Interesting O-Line Stats

[Pitt Gorilla]

A couple of Chief OL are, apparently, playing well in the passing game.





Other fun stats at the link: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...gs#prwrplayers

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

IDK what you're talking about with that one.

What do you mean? Andy likes vets over rookies, in general. As I said, it's not a hard and fast rule (Kareem Hunt for example), but Andy has never just thrown rookies on the field if he had a solid vet to rely on. And CEH doesn't count, because Andy would've started Damien week 1 if he hadn't opted out. When his choices were CEH, Darrel and Darwin, he made the logical choice.

But he didn't start Hardman last season, just for example.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by OKchiefs

Context matters though. Sure we've been able to run it at times. But it's not a secret we can't run it on 3rd and 1 or at the goalline.

The line is doing about as well as can be expected considering the limited resources spent there and the opt-outs, although I haven't been all that impressed with LDT for a while now so I'm not sure his presence helps all that much.

There are a number of needs going forward, and we don't need a 2003 Chiefs type OL, but if we can just somehow find the resources to turn the IOL into more of a strength I think it makes the offense that much more unstoppable. I was hopeful that the signing of Osemele earlier in the offseason was a sign that they might be pivoting more towards powerblocking types on the inside, but that may just be wishful thinking. An OL that can blow people off the ball in short yardage makes Mahomes and co. even more lethal.

And back to pass blocking, perhaps PFF grades account for this but Mahomes clearly covers for a lot of deficiencies in pass protection with his pocket presence and mobility. Put a less capable QB behind this OL and I think you see their pass protection grades plummet.

And, yet, we've done exactly that. We've also thrown for first downs on 3rd and short. Honestly, our line has done well in both situations, compared to the rest of the NFL.

The Chiefs are #1 in 3rd down conversion percentage. Of course, it helps to have Pat. But, we have Pat.

[mkp785]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Niang was coming off a major injury. It's unlikely he'd have been 100% this season anyway. My conspiracy theory is that Veach and Reid might have encouraged him to take the red-shirt year and get healthy. I'm sure they're monitoring his progress and have him on a workout regimen.

Niang has a OT build for sure. When you look at him and watch him move, he looks like Willie Roaf.

Now I personally think Roaf was the best offensive tackle I ever saw play the game, and I'm not saying Niang=Roaf. I'm just saying he's physically similar. I would imagine that plan is that he could eventually be a plus player outside. I have no doubt he could be a plus player inside even sooner.

Getting a full year to recover his body and (in theory) add on some weight/strength/flexibility will pay major dividends. Are players who opt out even allowed on site? I'm guessing not, so this'll all be up to him to do on his own.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This cannot be understated.

We've had a ton of injuries on the o-line this year. More than most teams. Just look at the Eagles for example. They've been battling o-line injuries and they broke Wentz. Complete turmoil.

Given the circumstances I'd say the coaching staff has done a damn good job.

Absolutely. It's also a myth that there are O-Lines out there simply blowing people off the ball. It may happen occasionally (in Cleveland or Indianapolis), but it's not often, given the size, speed, and strength of most NFL D-Line.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Absolutely. It's also a myth that there are O-Lines out there simply blowing people off the ball. It may happen occasionally (in Cleveland or Indianapolis), but it's not often, given the size, speed, and strength of most NFL D-Line.

Indianapolis has probably the most vaunted offensive line in the league, especially on the interior.

They've given up 12 sacks, good for 2nd in the league but as a TEAM, they average 3.7 yard per carry.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

So I'd like to get better on the interior line in particular is all I'm saying. I don't like Suh pummeling Patrick, and in the long-term view, the fact that the offense was still successful in spite of that is secondary. We're probably entirely good enough to win the SB as is, but I'm concerned about the long term health of the golden goose.

Suh is a freaking stud, so he's going to get his each and every game. Now, if the guards and center were getting beat on a consistent basis by sub-average defensive lineman, there would most certainly be cause for concern.

But Suh and Aaron Donald and guys of that nature are going to get their licks in on whichever QB they're facing each week. Those guys are just freaks of nature.

Just about every position on the Chiefs roster could use an upgrade, which means that Veach and Reid decide which areas are of great importance and which are not.

As we've seen over the past 8 years, Reid just doesn't value interior linemen nearly as much as he values Skill Position players.

[ModSocks]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

What do you mean? Andy likes vets over rookies, in general. As I said, it's not a hard and fast rule (Kareem Hunt for example), but Andy has never just thrown rookies on the field if he had a solid vet to rely on. And CEH doesn't count, because Andy would've started Damien week 1 if he hadn't opted out. When his choices were CEH, Darrel and Darwin, he made the logical choice.

But he didn't start Hardman last season, just for example.

I think Andy likes the BPA, vet or rookie be damned.

2013: Started Eric Fisher, Knile Davis didn't start, but saw action in all 16 games.

2014: Zach Fulton started 16 games as a rookie. Dee Ford didn't start, but was a key rotational player as we had Houston and Hali already. Gaines saw a lot of snaps as a rookie, and De'Anthony Thomas was featured.

2015 Marcus Peters started. Conley started 5 games and saw significant snaps,

2016 Chris Jones started. Tyreek Hill saw significant snaps.

2017 Kareem Hunt.

There's history of him starting rookies, and using rookies as key contributors.

I think it's more of a case by case basis based on ability and understanding of the playbook. Vets clearly have an edge in the latter, but if the rook is talented enough that edge doesn't seem to matter so much.

