house windows open, and fears for the esteem of my community when I realized the sound was travelling beyond my walls. Youtube the clip is you dare.

Did the line come straight from the book? If so, it was written a long time before Raven let her poison out on Howard.

[KcMizzou]

thoughts?

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by KcMizzou

thoughts?

Are you picking up on Theon yet?

[KevB]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Are you picking up on Theon yet?

What means this?

I was sad to see .....someone (are we allowed to talk openly about already aired episodes in this thead?) go tonight. He was just coming into his own IMO.

[KC_Connection]

Yeah, I thought Renly might go down soon. I noticed the actor that was playing him wasn't on the main cast list a while ago, which I found odd (perhaps I shouldn't be looking at that, will try to avoid it in the future). Didn't expect it to be so quick, though, but I guess Stannis' plan worked perfectly.

So what exactly is the "demon monkey" Tyrion going to do with all of that wildfire?

[KC_Connection]

And who is Arya going to ask that Jaqen guy to kill next? I wish she had said Joffrey first.

[Hawk]

Here is the summary i normally post from the other site for this week's episode. It does not contain any spoilers, though it does have a little bit of info from the books so I will go ahead and spoiler tag it given that some people seem to want to avoid all book talk:

Spoiler!

Game of Thrones scorecard, Season 2 Episode 5 Reply

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The cast of Game of Thrones is like the '27 Yankees - just a murderer's row of a lineup. Jorah had a great scene, as did Davos and Stannis. Catelyn and Brienne do solid work. But the Ruth/Gehrig duo is Tyrion and Arya, and they deliver again. And the pacing of the show is such that you are always on the edge of your seat - it's always the bottom of the ninth, and yet they keep ratcheting up the tension, as we go into extras.

The Baratheons


Renly and Catelyn are negotiating an agreement. Robb is to hold all land North of Moat Cailin (in the Neck), and Renly will hold the Iron Throne. Renly insists that Robb pay him nominal fealty, but they will both get what they want. Robb will continue to occupy Tywin, Renly will take King's Landing, and together they will crush the Lannisters.

That's it. It's all over but the crying. That's how monumental a mistake it was for Joffrey to behead Ned Stark. Absent that move, Ned is off to the Night's Watch, Sansa and Arya are soft hostages for the Lannisters, Robb's bannermen are mostly off bringing in the crops - and because of that, it's somewhat unlikely that the Tyrells take the field on behalf of Renly. Mace rules in Highgarden, not Loras nor Margaery.

And in that sequence, Stannis is left to gnaw on his bitterness and irrelevance on Dragonstone. But Stannis has a priestess named Melisandre, who can birth shadow assassins. That's a fairly big deal. Renly is killed, stabbed through the heart by the shadowman, surrounded by his own army. Brienne and Catelyn witness it, but cannot prevent it. Brienne tenderly holds Renly's corpse and agonizes over her failure. Two guardsmen come in, mistakenly think she's crouching over her prey, and attack. She dispatches them without much effort. Catelyn points out that Brienne will be blamed for his death, and executed. Knowing that she won't be held blameless either, she flees with Brienne. Later, Brienne swears allegiance to Catelyn, but also asks to be released when she has an opportunity to take revenge on Stannis. For she knows it was Stannis that sent the creature.

Loras takes Renly's death much harder than does his sister Margaery, Renly's wife. The Tyrells must flee the field now, as most of their army are moving to Stannis' side. In a memorable scene, Baelish asks Margaery if she'd like to be a queen, and she answers "No, I'd like to be the queen."

Meanwhile, Stannis and Davos are discussing the turn of events. Davos is obviously troubled by the morality of the approach, whereas Stannis is results oriented - now that his brother is dead, he'll take his fleet and his armies, roll up the Lannisters in Blackwater Bay, and land his forces right outside the gates of King's Landing. Nevertheless, Davos presses Stannis, stating that the word is going around that Stannis takes his orders from Melisandre. He urges Stannis to leave her behind for the assault. Stannis agrees, but orders Davos to command the fleet in Blackwater Bay.

