Cardinals 2018 STL Cardinals Thread - Page 269

**BigRedChief** · 02:21 PM

Opening day lineup

Fowler RF
Pham CF
Carpenter 3B
Ozuna LF
Martinez 1B
Molina C
Dejong SS
Wong 2B
Pitcher

Edit:
Matheny fired 07/14/2018

Opening Day Roster

Spoiler!

bdj23 · 11-12-2018, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Start your own Cubs thread, FFS.

This

**BigRedChief** · 11-14-2018, 07:22 AM

USA Today:
Why the Cardinals should sign free agent Bryce Harper

Bryce Harper, a National League MVP at 23, is a free agent at 26, peddling his services in an industry that’s grown to nearly $11 billion in annual revenues. His combination of skills, age and marketing cachet make him an excellent fit for any major league baseball franchise.
Particularly the St. Louis Cardinals.

Harper, a career .279 hitter with 184 home runs, rejected a 10-year, $300 million contract in September from the Washington Nationals.
A look at why Harper -- the top free agent on the open market -- could and should sign with the Cardinals:
On the field

Wherever Harper lands, the big-picture implications will far outweigh a team’s 2019 alignment. As it turns out, Harper fits in St. Louis now and later.

His signing would displace the struggling Dexter Fowler in right field, though it won’t make the $50 million owed Fowler disappear. That’s OK – Fowler could assume a reserve role, reboot his career and take a crack at a starting job in 2020, when Marcell Ozuna likely departs in free agency.
In the meantime, a Harper-Harrison Bader-Ozuna outfield gives the Cardinals a nice balance of power and defense. Ozuna hit 37 homers for the 2017 Miami Marlins, but managed just 23 and a .758 OPS in 2018, due in large part to a right shoulder that required a “cleanup” surgery last month.
Assuming Ozuna is healthy, a Matt Carpenter-Ozuna-Harper pairing near the top of the lineup would be punishing. Harper’s presence and Carpenter’s versatility means the club could deploy young sluggers Jose Martinez and Tyler O’Neill in creative platoons – or deal one of them for depth elsewhere.

Above all, they’d be buying Harper’s lifetime .388 on-base percentage and .900 OPS, sticking it in the middle of the lineup for the next decade-plus and working out the details later.

Off the field
As much as The Cardinal Way and the mythology surrounding it evokes an image of the selfless, noble organization where the whole (milk?) is greater than the sum of its parts, let’s be honest: The Cardinals love their superstars. From Hornsby to Musial to Gibson to Brock, to Ozzie, Pujols and Yadi, a club has stamped its imprint on a vast region of the country thanks to a gaggle of generational talents.

And there’s about to be a significant void.
Yadier Molina, a shoo-in to don the red coat of Cardinal hall of famer and a decent bet for Cooperstown, turns 37 next July, and his contract expires after 2020. While Molina’s still performing at an All-Star level, it’s not realistic to expect such returns when he’s on the doorstep of 40.
Bader is a nice player, but with defense his primary calling card, not the sort around which to build a movement. Their top emerging players are all pitchers – Jack Flaherty, Dakota Hudson, Alex Reyes – with no slam-dunk positional superstars near the top of the minors.

Stepping into this void would also have some appeal for Harper.
It’s long been presumed he’d yearn for the bright lights of one of the coasts or a major market like Chicago. Heck, he idolizes old Yankees, hails from Las Vegas and has a dog named Wrigley.

Yet none of those places provide the clean landing he could stick in St. Louis.

Imagine signing with the Yankees, and possibly displacing Giancarlo Stanton, or trying to gamely share the spotlight with Aaron Judge.
Imagine signing with the Cubs, and possibly being perceived as the guy who forced franchise icon (and Vegas pal) Kris Bryant out of town when he’s eligible for free agency.

Imagine signing with the Dodgers and taking on all the expectations as the star for whom they broke the bank while they treat the rest of the roster like Tampa Bay West.

In St. Louis, he’d have no such concerns, and for a good while be hailed as The Superstar Who Chose Us. That would allay plenty of initial pressure players face when switching teams.
Why they could pull it off

With a franchise value estimated at $1.9 billion and annual revenues approaching $350 million, according to Forbes, the Cardinals certainly have the cash. They also have a decent bit of financial flexibility.
The contracts of Carpenter ($14.75 million), Molina ($20 million) and Fowler and Carlos Martinez ($16.5 million and $11.7 million, respectively) fall off the books each of the next three seasons, leaving only shortstop Paul DeJong’s team-friendly pact as a long-term commitment. If their young pitching continues panning out, that would buy further flexibility in the early years of the deal.