My summary: I think there's enough evidence to show that he isn't shy about playing young guys.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Indianapolis has probably the most vaunted offensive line in the league, especially on the interior.

They've given up 12 sacks, good for 2nd in the league but as a TEAM, they average 3.7 yard per carry.

Exactly. I shat on the Line for the first half of last season. I really haven't since. Given the injuries the Chiefs have endured this season, they're playing damn well.

Also, as previously noted, it's a complete myth that we can't convert in short-yardage situations. There are clearly times when we DON'T convert (both running AND passing), but there are also times when we DO.

If Chief Fan is complaining that we can't do it EVERY time (or most every time), well, join the club with the rest of the fans in the NFL. It's simply not going to happen.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This cannot be understated.

We've had a ton of injuries on the o-line this year. More than most teams. Just look at the Eagles for example. They've been battling o-line injuries and they broke Wentz. Complete turmoil.

Given the circumstances I'd say the coaching staff has done a damn good job.

This is absolutely true. No doubt.

It indicates to me that offensive line should be a priority moving forward. Just A priority. It's not like I'm saying we're terrible and can't win because our line is so bad.

But Schwartz has back problems now, and those don't typically get better after 30 for big guys. Reiter and Wylie are, I think we can agree, not plus players. LDT? He's probably overpaid for his production level. He's decent; better than Wylie.

I'm really quite pleased with Alegretti thus far. Remmers has been better than I thought he would be.

I'd like to leave Alegretti at LG, and upgrade at C and RG.

I don't think that's crazy talk.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Suh is a freaking stud, so he's going to get his each and every game. Now, if the guards and center were getting beat on a consistent basis by sub-average defensive lineman, there would most certainly be cause for concern.

But Suh and Aaron Donald and guys of that nature are going to get their licks in on whichever QB they're facing each week. Those guys are just freaks of nature.

Just about every position on the Chiefs roster could use an upgrade, which means that Veach and Reid decide which areas are of great importance and which are not.

As we've seen over the past 8 years, Reid just doesn't value interior linemen nearly as much as he values Skill Position players.

Well, I mean, should we have signed Suh and let Chris Jones walk then?

Because Suh looked like a bigger problem than Jones.

I'm being facetious of course.

I agree that Reid doesn't value OL as much as skill position players, and I totally am not arguing that he hasn't been right in that. I'm just saying it might be time this offseason to move OL up the priority list a bit since the skill position spots are in such stellar shape.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

Exactly. I shat on the Line for the first half of last season. I really haven't since. Given the injuries the Chiefs have endured this season, they're playing damn well.

Also, as previously noted, it's a complete myth that we can't convert in short-yardage situations. There are clearly times when we DON'T convert (both running AND passing), but there are also times when we DO.

If Chief Fan is complaining that we can't do it EVERY time (or most every time), well, join the club with the rest of the fans in the NFL. It's simply not going to happen.

The thing is-

the injury replacements have actually been bright spots.

Alegretti has been playing well. Remmers better than expected.

It's the starting center and right guard that are problematic. Let's say "subpar".

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

The thing is-

the injury replacements have actually been bright spots.

Alegretti has been playing well. Remmers better than expected.

It's the starting center and right guard that are problematic. Let's say "subpar".

What is it that you don't like about Reuter?

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla

What is it that you don't like about Reuter?

Well, he's lousy at pass blocking and makes up for it by being even worse at run blocking.

I mean, I don't see how anyone can watch him and think he's good.

Kilgore was a fairly dramatic improvement in run blocking and he's JAG.

Have you ever noticed that we can run a bit on the perimeter, and we can run left inside the tackle/off guard, but can't hardly ever get anything inside right tackle?

I think Reiter and Wylie are about as bad as our LB play.

Neither situation is likely to cost a SB trip this year.

They might, but I doubt it.

But both areas are in need of upgrading I think.

[Pitt Gorilla]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Well, he's lousy at pass blocking and makes up for it by being even worse at run blocking.

I mean, I don't see how anyone can watch him and think he's good.

Kilgore was a fairly dramatic improvement in run blocking and he's JAG.

Have you ever noticed that we can run a bit on the perimeter, and we can run left inside the tackle/off guard, but can't hardly ever get anything inside right tackle?

I think Reiter and Wylie are about as bad as our LB play.

Neither situation is likely to cost a SB trip this year.

They might, but I doubt it.

But both areas are in need of upgrading I think.

Do you have evidence of that? ESPN (and simply watching the games over the past year or so) completely disagree.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Detoxing

I think Andy likes the BPA, vet or rookie be damned.

2013: Started Eric Fisher, Knile Davis didn't start, but saw action in all 16 games.

2014: Zach Fulton started 16 games as a rookie. Dee Ford didn't start, but was a key rotational player as we had Houston and Hali already. Gaines saw a lot of snaps as a rookie, and De'Anthony Thomas was featured.

2015 Marcus Peters started. Conley started 5 games and saw significant snaps,

2016 Chris Jones started. Tyreek Hill saw significant snaps.

2017 Kareem Hunt.

There's history of him starting rookies, and using rookies as key contributors.

I think it's more of a case by case basis based on ability and understanding of the playbook. Vets clearly have an edge in the latter, but if the rook is talented enough that edge doesn't seem to matter so much.

My summary: I think there's enough evidence to show that he isn't shy about playing young guys.

Oh, okay.

Btw, Andy probably had almost nothing to do with Peters and Jones starting. The fact of the matter has always been that he leaves defensive decisions to the DC.

And I didn't say he wouldn't put rookies in a game. I said he doesn't start them very often, unless he doesn't have a better option.