Jaguars open to trading Ramsey this offseason.

[O.city]

https://twitter.com/nfl_dovkleiman/s...764196358?s=21

Well there’s one of the Raiders first rounders

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Uh....no.

My old man has made me a John Wayne fan and one of my favorite John Wayne movies is Rio Bravo. There's an exchange in there after Ricky Nelson's character (Colorado) walks away from a fight. A guy says something like "he's not like the usual kid with a guy, I wonder if he's as good as they say he is..."

The Duke does Duke stuff and responds "I'd say he is. I'd say he's so good he doesn't feel he has to prove it..."

Ramsey's shit is insecurity, IMO. And it's stupid because he IS that good. But what the **** benefit is there in running his mouth? No, he absolutely doesn't have to be like that. He's good enough that he doesn't have to prove it. Haden pre-injury was like that. Peterson was like that. There are a lot of elite corners that were like that - but Ramsey adheres to the Revis Island school of CB play.

I'm just not interested in adding that to this mix. Doug Marrone is taking a lot of bullets for this nonsense but truth be told, I don't think there's a thing he can do to bring that team to heel - there are just too many volatile personalities.

The counterpoint is that Peters is still every bit the shitheel he's ever been in LA but it's contained because they're winning. The problem is that he's still walking a tightrope there, IMO, and could melt-down at any time. Moreover, he's on a clock; he has a 2-3 year shelf life there as well, just as Ramsey would have here.

I'd probably give up for Ramsey what the Rams gave up for Peters and do so knowing full well that there's a risk the whole thing could blow up on us and that we can't extend him (we don't to be there when that bomb goes off). Those 2 are very similar situations. But let's also remember that his 5th year option will cost about $14 million so when we talk about 'cheap' years - that 5th year isn't really that cheap. It's a tick below market, but not a ton. So if you're asking me to give up more than a 2nd for that....hard pass.

Ok. Again, I get it. I agree.

If it's as bad as it seems from the outside, they'll move him for something really cheap. Twitter will explode similarly to the Peters debacle, people will realize twitter isn't real life and we'll move on.

I'd take him for 2 years, then let him be someone else's problem. He's got a terrible attitude and I don't think those types of things really change.

But we need a hired gun for 2 years.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by ChiefBlueCFC

The Jaguars are willing to keep Bortles but are willing to trade Ramsey? Haha okay I mean thats why that franchise has been a dumpster fire for years and years.

The Jags take a $16 million hit in dead money if they dump Bortles and they guaranteed part of his 2019 salary. They don't want to keep him, but like the Chiefs with Berry - it's gonna sting a bit to do otherwise.

Now if I'm the Jags, I'd still consider it and for the same reasons. They can clear about $10 million if they June 1 tag him because they would still lose about $10 million in non-guaranteed 2019 salary. But that team's tight against the cap for the next year or two and are going to have to blow it up soon thereafter.

I'm not sure what kind of QB they can bring in that would fit under the cap either way. They'd have to throw a pick Chicago's way for someone like Daniel. Foles is gonna cost a bit (for some bizarre reason). Fitzpatrick is just a less mobile Bortles. They're just kinda ****ed here with this Bortles situation.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Jags take a $16 million hit in dead money if they dump Bortles and they guaranteed part of his 2019 salary. They don't want to keep him, but like the Chiefs with Berry - it's gonna sting a bit to do otherwise.

Now if I'm the Jags, I'd still consider it and for the same reasons. They can clear about $10 million if they June 1 tag him because they would still lose about $10 million in non-guaranteed 2019 salary. But that team's tight against the cap for the next year or two and are going to have to blow it up soon thereafter.

I'm not sure what kind of QB they can bring in that would fit under the cap either way. They'd have to throw a pick Chicago's way for someone like Daniel. Foles is gonna cost a bit (for some bizarre reason). Fitzpatrick is just a less mobile Bortles. They're just kinda ****ed here with this Bortles situation.

What the hell happened with that defense? Did they just have too many alphas and no one in there to calm shit down and make guys play right?

Like, there's way to much individual talent to be that bad, right?

[mcaj22]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Jags take a $16 million hit in dead money if they dump Bortles and they guaranteed part of his 2019 salary. They don't want to keep him, but like the Chiefs with Berry - it's gonna sting a bit to do otherwise.

Now if I'm the Jags, I'd still consider it and for the same reasons. They can clear about $10 million if they June 1 tag him because they would still lose about $10 million in non-guaranteed 2019 salary. But that team's tight against the cap for the next year or two and are going to have to blow it up soon thereafter.

I'm not sure what kind of QB they can bring in that would fit under the cap either way. They'd have to throw a pick Chicago's way for someone like Daniel. Foles is gonna cost a bit (for some bizarre reason). Fitzpatrick is just a less mobile Bortles. They're just kinda ****ed here with this Bortles situation.

Joe Flacco, come on down!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

What the hell happened with that defense? Did they just have too many alphas and no one in there to calm shit down and make guys play right?

Like, there's way to much individual talent to be that bad, right?

I guess.

I think many also overrated them based on a single playoff win. Nobody gives a shit about Buffalo, but the Pitt win got them some undeserved cache, IMO. People came into this season acting like they were a 13 win team last year - no. They won 10 games. That's a nice year but not exceptional and they did it despite Bortles - that's a huge concern (see the 2010 Chiefs). You can't keep winning around your quarterback in this league.

