Cardinals ***Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread*** - Page 31

**BigRedChief** · 10:46 AM

2022 Opening Day Lineup

Spoiler!

2022 Opening Day roster

Spoiler!

For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006.

Spoiler!

Miles · 07-20-2022, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Polo

Just read that the Nats want Corbin involved with any Soto trade. That sets the table up for me to unfortunately get my hopes up and disappointed because that request just made a potential Soto trade far more realistic on the Cardinals side. This would require far less trade capital that would allow the team to still acquire another pitcher.

That would still require spending money but I like the idea as well. I know Corbin has been rough the past two seasons but maybe there is some hope he could plug one of the many holes in the pitching depth after a change of scenery and no longer being on a team that has no interest in competing this year.

jd1020 · 07-20-2022, 03:59 PM

If they do indeed insist on Corbin being in the deal it probably eliminates the Cardinals because there's still going to be a considerable package of prospects going to the Nationals. And it would probably be without an extension because the Cardinals would have to double the contract offer they wouldnt even give to Pujols.

Don't see the Cardinals doing that.

Probably eliminates another team that could offer arguably the best package of prospects for just Soto in the Padres.

Yankees going to make it happen and let Judge walk.

Jewish Rabbi · 07-20-2022, 05:02 PM

Who gets it done from the Yankees? Volpe and Jasson? Neither one has looked particularly good this year.

jd1020 · 07-20-2022, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Who gets it done from the Yankees? Volpe and Jasson? Neither one has looked particularly good this year.

Define not looking good.

Both players are underage for their leagues and hitting 22 and 36 points above average for their league. Volpe is only striking out 19% and has an above .200 ISO. I would say he's doing fine.

DJ's left nut · 07-20-2022, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jewish Rabbi

Who gets it done from the Yankees? Volpe and Jasson? Neither one has looked particularly good this year.

That's the question, isn't it?

Volpe just looks like a nice player; classic Yankee Hype prospect, like literally dozens before him.

I have no doubt he's a big leaguer, probably even a pretty good one - but I don't see a superstar here. And if, as is being suggested, he's not going to stick at SS - his bat is pretty average at 3b. I don't question him as a top 25ish prospect but I can't talk myself into seeing him as a top 5-8 guy as most lists have him.

Dominguez is truly remarkable as a physical specimen and raw clay but raw is really the operative term here. He's incredibly young but while that speaks to his ability to continue to develop, it also does make me ask if a dude that built, that young, just maxed early and doesn't have anywhere else to go. His approach really needs to take a step forward or his ceiling is Adolis Garcia (and I have little/no confidence in Garcia's staying power; flash but little substance).

Peraza to me looks like a glove first player but he does have some intriguing tools here and there. A 15HR/25 SB guy w/ a .775 OPS is a borderline All Star.

Anybody else in the top 100 from the Yankees system is just Yankee bias. I'm not buying it.

Torres would be somewhat intriguing given his youth and relatively recent dominance (last couple years notwithstanding).

If they could get a window with Torres and work on more palatable extension (seemingly unlikely, but a possibility), Dominguez, Volpe and Peraza? Maybe that's enough? It's a TON of infielders, though. They'll want a pitcher in there with an emphasis on upside over proximity, so maybe Yoendrys Gomez?

And man, at SOME point the Yankees would ask themselves about their organizational depth, wouldn't they? They can't just send stop-gaps like Donaldson out there at 3b forever. I guess DJLM and IKF can hold down 2b and SS respectively but they'd have next to nothing left on the farm.

To get a Soto deal, I think you'd have to have Soto call the shot. Soto would have to simply say he's unwilling to discuss an extension with anyone but the Yankees and put his thumb on the scale. In that event the Yankees could get it done with a more palatable package.

But hell, maybe I'm just completely off on Volpe, he IS a legit difference maker as a prospect and if the Nationals believe to be the case - yeah, there's a possibility of building a deal around him regardless of the circumstance surrounding it.

raybec 4 · 07-20-2022, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

That's the question, isn't it?