Worth noting: Had Albert Pujols accepted the Cardinals’ reported 10-year, $210 million offer (in 2011 dollars, no less), there’d still be three years remaining on that deal. In that light, Harper’s contract could be viewed as found money, and for a player six years Pujols’ junior at the time of signing.
Will it happen?

Possibly – although long-term perceptions would have to yield to new realities.
For the Cardinals, it’s the notion that it’s imprudent for them to tie up so much payroll - let’s say 12 years, $420 million – in one player. That they lack the financial muscle of the game’s big-market beasts. That they excel at finishing second but rarely winning the player – be it their own talents like Pujols or Jason Heyward or convincing a megawatt star like Stanton to come to town.

For Harper, there are far more unknowns. Despite his occasional dropping of context clues – look, it’s Harper, Bryant and their wives, out on the town! – Harper has truly played this process close to the vest. What we do know is that before he was old enough to drive, he’s been riding shotgun with super agent Scott Boras. Bet on Harper getting exactly what he wants – be it a record-setting contract, a consistent chance to win, a return to Washington, a destination close to home.

The Cardinals can certainly fulfill many of those desires.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...nt/1977355002/

O.city · 11-14-2018, 09:02 AM

I'm holding my breath in anticipation of a second place finish.

Marco Polo · 11-14-2018, 09:13 AM

It would be unbelievable if my two teams would have the premier players in those leagues (Mahomes/Chiefs and Harper/Cardinals).

jd1020 · 11-14-2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm holding my breath in anticipation of a second place finish.

From the reports I've read Harper/Machado aren't in their plans.

duncan_idaho · 11-17-2018, 11:53 AM

Matheny question:

How much stock does this group place in the Matheny Bible study rumors. Can’t recall if I’ve seen it discussed in this thread.

DJ's left nut · 11-17-2018, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Matheny question:

How much stock does this group place in the Matheny Bible study rumors. Can’t recall if I’ve seen it discussed in this thread.

Those are 'rumors'?

Mike Matheny had a bible study. Mike Matheny played favorites. Mike Matheny's bible study had his favorites in it.

So use the transitive property to extrapolate from that what you will. Not sure what else to address as most of this isnt even arguable.

bdj23 · 11-17-2018, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Matheny question:

How much stock does this group place in the Matheny Bible study rumors. Can’t recall if I’ve seen it discussed in this thread.

It's 100% true.

duncan_idaho · 11-17-2018, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Those are 'rumors'?

Mike Matheny had a bible study. Mike Matheny played favorites. Mike Matheny's bible study had his favorites in it.

So use the transitive property to extrapolate from that what you will. Not sure what else to address as most of this isnt even arguable.

Prison Bitch accused me of unfairly attacking Matheny’s character for citing his favoritism towards his bible study group guys as a reason to not hire him.

Just checking.

**BigRedChief** · 11-18-2018, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

Prison Bitch accused me of unfairly attacking Matheny’s character for citing his favoritism towards his bible study group guys as a reason to not hire him.

Just checking.

It was reported by reputable organizations and reporters, Players talked about attending. There is no debate. It happened all the time in the locker room. Within Cardinals owned spaces. Can you imagine a business allowing that to happen? It did.

Then we saw players who attended these bible study classes get chance after chance to play over clearly more talented players. This went on for years. It was a huge problem.

DJ's left nut · 11-18-2018, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It was reported by reputable organizations and reporters, Players talked about attending. There is no debate. It happened all the time in the locker room. Within Cardinals owned spaces. Can you imagine a business allowing that to happen? It did.

Then we saw players who attended these bible study classes get chance after chance to play over clearly more talented players. This went on for years. It was a huge problem.

Strauss first referenced it in his chat sessions and Goold after him. Bernie makes really vague references to it and the chess club now that he's not at the PD.

They don't write articles because those go national but in the chat sessions that pretty quickly vanish into the ether, the beat writers have absolutely referenced it.

This isn't rumor at all. This has been verified.

bdj23 · 11-19-2018, 09:47 AM

What's the big announcement today? And more importantly, how big of a letdown will it be?

