Chiefs can we please stop talking about time of possession? Please? - Page 4

**Buehler445** · 10-13-2019, 04:10 PM

Everyone is talking about time of possession. That is mind bogglingly stupid. Winning is about offensive and defensive efficiency. Scores and stops. It has nothing at all to do with time. If Mahomes scores in one play every possession that’s really efficient but won’t take up any time. Moreover if we take a 12 minute drive and fumble at the 2, that isn’t going to win any games but by god we’ll win the time of possession.

****ing pussies like Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards talk about time of possession. Winners talk about scores and stops.

eDave · 10-13-2019, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcclone

You should lose posting privileges for a week, for an incredibly stupid football take.

**** YOU. hIS POINT IS VALID. TOP IS ON THE D.

Chris Meck · 10-13-2019, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

You said it here. You care about stops.

Stop focusing on TOP.

FFS dude we won a bunch of TOP games with Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards that we lost.

Do you not understand how the time of possession directly rates to your defensive performance?

Do you not get that it goes hand in hand with giving up nearly 200 yards on the ground and almost a 6 ypc average?

Do you not understand that being unable to stop the run means you can't effectively pass rush either? And so the opposition just marches down the field, eating clock and punching it into the end zone while Patrick and company sit helplessly on the sidelines?

IF this offense is totally healthy and humming, yeah, they can score fast. They're not, and they can't run the ball because their line is shit. Time of possession is a key indicator of just how shitty the defense is playing right now.

WhiteWhale · 10-13-2019, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

It's obvious you have never played the game or if you have it was must have not been past grade school. Not trying to

you here personally either BUT TOP is everything just like controlling the "boards" in basketball. It's about possession of the ball !! And the way you beat guys like Brady,Rogers,Manning,and the greats a la Mahomes is keeping them on the sideline pure and simple. And the way you do that is running the ball to burn the clock and scoring TDs the majority of the time so that it puts pressure on the opponents QB to be perfect in every possession which is almost impossible to do.

No, TOP is TOP in basketball AND football. Has nothing to do with rebounding.

The best team is not always the team that 'holds the ball more'.

KC is getting cleaned out on TOP because they can't stop the run and absolutely refuse to run the ball themselves no matter if it's working or not.

Fix the ACTUAL issues and TOP cleans itself up.

**Buehler445** · 10-13-2019, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

Are you really denying that having more TOP increases your chance of scoring and decreases the chances your opponent has of scoring?

No.

I never made that assertion.

I acknowledge there is a (potentially poor) correlation between TOP and winning.

But that’s a correlation not causation.

The cause of winning is scores and stops.

Are you denying that the number of scores and stops you get drive wins?

TripleThreat · 10-13-2019, 04:39 PM

@OP

Time of possession means a lot more than you think. I understand your way of thinking, well if they scored in 8minutes who cares, when our offense is up, we need to score too wether it be 3 minutes or in 5 minutes etc.

The problem though is when their offense scores after an 8minute drive. We come out and score in 1minute, our defense goes out and they are on the field for another 7minute scoring drive. Half is over, we are down 14-7. Move onto the next half, we get the ball back, we go 3 and out. There team comes out, 4minute drive, no score, we get ball back and we score, 14-14. Our defense has been on the field for 18minutes of the game, theirs 5minutes. Now their offense scores at will because our defense is gassed, and our offense has to switch up because our defense can't get off the field.

TLDR our offense is better than theirs, but our offense is playing vs a refresed, read to go defense in the 4th quarter, where their offense is playing vs a gassed defense.

-King- · 10-13-2019, 04:39 PM

And also no, Herms teams didn't win TOP a lot. But you're drunk so whatever

WhiteWhale · 10-13-2019, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Do you not understand how the time of possession directly rates to your defensive performance?

Do you not get that it goes hand in hand with giving up nearly 200 yards on the ground and almost a 6 ypc average?

Do you not understand that being unable to stop the run means you can't effectively pass rush either? And so the opposition just marches down the field, eating clock and punching it into the end zone while Patrick and company sit helplessly on the sidelines?

IF this offense is totally healthy and humming, yeah, they can score fast. They're not, and they can't run the ball because their line is shit. Time of possession is a key indicator of just how shitty the defense is playing right now.

KC averaged 6 yards per carry.

They ran the ball effectively, Andy CHOSE to pass 80% of the time in spite of that.

Stop making excuses for his contribution to this problem. The offensive playcalling is as big a part of this problem as anything.

Playcalling and defense are the disease. TOP is the fever. Fix it at the source. The TOP issues are a consequence of bad run defense and shitty play calling. Not one, but both.

kcclone · 10-13-2019, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

He's right. TOP is a SYMPTOM of the problem, not THE problem.

Nobody wins games by holding the ball longer. IT's never been a thing. Points win games. Always have.

Drop back passing with no creativity at an 80% rate is not and never has been a path to success in the NFL. It's not the Big 12.

This isn't a causation vs correlation debate. TOP is a short way to say, we suck on defense and can't run the ball.

Both of these things make it REALLY hard to win, and protect your franchise QB.

**Buehler445** · 10-13-2019, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Do you not understand how the time of possession directly rates to your defensive performance?

Do you not get that it goes hand in hand with giving up nearly 200 yards on the ground and almost a 6 ypc average?

Do you not understand that being unable to stop the run means you can't effectively pass rush either? And so the opposition just marches down the field, eating clock and punching it into the end zone while Patrick and company sit helplessly on the sidelines?

IF this offense is totally healthy and humming, yeah, they can score fast. They're not, and they can't run the ball because their line is shit. Time of possession is a key indicator of just how shitty the defense is playing right now.