In the 5 years prior to last year, they averaged barely 3 wins/season with a high water mark of 5. This is an organization that had one kinda decent season after a half-decade of being one of the 2 or 3 worst organizations in football and started strutting around like they'd arrived.

The short answer is that they're just not as good as they thought they were.

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

The Jags take a $16 million hit in dead money if they dump Bortles and they guaranteed part of his 2019 salary. They don't want to keep him, but like the Chiefs with Berry - it's gonna sting a bit to do otherwise.

Now if I'm the Jags, I'd still consider it and for the same reasons. They can clear about $10 million if they June 1 tag him because they would still lose about $10 million in non-guaranteed 2019 salary. But that team's tight against the cap for the next year or two and are going to have to blow it up soon thereafter.

I'm not sure what kind of QB they can bring in that would fit under the cap either way. They'd have to throw a pick Chicago's way for someone like Daniel. Foles is gonna cost a bit (for some bizarre reason). Fitzpatrick is just a less mobile Bortles. They're just kinda ****ed here with this Bortles situation.

The Jags should be packaging a mid rounder in a salary purge to a team that will never be able to spend 100 mil in cap space (Hello Oakland).

Would dump Dareus and Barry Church and trade off Ramsey for a team dying to overpay.

With carryover and appropriate moves, it would put them at 25m in space for 2019 and nearly 60m in 2020. That wpuld put them out of cap hell.

Let Kessler suck it up next season while you draft some pieces on Offense and take Tua in 2020.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

The Jags should be packaging a mid rounder in a salary purge to a team that will never be able to spend 100 mil in cap space (Hello Oakland).

Would dump Dareus and Barry Church and trade off Ramsey for a team dying to overpay.

With carryover and appropriate moves, it would put them at 25m in space for 2019 and nearly 60m in 2020. That wpuld put them out of cap hell.

Let Kessler suck it up next season while you draft some pieces on Offense and take Tua in 2020.

Oh no question - there's a way out. Just not within this window they thought they saw.

They looked at this defense with Campbell and Jackson as expensive FAs, Ramsey, Jack on rookie deals allowing them to pay for Smith and Bouye. They have a 2-3 year window with this defense but it absolutely required they hit on a replacement for Bortles or Bortles look more like the 2015 version (with fewer turnovers due to experience). They gambled on Bortles and lost; it will cost them this window.

You're right - time to tear it down and start over. Maybe try to put some actual offensive weapons on the field. There's a tepid defense to be made for Bortles right now and it centers on the fact that he really has nobody to throw to over there. Paying Moncreif like a fringe #1 doesn't mean he is and Westbrook just isn't there yet.

It's funny though - they're mirror images to the Chiefs in a lot of ways. The Chiefs just chose to put their resources into offense during an offensive era. The Jags appear to have committed to a flawed strategy; they picked the wrong time to build this team. 8 years ago they might have had a contender on their hands but I just don't see a path to a championship with that model these days.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Oh no question - there's a way out. Just not within this window they thought they saw.

They looked at this defense with Campbell and Jackson as expensive FAs, Ramsey, Jack on rookie deals allowing them to pay for Smith and Bouye. They have a 2-3 year window with this defense but it absolutely required they hit on a replacement for Bortles or Bortles look more like the 2015 version (with fewer turnovers due to experience). They gambled on Bortles and lost; it will cost them this window.

You're right - time to tear it down and start over. Maybe try to put some actual offensive weapons on the field. There's a tepid defense to be made for Bortles right now and it centers on the fact that he really has nobody to throw to over there. Paying Moncreif like a fringe #1 doesn't mean he is and Westbrook just isn't there yet.

It's funny though - they're mirror images to the Chiefs in a lot of ways. The Chiefs just chose to put their resources into offense during an offensive era. The Jags appear to have committed to a flawed strategy; they picked the wrong time to build this team. 8 years ago they might have had a contender on their hands but I just don't see a path to a championship with that model these days.

You just have to be so good defensively for so long, and have to keep everyone together. With injuries, the cap and the fact that playing defensive football is always going to lead to close games which brings in the bounce of the ball the wrong way beating you in to play.

Just look back at the last couple years of Chiefs football. They had good solid defenses and could run the ball but they just couldn't put teams away. You're always going to be playing close games and if you get behind, you're toast.

[BryanBusby]

The biggest issue in Jacksonville is that the coach seems like a giant dickhead and nobody wants to play for a guy like that.

He wore himself thin in Buffalo because of it and is now doing it in Jacksonville. The Jags need a new identity top to bottom.

[BigRedChief]

These ain’t choir boys. And it seems corners are especially prone to arrogance and self-centered asshole actions.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

These ain’t choir boys. And it seems corners are especially prone to arrogance and self-centered asshole actions.

That's fine.

But Jalen Ramsey is a team leader on a team that has imploded as memorably as any team in recent memory. That absolutely counts for something.

[RunKC]

This tweet didn’t age well. pic.twitter.com/4liA2qJU1n

— Buffalo Bills (@buffalobills) November 25, 2018

[O.city]

Maybe they'll cut Dareus though. I'd like to bring him in. LOL.

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by O.city

Maybe they'll cut Dareus though. I'd like to bring him in. LOL.

They absolutely have to make some cuts next seasom, and he will be a prime one with 0 dead cap.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

They absolutely have to make some cuts next seasom, and he will be a prime one with 0 dead cap.

Oh he's def getting cut.

I'd be leery to sign a DL with his background though.