THE COUNTDOWN to the NFL TRADE DEADLINE THREAD - Tues. Oct. 29th @ 4:00p Eastern Time

[arrowheadnation]

I figured I would create one location to house all of the breaking news, rumors, pessimism, despair, helplessness, frustration, and of course optimism leading up to the 2019 NFL Trade Deadline on:

Tuesday, October 29th @ 4:00p Eastern Time

3 weeks from today! We all have ideas of what the Chiefs need so I won't go into that, but hopefully this day will come and go with better results than last year for us.

[OrtonsPiercedTaint]

Special team needs fresh out of college boost

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by oldman

I agree with Chris, DJ, and Pugs. We're not "just one player away", we have the roster today to make a serious SB run. If the D can continue to improve, we're OK. We practically gave 7 to GB with the McCoy fumble, had another 7 scored on us by a miracle/elite QB throw, and got torched for another 7 by a play we should have recognized. All that with an assistant HS coach running the offense.
Now if you want to make an upgrade with a 5-7 round pick(s), groovy, but not 1-3.

Race the track, not the drivers.

Stick to your plan. Build your team. Stop being reactive; it's a roadmap to disaster.

I believe O.City has used this analogy in discussing draft picks - the dartboard. Would you trade 2 of your 3 darts to get 2 steps closer to the board? 3 steps? 4?

There's always a calculus involved here and sometimes that answer is yes. The Mahomes trade was trading away 2 darts to stand AT the board and slam the ****ing thing into the bullseye. You make that move.

The Clark trade? That was 2 darts to put one foot over the line.

And anything we do right now may only cost us a single dart, but it's only gonna get your toes over the line in the process. At some point, just keep the damn darts and take your chances with what you have.

We're at that point.

[O.city]

Dj we discussed this a bit last year I think, but I think this season is a perfect example, thus far, of why when you have your chance you need to go for it.

This was supposed to be a SB or bust season, but injuries have just piled up too much. It's so unpredictable.

Now, maybe that's a reason for spreading it out and giving yourself as many chances as you can, but at some point, you've gotta just go for it.

[O.city]

Thing is, the defense has actually done what we all wanted it to do. It's pretty much middle of the pack and improving.

The offense just hasn't held it's end of the bargain.

[arrowheadnation]

Originally Posted by O.city

Dj we discussed this a bit last year I think, but I think this season is a perfect example, thus far, of why when you have your chance you need to go for it.

This was supposed to be a SB or bust season, but injuries have just piled up too much. It's so unpredictable.

Now, maybe that's a reason for spreading it out and giving yourself as many chances as you can, but at some point, you've gotta just go for it.

I've always been in the "go for it" crowd as well....I use the Packers as the #1 reason. They have had a HOF QB every year since the mid 90's and only have 2 Super Bowls to show for it. This tells me you need to strike while the iron is hot.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

Thing is, the defense has actually done what we all wanted it to do. It's pretty much middle of the pack and improving.

The offense just hasn't held it's end of the bargain.

What’s interesting about this is Honey Badger is the only player on defense who is highly paid that is living up to his billing.

The rest are value guys and draft picks. I think we need to do what DJ is suggesting. Try to load up on cheap value players, obtain more draft picks so you have more chances to hit on players and move your defense to a wide range.

With how much injuries play a part, I’d try load up on decent young players. Pretty clear that that plan is better than banking on only a few highly paid players.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

What’s interesting about this is Honey Badger is the only player on defense who is highly paid that is living up to his billing.

The rest are value guys and draft picks. I think we need to do what DJ is suggesting. Try to load up on cheap value players, obtain more draft picks so you have more chances to hit on players and move your defense to a wide range.

With how much injuries play a part, I’d try load up on decent young players. Pretty clear that that plan is better than banking on only a few highly paid players.

It works fine I think in the regular season. Depth is always tested. But in the playoffs, you need your horses to be there and make plays.

My thing now with defense is that teams are just so good at finding your weaknesses (getting a Rb on a LB etc) that you need those dudes that can be difference makers to actually make up for that and be difference makers.

Your Chris Jones and Frank Clarks can be disruptive and cover some of those holes.

The defense is never going to be complete. No team will be. That's why you need difference makers to help with, we just seem to always have those guys hurt or under perform.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Veach has done an excellent job with value moves this year. Hardman, Thornhill, Rankin and Saunders are all on rookie deals until at least the end of 2021. Ward has been a nice corner and Fenton (like Saunders) has shown well in a small sample size.

I would argue that Veach getting literally nothing but Nnandi from the 2018 draft is worse than the major FA splashes.

I like what Veach did this offseason aside from his big signings. Trying to get a bunch of cheap value players like Ogbah, D. Wilson and D. Lee along with the draft is what I’d like to see Veach do. Sure all of them won’t work out, but even having 1 or 2 guys working out for a cheap contract is crucial for us.

It's frustrating, though, to see teams that are winning championships so routinely take that approach. I mean the Patriots are obviously the gold standard for that sort of thing but even the Eagles weren't out there taking wild swings in FA.

The 'value plays' have been clearly the best path to using resources in pursuit of a championship for the better part of a decade. Yet instead of leaning heavily into that, Veach will go out there and take these MASSIVE risks on guys who's contracts make 'upside' impossible. At best they play to their deals but in all likelihood they'll bust. Even Clark, had he played to the previous 3 years of his production, wouldn't have been worth that contract and draft picks. He just wouldn't have been - that's top 5 defender money and a massive pick haul. He was NEVER a top 5 player or anything approaching it.

Veach's problem is that he'll offset these smart, calculated gambles with wild-ass luxury plays (the tunnel vision that I get so frustrated by). And the two sets of decisions seem so irreconcilable that you wonder how - or even IF - the same guy made them.

