Evaluate the Defense Game #1

[petegz28]

I thought they looked improved from several aspects. Keep in mind this was Jax and not a high-powered offense.

Tackling = Much, MUCH better

Coverage = Tighter. Few plays without a defender right on the WR

Run Defense = Stellar start, let's not get cocky

Pass Defense = Not a ton of pressure today. Missed a huge sack which ended up leading to a TD. Coverage overall was decent. Made a backup look all-world but that happens when a backup comes in mid-game.

Overall it looked like we were more sound fundamentally. Run gaps were getting filled, screens were getting blown up and not a ton of YAC. Hopefully as the season progresses our defense will as well.

Overall grade today: C+

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

No matter what anyone post, DJ- you think the D. sucked yesterday. You are viewing them with the most critical glasses possible and nothing anyone can say will change your mind. The Jags only had 13 points until late in the game when it was over. I will take that all year.

If Clark corals that batted pass for the Pick 6- it would have been an even bigger blowout than it was.

The Jags were never a threat to win against this Defense or Offense- that is the bottom line.

Just leave him to it. He hates the Clark acquisition (compared Veach to Grigson for it, ) and is going to be overly critical of him, fair or not.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

It was mother****ing hot and both Defenses looked like shit. Wouldn't snap take this Week 1 game too hard.

The Colts apologists used the same excuse in the playoff game, Mr. BryanBusby.

Weather conditions are the same for both teams on the same day at the same place.

FAX

[FAX]

Originally Posted by Aspengc8

Made it through the first quarter of A22 film. Defense doesn't look that bad at all. They had a mis-alignment on one of Fournette's larger runs. Pass rush is not bad, Foles wriggled out of a sack on the 3rd and long play, and they went max protect on the bomb to chark and the rush still got to him. Some tackling issues by CB's, but I think they can work out the kinks easily. A lot of the jags passes with the rookie were 3 step and hard to judge pass rush on those. i'll get through the rest of the game tonight.

How do you have access to the All-22, Mr. Aspengc8?

It's not yet available on GamePass ... at least, I can't find it.

FAX

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

FWIW (very little) -- PFF Grades for Sunday on the defense:

Wilson -- 83.9
Breeland -- 77.0
Thornill -- 69.5
Ogbah -- 68.6
Ward -- 65.1
Okafor -- 61.2
Jones -- 61.1
Mathieu -- 60.3
Fuller -- 58.8
Hitchens -- 54.8
Clark -- 54.0

I've said before that I don't think PFF is worth a damn for rank ordering a performance but I think it can be useful for establishing 'tiers'. For instance, I don't know that I can say that Thornhill was a tick better than Ogbah yesterday despite PFFs numbers, but in real time it felt like Thornhill and Ogbah were similarly impactful. That's a fine tier.

Wilson and Breeland were the two guys I thought actually played quite well yesterday and PFF gave them the two highest grades. When you're looking for general impressions, PFF can give you some solid datapoints.

And PFF said that Frank Clark was hot garbage yesterday. Was he the worst player on the defense yesterday? Well no, I don't think I can say that. But was he definitely among the worst players on the defense? Oh yes, yes he was. Against a rummy.

On the offense - a 91.6 for Watkins - yeah, that'll play. G'damn he was good yesterday. And yeah, the interior OL was exactly as bad as it seemed - Wylie, Reiter and LDT with a 54.6 - 51.2 - 50.7 respectively. Yikes - that'll get our cherub killed. You just cannot give them that kind of highway right up the middle. Everything else was about what you'd expect; a poor grade for Hardman, good grade for Mahomes (not elite, which I think we'd all agree with) and generally respectable grades elsewhere on the O.

Good Lord, how is Ward ranked ahead of ANYBODY, much less seemingly half of his teammates on defense?!? PFF is ****ing worthless.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

No matter what anyone post, DJ- you think the D. sucked yesterday. You are viewing them with the most critical glasses possible and nothing anyone can say will change your mind. The Jags only had 13 points until late in the game when it was over. I will take that all year.

If Clark corals that batted pass for the Pick 6- it would have been an even bigger blowout than it was.

The Jags were never a threat to win against this Defense or Offense- that is the bottom line.

One could argue that you are the complete opposite. The bottom line is the bottom line.

A 6th rd rookie in his first NFL game tore our assholes apart. “But wait it was only short passes!” Well yes it was. That’s what Brady does so well and he’s our biggest (and only) competition. So what does that tell you?

The Chiefs offense scored every possession yesterday, but that isn’t sustainable against the best defenses in the league. We didn’t do that against the Broncos, Patriots 2X, Ravens, etc.

I absolutely hate it that Pat has the weight of the world on his shoulders to will this goddamn team to the Super Bowl without seemingly any help from the defense.