DJ's left nut · 11-19-2018, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

What's the big announcement today? And more importantly, how big of a letdown will it be?

It won't be even the slightest bit baseball related. The DeWitt family hasn't been in the business of baseball since 2011.

They're entertainers now. This will be some sort of Ballpark Village related horseshit; a capital improvement project or some idiotic slate of concerts or something. Maybe Ozzie's getting himself a weekly post-game show at a bar down there or something.

It won't have a single thing to do with the baseball team and I'd bet any amount of money on that.

This offseason is going to piss me off so badly.

ChiefsCountry · 11-19-2018, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDj23

What's the big announcement today? And more importantly, how big of a letdown will it be?

Powder Blue jerseys coming back

bdj23 · 11-19-2018, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It won't be even the slightest bit baseball related. The DeWitt family hasn't been in the business of baseball since 2011.

They're entertainers now. This will be some sort of Ballpark Village related horseshit; a capital improvement project or some idiotic slate of concerts or something. Maybe Ozzie's getting himself a weekly post-game show at a bar down there or something.

It won't have a single thing to do with the baseball team and I'd bet any amount of money on that.

This offseason is going to piss me off so badly.

Condo rentals still available!

Sadly, you're 100% right.

01-02-2018, 05:51 PM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3159627 VARSITY	2018 STL Cardinals Thread Opening day lineup Fowler RF Pham CF Carpenter 3B Ozuna LF Martinez 1B Molina C Dejong SS Wong 2B Pitcher Edit: Matheny fired 07/14/2018 Opening Day Roster Spoiler! St. Louis has opted to carry 12 position players and 13 pitchers to begin the new season, with a four-man bench and eight-man bullpen. Outfielders: Dexter Fowler Tommy Pham Marcell Ozuna Infielders: Matt Carpenter Paul DeJong Kolten Wong Catchers: Yadier Molina Francisco Pena Utility: Jose Martinez Greg Garcia Yairo Munoz Jedd Gyrko Starters: Carlos Martinez Michael Wacha Luke Weaver Miles Mikolas Jack Flaherty Relievers: Dominic Leone Tyler Lyons Bud Norris Brett Cecil Sam Tuivailala Matt Bowman Jordan Hicks Mike Mayers On the DL: Adam Wainwright Luke Gregerson Last edited by BigRedChief; 07-17-2018 at 02:21 PM..
Posts: 79,008