How can the same guy who traded for Ogbah and Ward have made that Clark trade? How can the guy that spotted an undervalued (though flawed) Wilson on the Cowboys roster have given Hitchens that god-awful contract? Or given Erving his deal when he can see someone like Rankin has value?

There's such a disconnect between the good moves and bad moves that he makes that it almost makes me agree with the folks that think Andy's making the call on these big money signings. Because they simply do not make sense in concert with some of the other deals.

But the bottom line is that Veach has the title and its his burden to bear. And there's something to say for the ol' mixing 1 gallon of ice cream and 1 gallon of shit maxim. He cannot have this many misses on his ledger.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by arrowheadnation

I've always been in the "go for it" crowd as well....I use the Packers as the #1 reason. They have had a HOF QB every year since the mid 90's and only have 2 Super Bowls to show for it. This tells me you need to strike while the iron is hot.

It also shows that winning SB's is just ****ing hard. And random. And lucky.

The Colts had Peyton freaking Manning for a decade plus and won 1.

The Patriots have skewed everyone's mentality to how this thing is or should be. They are the outlier, not the norm and we'll never see that again, anywhere.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Dj we discussed this a bit last year I think, but I think this season is a perfect example, thus far, of why when you have your chance you need to go for it.

This was supposed to be a SB or bust season, but injuries have just piled up too much. It's so unpredictable.

Now, maybe that's a reason for spreading it out and giving yourself as many chances as you can, but at some point, you've gotta just go for it.

I see it as just the opposite.

This season demonstrates exactly WHY it's better to have more bites at the apple than it is to lean into a single attempt.

And fellas - make no mistake - the Chiefs got LUCKY with Mahomes. That could easily have been a season-ender. And if so, what then? Your best laid plans are shot to shit.

So far better to be able to regroup and attack the following season.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

It's frustrating, though, to see teams that are winning championships so routinely take that approach. I mean the Patriots are obviously the gold standard for that sort of thing but even the Eagles weren't out there taking wild swings in FA.

The 'value plays' have been clearly the best path to using resources in pursuit of a championship for the better part of a decade. Yet instead of leaning heavily into that, Veach will go out there and take these MASSIVE risks on guys who's contracts make 'upside' impossible. At best they play to their deals but in all likelihood they'll bust. Even Clark, had he played to the previous 3 years of his production, wouldn't have been worth that contract and draft picks. He just wouldn't have been - that's top 5 defender money and a massive pick haul. He was NEVER a top 5 player or anything approaching it.

Veach's problem is that he'll offset these smart, calculated gambles with wild-ass luxury plays (the tunnel vision that I get so frustrated by). And the two sets of decisions seem so irreconcilable that you wonder how - or even IF - the same guy made them.

How can the same guy who traded for Ogbah and Ward have made that Clark trade? How can the guy that spotted an undervalued (though flawed) Wilson on the Cowboys roster have given Hitchens that god-awful contract? Or given Erving his deal when he can see someone like Rankin has value?

There's such a disconnect between the good moves and bad moves that he makes that it almost makes me agree with the folks that think Andy's making the call on these big money signings. Because they simply do not make sense in concert with some of the other deals.

But the bottom line is that Veach has the title and its his burden to bear. And there's something to say for the ol' mixing 1 gallon of ice cream and 1 gallon of shit maxim. He cannot have this many misses on his ledger.

Look at what happened in Philly when Andy was in charge. Now look at these big moves here.

Kinda see a pattern there.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I see it as just the opposite.

This season demonstrates exactly WHY it's better to have more bites at the apple than it is to lean into a single attempt.

And fellas - make no mistake - the Chiefs got LUCKY with Mahomes. That could easily have been a season-ender. And if so, what then? Your best laid plans are shot to shit.

So far better to be able to regroup and attack the following season.

I was morseo talking about last year but that's not very clear.

But yeah, if Pat is done for a season and you blew your wad, your stuck. Like the Steelers.

If your QB goes down for the year, just call it a day, start prepping for the next draft.

[pugsnotdrugs19]

It’s probably a big ask but if your full arsenal of offensive weapons is healthy come playoff time, they’re good enough to get you back to the title game.

An improving defense (which we’ve been seeing) is good enough to win it, IMO.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

It works fine I think in the regular season. Depth is always tested. But in the playoffs, you need your horses to be there and make plays.

My thing now with defense is that teams are just so good at finding your weaknesses (getting a Rb on a LB etc) that you need those dudes that can be difference makers to actually make up for that and be difference makers.

Your Chris Jones and Frank Clarks can be disruptive and cover some of those holes.

The defense is never going to be complete. No team will be. That's why you need difference makers to help with, we just seem to always have those guys hurt or under perform.

The fact that offenses have gotten so good at attacking your weaknesses is exactly why the stars and scrubs model that Veach seems to favor is so flawed.

If you have a weak point on your defense, opponents WILL exploit it. All the money in the world spent on our D-Line doesn't mean shit when you can barbecue our LBs in coverage pretty routinely. And teams won't do it every play or every drive (it isn't Madden), but you KNOW that when they need it, they'll have it.

Give me 3 above average players over 1 'difference maker' and 2 JAGs every time. Especially on defense.

It is more critical than ever that your defense simply be sound across the board than it is that you have stars on it. Without Clark or Jones last week we saw Ogbah and Okafor play better. Saunders has stepped up his game. Go run with simply decent guys at EVERY spot on the field and you'll be in good shape.

But we're playing 9 on 11 on too many plays given the god-awful condition of this linebacker group. Cannot have that.

[MAHOMO 4 LIFE!]

Slay and Jenkins will not get moved