Those are all things that drive scoring and stops.

One more time

There is Correlation to winning and TOP but not Causation

**DaFace** · 10-13-2019, 04:42 PM

It's nuanced. Obviously you don't it to be completely lopsided, but acting like TOP is some magical stat is pretty silly.

Fun fact: the Chiefs were #26 in the league in TOP last year. There's right where we are this year (though that may not include today).

BWillie · 10-13-2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buehler445

Everyone is talking about time of possession. That is mind bogglingly stupid. Winning is about offensive and defensive efficiency. Scores and stops. It has nothing at all to do with time. If Mahomes scores in one play every possession that’s really efficient but won’t take up any time. Moreover if we take a 12 minute drive and fumble at the 2, that isn’t going to win any games but by god we’ll win the time of possession.

****ing pussies like Squirmin Herman Mother****ing Sack of **** Edwards talk about time of possession. Winners talk about scores and stops.

Amen brother.

**Buehler445** · 10-13-2019, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -King-

And also no, Herms teams didn't win TOP a lot. But you're drunk so whatever

I’m not drunk. I’ve been on the tractor.

And he won TOP on a lot of those games where he ran LJ into the dirt. And we lost a lot of them because we couldn’t score. But by god we went on long drives.

tk13 · 10-13-2019, 04:44 PM

I said it in another thread... the TOP in itself doesn't guarantee a win but it's definitely a sign. It's fairly obvious at this point that other teams want to dominate that statistic simply because it limits the number of drives in a game. It's no different than playing a slow down half court game in basketball against a high flying offense.

If you're going up against the best QB in the world you'd rather him have the ball as little as possible. It's not really rocket science. Mahomes and the offense only had 3 drives in the 2nd half of the game today. If I'm playing Mahomes that's exactly what I want. It limits his opportunities to do damage.

kcclone · 10-13-2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eDave

**** YOU. hIS POINT IS VALID. TOP IS ON THE D.

Defense, both run and pass, but most notably run D. AND lack of an offensive running game. TOP equates to physicality in football.

Those things are HIGHLY correlated to losing in FB.

If you want to win, you need to at least straighten one of those things out (D or running the ball).

It's not rocket science. We're 6-5 in our last 11. Look at the TOP and lack of run game during that span. I'll guarantee you it doesn't look pretty.

The bottom line is that we're not physical and will keep losing to playoff caliber teams (just like most of last year).

**Buehler445** · 10-13-2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace

It's nuanced. Obviously you don't it to be completely lopsided, but acting like TOP is some magical stat is pretty silly.

Fun fact: the Chiefs were #26 in the league in TOP last year. There's right where we are this year (though that may not include today).

It’s just a mind numbingly stupid thing to talk about.

It’s like saying I have a savings account so I’m on my way to being rich.

When in reality it’s a function of revenue vs expenses.

10-13-2019, 04:10 PM
Buehler445 Supporter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Scott City KS Casino cash: $2314734	can we please stop talking about time of possession? Please? Everyone is talking about time of possession. That is mind bogglingly stupid. Winning is about offensive and defensive efficiency. Scores and stops. It has nothing at all to do with time. If Mahomes scores in one play every possession that’s really efficient but won’t take up any time. Moreover if we take a 12 minute drive and fumble at the 2, that isn’t going to win any games but by god we’ll win the time of possession. **ing pussies like Squirmin Herman Mothering Sack of ** Edwards talk about time of possession. Winners talk about scores and stops.
Posts: 56,786

10-13-2019, 04:39 PM	#50
TripleThreat Veteran Join Date: Oct 2013 Casino cash: $5508253	@OP Time of possession means a lot more than you think. I understand your way of thinking, well if they scored in 8minutes who cares, when our offense is up, we need to score too wether it be 3 minutes or in 5 minutes etc. The problem though is when their offense scores after an 8minute drive. We come out and score in 1minute, our defense goes out and they are on the field for another 7minute scoring drive. Half is over, we are down 14-7. Move onto the next half, we get the ball back, we go 3 and out. There team comes out, 4minute drive, no score, we get ball back and we score, 14-14. Our defense has been on the field for 18minutes of the game, theirs 5minutes. Now their offense scores at will because our defense is gassed, and our offense has to switch up because our defense can't get off the field. TLDR our offense is better than theirs, but our offense is playing vs a refresed, read to go defense in the 4th quarter, where their offense is playing vs a gassed defense.
Posts: 2,725	1 0

10-13-2019, 04:39 PM	#51
-King- ▓▓▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▓▓ Join Date: Jan 2009 Casino cash: $2485743	And also no, Herms teams didn't win TOP a lot. But you're drunk so whatever
Posts: 63,877

10-13-2019, 04:42 PM	#55
DaFace Kind of a mod Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Donkey Land Casino cash: $2026899	It's nuanced. Obviously you don't it to be completely lopsided, but acting like TOP is some magical stat is pretty silly. Fun fact: the Chiefs were #26 in the league in TOP last year. There's right where we are this year (though that may not include today).
Posts: 51,772

10-13-2019, 04:44 PM	#58
tk13 ... Join Date: Nov 2001 Casino cash: $1982500	I said it in another thread... the TOP in itself doesn't guarantee a win but it's definitely a sign. It's fairly obvious at this point that other teams want to dominate that statistic simply because it limits the number of drives in a game. It's no different than playing a slow down half court game in basketball against a high flying offense. If you're going up against the best QB in the world you'd rather him have the ball as little as possible. It's not really rocket science. Mahomes and the offense only had 3 drives in the 2nd half of the game today. If I'm playing Mahomes that's exactly what I want. It limits his opportunities to do damage.
Posts: 54,946