King's Landing

Cersei and Tyrion are discussing the news of Renly's demise. Cersei is celebrating it, but Tyrion knows that it doesn't really benefit their situation.

Cersei is coming a bit undone. She's drinking, and deliberately balking her brother's attempts to manage things. She's bitter about her daughter Myrcella being wrapped up with a bow and gifted to the princes of Dorne. In all fairness, she herself was not given a choice of husbands, but that's how the game is played.

Tyrion, for his part, has a mind and a heart that work in concert. He genuinely cares for Myrcella, but knows that getting her out of King's Landing is both a safety move for her, and a possible trump card later vis-a-vis the armies of Dorne.

Since Tyrion can't get info from his sister, he turns to his newly-recruited spy, Lancel. You'll recall that Lancel is a Jaime-substitute in Cersei's bed, and that Tyrion called him to heel last week. Tyrion finds out that Joffrey and Cersei have been working with the Pyromancer's Guild to store wildfire. Wildfire is a substance built to mimic dragon breath, and it will melt everything, including metal. Bronn is concerned that wildfire is unstable, and could easily turn out to be bad for the people using it. And oh my, they have a lot of it. 7,800+ pots of the stuff. Tyrion commandeers the production.

As a quick aside, a Targaryen named Aerion Brightflame once unintentionally suicided by drinking wildfire in an attempt to turn himself into a dragon. You can learn more about Aerion by reading the Dunk & Egg stories by GRRM, which are a sort of prequel to AGOT.

A final note on Tyrion - he and Bronn are in the city, and come upon a sidewalk preacher really railing about the product of incest on the throne (Joffrey). The preacher talks about how Joff is controlled by a "twisted demon monkey", which Tyrion is amazed to find out represents him. For all of the good he's trying to do for the people of King's Landing, he is a dwarf, and that is unforgivable. He will be blamed for all ills, regardless of his actual efforts and results (see party politics in America).

The Greyjoys

Theon is struggling with his pride. He is given one ship to raid the Stony Shore (the West coast of Stark Lands) while his sister is given 30 ships to take Deepwood Motte (a city Northwest of Winterfell) Theon's one ship won't even pay him much attention, because he is unproven.

He meets his first mate - Dagmer Cleftjaw - who seems to take an interest in helping Theon. They talk about their orders, and discuss how maybe taking Torrhen's Square (SW of Winterfell) might be preferable to raiding fishing villages. Torrhen's Square is pretty far from the ocean, which means that keeping it will be very difficult, assuming a Stark counterattack. But hmmm...

Harrenhal

Tywin Lannister is meeting with his war council. He is grouchy, because he's been on the losing end of too many battles with Robb Stark. His new cupbearer is Arya. While Tywin is trying to figure out a way to approach a solution, he quizzes Arya about where she's from. She tries to lie (I'm not a Northerner) and is caught. So she lies again (I am a Northerner, but not from Winterfell), this time more credibly, and is believed. Tywin asks her what they say about Robb in the North.

For me, this was the scene of the night, in a night of many good scenes. Mainly because of the acting of Maisie Williams, who plays Arya. Arya starts to talk about Robb (they call him the Young Wolf, they say he rides a dire wolf into battle, etc.). She gets a little bit of a fond smile on her face when she says “they say he can’t be killed”. But when Tywin asks if she believes that, she transforms that fond smile into a stare filled with as cold a menace as a 10 year old can achieve (which is surprisingly a great deal), and says "no my lord - anyone can be killed." And stares at Tywin. Just outstanding.

She is dismissed to get some water for the council, and she runs into Jaqen H'ghar. We last saw Jaqen in a burning wagon, and Arya saved his bacon by handing him an axe. He hasn't forgotten, and although he is currently wearing Lannister
colors (no different than Gendry or Arya, the smith and cupbearer, respectively), he remembers that he owes Arya. Specifically, he owes her 3 deaths that she stole from the Red God. Name any three names, and Jaqen will kill them, and then they'll be even.

Now Arya is young, and she doesn't quite believe Jaqen, and she still has last week's torture scenes fresh on her mind. So she names The Tickler. And lo and behold, the Tickler is found dead shortly thereafter. One down, two to go. Who will she name?

