Let's talk Wide Receivers

[Titty Meat]

It's ****ing DEEP. Off the top of my head first round potential guys:

Jalin Hyatt Tenny
Cedric Tillman Tenny
Jonathan Mingo
Quentin Johnston TCU
Jaxon Smith-Njigba Ohio State
Kayshon Boutte LSU
Jordan Addison USC

[kozzman555]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Where did he run a mid-4.5? I've seen this posted a bunch. I posted it in the lounge but his official times (and posted on NFL team websites like Detroit's) is 4.49 in the 40 and 7.15 in the 3-cone. Neither are complete shit for a 6'3" 208 receiver. Actually, pretty damned solid. He's basically the same as CeeDee Lamb and he's doing ok.

When you look at his highlights, do you ever see any separation? Any balls that he doesn't catch against his body? I think Quentin is going to be a bust.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by kozzman555

When you look at his highlights, do you ever see any separation? Any balls that he doesn't catch against his body? I think Quentin is going to be a bust.

Yeah, I do, to both your questions.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Where did he run a mid-4.5? I've seen this posted a bunch. I posted it in the lounge but his official times (and posted on NFL team websites like Detroit's) is 4.49 in the 40 and 7.15 in the 3-cone. Neither are complete shit for a 6'3" 208 receiver. Actually, pretty damned solid. He's basically the same as CeeDee Lamb and he's doing ok.

That's a freakin' Pro Day number, man. Many people consider Pro Day 40's to be around a 10th slower than laser timed combine numbers. So projecting that hand timed 40 to a laser timed 40 like what Flowers ran, yeah it's more realistically a a mid 4.5.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

That's a freakin' Pro Day number, man. Many people consider Pro Day 40's to be around a 10th slower than laser timed combine numbers. So projecting that hand timed 40 to a laser timed 40 like what Flowers ran, yeah it's more realistically a a mid 4.5.

If the pro day was hand timed. Some are laser timed. I'm pretty sure it was hand timed but not 100%. It's probably around his average watching the tape. Sometimes he looks 4.35 and sometimes he looks 4.65. It's close enough. I really don't give two ****s if he's 4.39 or 4.59 in shorts to be honest. I honestly hate the 40 yard dash for just about everything. I'm much more interested in general in the things alot of these guys don't run, the shuttle and the 3-cone. His 3-cone was solid for his size. I like the tape enough to take him in round 1 and I like it more than I like most of the WRs in this class. The only two I'd take over him are JSN and Hyatt. Pretty simple for me.

[kozzman555]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Yeah, I do, to both your questions.

I freely admit to being far less knowledgeable than you, so as an interested layman watching his highlights, there seems to nearly always be a DB on his hip. Outside of one or two highlights, I don't see that separation. If I don't see it in college, why would it be there in the NFL with better caliber corners?

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by kccrow

If the pro day was hand timed. Some are laser timed. I'm pretty sure it was hand timed but not 100%. It's probably around his average watching the tape. Sometimes he looks 4.35 and sometimes he looks 4.65. It's close enough. I really don't give two ****s if he's 4.39 or 4.59 in shorts to be honest. I honestly hate the 40 yard dash for just about everything. I'm much more interested in general in the things alot of these guys don't run, the shuttle and the 3-cone. His 3-cone was solid for his size. I like the tape enough to take him in round 1 and I like it more than I like most of the WRs in this class. The only two I'd take over him are JSN and Hyatt. Pretty simple for me.

I think he's really a early round 2 prospect that may go in round 1 that's intriguing because of his length and fluidity.

But like Steve Smith said, i too have a hard time figuring out what exactly his role is in the NFL.

He's long, but he rarely uses his length. Frustratingly so, even on catches he makes.

He's not thick like a Mingo etc, so he won't be bullying DB's.

He's a fluid athlete for a guy as long as he is and he made his money in YAC. But how many 6-4" YAC guys do you see in the NFL? Are we banking on the idea that he's gonna be the trend breaker after decades of, really, no such guys?

His hands are fine, but not special.

His speed is adequate, but he's no burner.

He's not a high point guy....

And he never really had to display much as a route runner so you have to project there.

So what is it exactly that you hang your hat on with him, that you KNOW, no matter what, he can do this "one thing" exceptionally well that we can for sure make money in that role?

YAC? Ok. I'm just not sure how a 6-4, 4.5 40 YAC guy is gonna work in the NFL. I've never really seen one before.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by kccrow

The only two I'd take over him are JSN and Hyatt. Pretty simple for me.

I'm simply shocked that you have Hyatt so high.

I don't know how. I really don't. I think people want him to be something that he hasn't shown us yet.

How anyone can have Hyatt over Flowers is just beyond me.

Flowers is the most complete WR in this draft IMO, and i understand a lot of people are high on JSN.

If Quentin Johnston had the dog in him that Flowers has, we'd be talking about him completely different.

[kccrow]

I gave you his nearest comp. CeeDee Lamb. Lamb finished 18th in the NFL last year in total YAC. They have nearly identical body types and measurables.

[Mecca]

The only way you can be super high on Hyatt is if you believe you can coach him to achieve his upside because today he's an unpolished 1 trick pony.

The only way you get excited is if you believe you can coach this guy who is 6'1 200lbs with great speed to be a complete receiver, but it's all projection because today he isn't that guy.

He's by far the least polished of the guys listed in the top 5-7 receivers.

[ModSocks]

Hell yeah, Steve Smith is in agreement with me. Steve Smith and Chris Simms are in Camp Detoxing. We see Zay the same exact way.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Hell yeah, Steve Smith is in agreement with me. Steve Smith and Chris Simms are in Camp Detoxing. We see Zay the same exact way.

You have to be really really careful with Chris Simms....Steve Smith also loves Josh Downs how about that one?

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by kccrow

I gave you his nearest comp. CeeDee Lamb. Lamb finished 18th in the NFL last year in total YAC. They have nearly identical body types and measurables.

Nope. Totally disagree.

CeeDee Lamb is close in terms of height and weight (though he's an inch shorter and 10lbs lighter) but their build and game is not similar at all. At all. The build is totally different. Play style very different.

Height/Weight does not make for a comp. Game and playstyle does. If that were the case, CeeDee Lamb compares to Byron Pringle.

CeeDee Lamb isn't/wasn't some skinny legged, long torso, long arm'd dude. Very different builds.

There's no way you can look at CeeDee Lamb's college "tape" and say that's the same guy is Johnston. Nope.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by Mecca

You have to be really really careful with Chris Simms....Steve Smith also loves Josh Downs how about that one?

Honestly havent studied Josh Downs at all aside from maybe once i watched him.

[Mecca]

To be fair Johnston played with Max Duggan who is total balls.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

Honestly havent studied Josh Downs at all aside from maybe once i watched him.

Pull up his Steve Smith breakdown, you'd think he was a lock top 20 pick.