11-14-2018, 07:22 AM	#4022
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3159627 VARSITY	USA Today: Why the Cardinals should sign free agent Bryce Harper Bryce Harper, a National League MVP at 23, is a free agent at 26, peddling his services in an industry that’s grown to nearly $11 billion in annual revenues. His combination of skills, age and marketing cachet make him an excellent fit for any major league baseball franchise. Particularly the St. Louis Cardinals. Harper, a career .279 hitter with 184 home runs, rejected a 10-year, $300 million contract in September from the Washington Nationals. A look at why Harper -- the top free agent on the open market -- could and should sign with the Cardinals: On the field Wherever Harper lands, the big-picture implications will far outweigh a team’s 2019 alignment. As it turns out, Harper fits in St. Louis now and later. His signing would displace the struggling Dexter Fowler in right field, though it won’t make the $50 million owed Fowler disappear. That’s OK – Fowler could assume a reserve role, reboot his career and take a crack at a starting job in 2020, when Marcell Ozuna likely departs in free agency. In the meantime, a Harper-Harrison Bader-Ozuna outfield gives the Cardinals a nice balance of power and defense. Ozuna hit 37 homers for the 2017 Miami Marlins, but managed just 23 and a .758 OPS in 2018, due in large part to a right shoulder that required a “cleanup” surgery last month. Assuming Ozuna is healthy, a Matt Carpenter-Ozuna-Harper pairing near the top of the lineup would be punishing. Harper’s presence and Carpenter’s versatility means the club could deploy young sluggers Jose Martinez and Tyler O’Neill in creative platoons – or deal one of them for depth elsewhere. Above all, they’d be buying Harper’s lifetime .388 on-base percentage and .900 OPS, sticking it in the middle of the lineup for the next decade-plus and working out the details later. Off the field As much as The Cardinal Way and the mythology surrounding it evokes an image of the selfless, noble organization where the whole (milk?) is greater than the sum of its parts, let’s be honest: The Cardinals love their superstars. From Hornsby to Musial to Gibson to Brock, to Ozzie, Pujols and Yadi, a club has stamped its imprint on a vast region of the country thanks to a gaggle of generational talents. And there’s about to be a significant void. Yadier Molina, a shoo-in to don the red coat of Cardinal hall of famer and a decent bet for Cooperstown, turns 37 next July, and his contract expires after 2020. While Molina’s still performing at an All-Star level, it’s not realistic to expect such returns when he’s on the doorstep of 40. Bader is a nice player, but with defense his primary calling card, not the sort around which to build a movement. Their top emerging players are all pitchers – Jack Flaherty, Dakota Hudson, Alex Reyes – with no slam-dunk positional superstars near the top of the minors. Stepping into this void would also have some appeal for Harper. It’s long been presumed he’d yearn for the bright lights of one of the coasts or a major market like Chicago. Heck, he idolizes old Yankees, hails from Las Vegas and has a dog named Wrigley. Yet none of those places provide the clean landing he could stick in St. Louis. Imagine signing with the Yankees, and possibly displacing Giancarlo Stanton, or trying to gamely share the spotlight with Aaron Judge. Imagine signing with the Cubs, and possibly being perceived as the guy who forced franchise icon (and Vegas pal) Kris Bryant out of town when he’s eligible for free agency. Imagine signing with the Dodgers and taking on all the expectations as the star for whom they broke the bank while they treat the rest of the roster like Tampa Bay West. In St. Louis, he’d have no such concerns, and for a good while be hailed as The Superstar Who Chose Us. That would allay plenty of initial pressure players face when switching teams. Why they could pull it off With a franchise value estimated at $1.9 billion and annual revenues approaching $350 million, according to Forbes, the Cardinals certainly have the cash. They also have a decent bit of financial flexibility. The contracts of Carpenter ($14.75 million), Molina ($20 million) and Fowler and Carlos Martinez ($16.5 million and $11.7 million, respectively) fall off the books each of the next three seasons, leaving only shortstop Paul DeJong’s team-friendly pact as a long-term commitment. If their young pitching continues panning out, that would buy further flexibility in the early years of the deal. Worth noting: Had Albert Pujols accepted the Cardinals’ reported 10-year, $210 million offer (in 2011 dollars, no less), there’d still be three years remaining on that deal. In that light, Harper’s contract could be viewed as found money, and for a player six years Pujols’ junior at the time of signing. Will it happen? Possibly – although long-term perceptions would have to yield to new realities. For the Cardinals, it’s the notion that it’s imprudent for them to tie up so much payroll - let’s say 12 years, $420 million – in one player. That they lack the financial muscle of the game’s big-market beasts. That they excel at finishing second but rarely winning the player – be it their own talents like Pujols or Jason Heyward or convincing a megawatt star like Stanton to come to town. For Harper, there are far more unknowns. Despite his occasional dropping of context clues – look, it’s Harper, Bryant and their wives, out on the town! – Harper has truly played this process close to the vest. What we do know is that before he was old enough to drive, he’s been riding shotgun with super agent Scott Boras. Bet on Harper getting exactly what he wants – be it a record-setting contract, a consistent chance to win, a return to Washington, a destination close to home. The Cardinals can certainly fulfill many of those desires. https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...nt/1977355002/ __________________ Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. -YODA
Posts: 79,008

11-14-2018, 09:02 AM	#4023
O.city In Search of a Life Join Date: Jul 2009 Casino cash: $2764064	I'm holding my breath in anticipation of a second place finish.
Posts: 81,234

11-14-2018, 09:13 AM	#4024
Marco Polo Veteran Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: 41°59.4′N 87°39.6'W Casino cash: $5818908	It would be unbelievable if my two teams would have the premier players in those leagues (Mahomes/Chiefs and Harper/Cardinals).
Posts: 2,506

11-17-2018, 11:53 AM	#4026
duncan_idaho M-I-Z-Z-O-U Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Kansas City Casino cash: $1770308	Matheny question: How much stock does this group place in the Matheny Bible study rumors. Can’t recall if I’ve seen it discussed in this thread. __________________ "You gotta love livin', cause dying is a pain in the ass." ---- Sinatra
Posts: 21,084

11-19-2018, 09:47 AM	#4032
bdj23 In my youth i pray to keep Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Clown World Casino cash: $2739850	What's the big announcement today? And more importantly, how big of a letdown will it be?
Posts: 15,741