North of the Wall

Commander Mormont, Jon, Sam and company are on the move, heading to the Fist of the First Men. They're looking to meet up with Qhorin Halfhand, who is second-in-command of the Shadow Tower (one of the Westernmost towers along the Wall). Halfhand got his name because he lost all but thumb and forefinger on his right hand in battle. He trained with his left hand, and is still one of the best (if not the best) swordsmen in the Brotherhood.

Qhorin, like Mormont, has come North of the Wall in a concerted effort to find Benjen Stark. He hasn't found Stark, but he did find a LOT of wildlings. The wildlings are very independent, but they all have gathered under Mance Rayder, and they're ready to move South. The Night’s Watch needs to scatter the wildlings and kill Mance. Mance, a former member of the Brotherhood, has been training the wildlings to make war like the Night's Watch, so they can be a real threat. Mance has some sentries that need to be taken out, if the Watch are to take them by surprise. Jon volunteers, and is accepted by Qhorin as a member of the hit squad.

A brief mention of Sam's professorial discourse on the First Men. The First Men preceded the Andals by several thousand years. They were mostly conquered by the Andals, who themselves were conquered by the Targaryens. IIRC, the Starks claim descendancy from the First Men, whereas the other ruling families are of Andal descent. That may not be 100% correct, maybe the Greyjoys are like the Starks? I don't recall. Anyway, the Starks worship the old gods, with their groves of weirwood trees, while the Andals worship the Seven (burned by Stannis and Melisandre on the beach). So when Brienne says "by the old gods and the new", she's talking about the gods of the First Men and the Andals, NOT about the Lord of Light (Melisandre's god).

Qarth

Daenerys and her crew are recovering nicely from their trek through the Red Waste. They are taking their leisure in the gardens of Qarth, as a guest of Xaro Xhoan Daxos, one of the Thirteen (merchants who rule the city). Xaro is incredibly wealthy, and has solid gold statues in his gardens. His easy outward attitude belies an intense ambition, though. Xaro speaks with Daenerys about that ambition. He tells her that he can supply her with money, horses, ships and men, if she will consent to marry him. He lets her know that Robert Baratheon is dead.

Jonah and Daenerys argue about this solution. Jonah points out that Xaro is out for his own good. Jonah gets emotional - he says that Daenerys would be loved as well as respected and feared, that she has a gentle heart and would make a wonderful ruler. He advises that she keep going her own way, and that the allies she needs are already in Westeros. She instructs Jorah to pursue passage to Westeros, but she is clearly unsure of how to proceed.

Ancillary notes from Qarth:

We meet another of the Thirteen - Pyatt Pree. Pree is a Warlock from the House of the Undying.

And yet another mysterious person. A lady in a mask counsels Jorah to protect Daenerys from the lust that her dragons will create.

Daeny's dragons are getting a little more self-sufficient. Good CGI, in my opinion.

Winterfell

Bran is presiding over court at Winterfell while his brother Rickon acts like you'd expect from a youngster whose mother and father haven't been around for ages. A disturbance comes into the court - Torrhen's Square has been taken. There's not a lot of detail, and the court assumes it is a Lannister bannerman who has done it. It isn't a great force, though, so Bran sends 200 men to deal with it.

He later talks with Osha the wildling about the crow dreams (the three-eyed raven). He confesses that he has dreamed that the ocean came to Winterfell, topped the walls, and drowned many people inside - among them Rodrik Cassel.

[Sfeihc]

Every scene has a purpose of taking a story line further. They do such a masterful job of producing this series.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

So what exactly is the "demon monkey" Tyrion going to do with all of that wildfire?

Duh, he is going to drink it. Wine is for pussies.

[petegz28]

Originally Posted by KevB

What means this?

I was sad to see .....someone (are we allowed to talk openly about already aired episodes in this thead?) go tonight. He was just coming into his own IMO.

On Theon's assault on the North.

[vailpass]

Originally Posted by petegz28

Are you picking up on Theon yet?

Originally Posted by petegz28

On Theon's assault on the North.

A man straddles the no spoiler line.