Ask Aaron Rodgers what that’s like. It’s happened to him for the last 9 years.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Just leave him to it. He hates the Clark acquisition (compared Veach to Grigson for it, ) and is going to be overly critical of him, fair or not.

Clark sucked yesterday.

I don't have to be 'overly critical' of anything to point out that fact. You can come up with reasons for it if you'd like, but he was bad yesterday.

And those of you who have just ignored anything else this team does because they have Mahomes now so everything must be wine and roses are going to continue to refuse to critically evaluate that decision on its own merits.

Do you truly think Clark did anything yesterday to justify the cost in picks and cap? Was he even the 2nd best DE on his own team yesterday? What did he do at any point to suggest he was an impact player?

You can make an ad hominem out of this if you want, that's fine - but it's on you. You're the one refusing to examine what was in front of you, not me. When he plays well I'll absolutely acknowledge it.

He played like shit yesterday and I said that BEFORE any of the post-mortems came in. He was getting handled 1v1 by 3rd string OTs and TEs. "But the heat!!!!"

Fine - it was hot. But he was bad. If you can't acknowledge that then I don't know what else to say.

[WhiteWhale]

I think if Bob Sutton's defense allowed 5 yards per rush, over 10 yards per pass to the tune of 430 yards total while giving up 5/10 on 3rd down, there would be far less optimism.

That's without throwing in "One of the NFL's worst offenses with a back up 6th round rookie QB."

KC won several games just like this last year. This is going to matter when you face a good offense.

I mean they could hold the Raiders to 250 yards next week and they'd still make me nervous. Grandpa Bob's defenses clowned the ****in' Raiders.

And their back 7 is still TERRIBLE on paper, which was the same problem they had with Grandpa Bob.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Good Lord, how is Ward ranked ahead of ANYBODY, much less seemingly half of his teammates on defense?!? PFF is ****ing worthless.

Yeah, Ward being ahead of Fuller was a strange one to me and one that stood out.

It was interesting (and maybe telling) to hear Mellinger on 810 this morning (hurray! I can listen to sam again now that Pryor is gone) saying that there were problems with communication in the secondary all day. Maybe some of those broken coverages were communication problems?

Still doesn't make them not problems, still doesn't mean they didn't play poorly - but it does mean the improvement could come a little faster. It could also speak to my earlier question as to how Ward got that bad, that fast.

But the first deep pass to Chark sure seemed to be nothing more than Ward getting destroyed. And not by anything clever either.

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Clark sucked yesterday.

I don't have to be 'overly critical' of anything to point out that fact. You can come up with reasons for it if you'd like, but he was bad yesterday.

And those of you who have just ignored anything else this team does because they have Mahomes now so everything must be wine and roses are going to continue to refuse to critically evaluate that decision on its own merits.

Do you truly think Clark did anything yesterday to justify the cost in picks and cap? Was he even the 2nd best DE on his own team yesterday? What did he do at any point to suggest he was an impact player?

You can make an ad hominem out of this if you want, that's fine - but it's on you. You're the one refusing to examine what was in front of you, not me. When he plays well I'll absolutely acknowledge it.

He played like shit yesterday and I said that BEFORE any of the post-mortems came in. He was getting handled 1v1 by 3rd string OTs and TEs. "But the heat!!!!"

Fine - it was hot. But he was bad. If you can't acknowledge that then I don't know what else to say.

Ah, nobody said he was 'good'

Maybe settle the **** down?

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Clark sucked yesterday.

I don't have to be 'overly critical' of anything to point out that fact. You can come up with reasons for it if you'd like, but he was bad yesterday.

And those of you who have just ignored anything else this team does because they have Mahomes now so everything must be wine and roses are going to continue to refuse to critically evaluate that decision on its own merits.

Do you truly think Clark did anything yesterday to justify the cost in picks and cap? Was he even the 2nd best DE on his own team yesterday? What did he do at any point to suggest he was an impact player?

You can make an ad hominem out of this if you want, that's fine - but it's on you. You're the one refusing to examine what was in front of you, not me. When he plays well I'll absolutely acknowledge it.

He played like shit yesterday and I said that BEFORE any of the post-mortems came in. He was getting handled 1v1 by 3rd string OTs and TEs. "But the heat!!!!"

Fine - it was hot. But he was bad. If you can't acknowledge that then I don't know what else to say.

Didn't I say "fair or not?" When did I ever say Clark wasn't bad? I thought he was pretty lousy. Just like the rest of the big guns on defense. Fuller, Mathieu, Hitchens, Jones. All lousy in my opinion. Just seems like you've got a particular hard on for Clark.

Bright side is the cheaper role guys like Breeland, Wilson, and Okafor played well enough that if the guys we're paying (or plan to pay) the big bucks to actually start to play up to their talents, we might not be DOA.

[BryanBusby]

Week 1 takes are always funny as ever.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Clark sucked yesterday.

I don't have to be 'overly critical' of anything to point out that fact. You can come up with reasons for it if you'd like, but he was bad yesterday.

And those of you who have just ignored anything else this team does because they have Mahomes now so everything must be wine and roses are going to continue to refuse to critically evaluate that decision on its own merits.

Do you truly think Clark did anything yesterday to justify the cost in picks and cap? Was he even the 2nd best DE on his own team yesterday? What did he do at any point to suggest he was an impact player?

You can make an ad hominem out of this if you want, that's fine - but it's on you. You're the one refusing to examine what was in front of you, not me. When he plays well I'll absolutely acknowledge it.

He played like shit yesterday and I said that BEFORE any of the post-mortems came in. He was getting handled 1v1 by 3rd string OTs and TEs. "But the heat!!!!"

Fine - it was hot. But he was bad. If you can't acknowledge that then I don't know what else to say.

KC brought in two 'impact' defenders in the off-season, and neither of them made an impact.

I'm not going to over-react here because 'one game', but you didn't notice them unless you were specifically watching for them. They didn't stand out at all. For Clark that's bad, because they had scrubs playing tackle. Life should have been much harder for the QB.

Jones was getting good penetration in the 1st quarter, but after that? Blah.

Back up tackles and a back up QB with Chris Conley as their #1 WR and they shredded our guys. Thank god we have this otherworldly offense. We're gonna need it.

[dirk digler]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

I think if Bob Sutton's defense allowed 5 yards per rush, over 10 yards per pass to the tune of 430 yards total while giving up 5/10 on 3rd down, there would be far less optimism.

That's without throwing in "One of the NFL's worst offenses with a back up 6th round rookie QB."

KC won several games just like this last year. This is going to matter when you face a good offense.

I mean they could hold the Raiders to 250 yards next week and they'd still make me nervous. Grandpa Bob's defenses clowned the ****in' Raiders.

And their back 7 is still TERRIBLE on paper, which was the same problem they had with Grandpa Bob.

Very true but I am willing to give Spags D some time to gel since they only played like 2 possessions total in the preseason. If they are still playing like this by Week 8 I will be very concerned.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

I think if Bob Sutton's defense allowed 5 yards per rush, over 10 yards per pass to the tune of 430 yards total while giving up 5/10 on 3rd down, there would be far less optimism.

That's without throwing in "One of the NFL's worst offenses with a back up 6th round rookie QB."

KC won several games just like this last year. This is going to matter when you face a good offense.

I mean they could hold the Raiders to 250 yards next week and they'd still make me nervous. Grandpa Bob's defenses clowned the ****in' Raiders.

And their back 7 is still TERRIBLE on paper, which was the same problem they had with Grandpa Bob.

Yeah, there's no shit there at all.

Ask any of these folks if they'd be saying any of this is Sutton was back. They KNOW they wouldn't be.

Nobody's saying that this defense is doomed to be the worst in the league again. I'm just saying that they played poorly yesterday and any kind of objective analysis has to come to that conclusion.

Especially if you're willing to ask yourself how you'd approach it if the offense HADN'T stepped up yesterday or if Sutton HADN'T been fired. Anyone that honestly thinks they'd have defended this defense had Sutton still been running it or even if Mahomes had to leave, the offense stalled and the Jags ended up winning 26-20 are just lying to themselves.

FFS, I think this team is going 14-2 and winning the SB. I friggen love the potential of this squad.

But because I watched a pass-rush go nowhere and a run defense give up 5+ YPC, I'm just some angry hater or some other dumb shit.

One can criticize a decision, a play, a player, a unit, a game, a coach, any or ALL of that shit without deciding that this is now a 1-15 team. G'damn people.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

KC brought in two 'impact' defenders in the off-season, and neither of them made an impact.

I'm not going to over-react here because 'one game', but you didn't notice them unless you were specifically watching for them. They didn't stand out at all. For Clark that's bad, because they had scrubs playing tackle. Life should have been much harder for the QB.

Jones was getting good penetration in the 1st quarter, but after that? Blah.

Back up tackles and a back up QB with Chris Conley as their #1 WR and they shredded our guys. Thank god we have this otherworldly offense. We're gonna need it.

I'm at the point where in today's NFL on defense, you've gotta have 11 good solid players. Especially if you have some guys who are gonna make impacts, you can't have holes anywhere.

Teams are too smart now and you just can't trot out Charvarious Ward's.

This front office has gone into 2 straight seasons with shit and ass at CB after trading away a troubled dude that was pretty good at it. If they can't get this figure out, well, IMO, they've had enough rope to hang themselves with on the matter.