Volpe just looks like a nice player; classic Yankee Hype prospect, like literally dozens before him.

I have no doubt he's a big leaguer, probably even a pretty good one - but I don't see a superstar here. And if, as is being suggested, he's not going to stick at SS - his bat is pretty average at 3b. I don't question him as a top 25ish prospect but I can't talk myself into seeing him as a top 5-8 guy as most lists have him.

Dominguez is truly remarkable as a physical specimen and raw clay but raw is really the operative term here. He's incredibly young but while that speaks to his ability to continue to develop, it also does make me ask if a dude that built, that young, just maxed early and doesn't have anywhere else to go. His approach really needs to take a step forward or his ceiling is Adolis Garcia (and I have little/no confidence in Garcia's staying power; flash but little substance).

Peraza to me looks like a glove first player but he does have some intriguing tools here and there. A 15HR/25 SB guy w/ a .775 OPS is a borderline All Star.

Anybody else in the top 100 from the Yankees system is just Yankee bias. I'm not buying it.

Torres would be somewhat intriguing given his youth and relatively recent dominance (last couple years notwithstanding).

If they could get a window with Torres and work on more palatable extension (seemingly unlikely, but a possibility), Dominguez, Volpe and Peraza? Maybe that's enough? It's a TON of infielders, though. They'll want a pitcher in there with an emphasis on upside over proximity, so maybe Yoendrys Gomez?

And man, at SOME point the Yankees would ask themselves about their organizational depth, wouldn't they? They can't just send stop-gaps like Donaldson out there at 3b forever. I guess DJLM and IKF can hold down 2b and SS respectively but they'd have next to nothing left on the farm.

To get a Soto deal, I think you'd have to have Soto call the shot. Soto would have to simply say he's unwilling to discuss an extension with anyone but the Yankees and put his thumb on the scale.

Soto would have to really want to be a Yankee in order to say he wouldn't talk extension with anyone else. There are several clubs with the cash and ability to win that could give him the same extensions.

I just don't think the Cardinals are truly a player as long as DeWitt and Mo keep putting 2 million people in the stands. The TV money will be there but until people stop spending money, they don't really need to be more competitive.

DJ's left nut · 07-20-2022, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raybec 4

Soto would have to really want to be a Yankee in order to say he wouldn't talk extension with anyone else. There are several clubs with the cash and ability to win that could give him the same extensions.

I just don't think the Cardinals are truly a player as long as DeWitt and Mo keep putting 2 million people in the stands. The TV money will be there but until people stop spending money, they don't really need to be more competitive.

Alternatively the Nationals scouting department disagrees with me and thinks Volpe can be a 25-30 HR guy who sticks at SS, brings a polished approach and can push an .870+ OPS and bat 3rd for them. In that case, Dominguez, Peraza and Volpe would be awfully appealing to them. Especially if the Yankees take on Corbin. The Yankees can keep Torres and still maintain some youth on their IF.

If they don't pursue Judge then let Chapman, Britton and Gallo walk (and they will) it would free up 40+ million to go after Trae Turner.

NY has $100 million coming off the books this off-season. They'll be able to spend $80 million before they hit the luxury tax threshold. Corbin would eat up about $25 million of that leaving them with $55 million before they hit the threshold?

They can make all that work.

Rams Fan · 07-20-2022, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Alternatively the Nationals scouting department disagrees with me and thinks Volpe can be a 25-30 HR guy who sticks at SS, brings a polished approach and can push an .870+ OPS and bat 3rd for them. In that case, Dominguez, Peraza and Volpe would be awfully appealing to them. Especially if the Yankees take on Corbin. The Yankees can keep Torres and still maintain some youth on their IF.

If they don't pursue Judge then let Chapman, Britton and Gallo walk (and they will) it would free up 40+ million to go after Trae Turner.

NY has $100 million coming off the books this off-season. They'll be able to spend $80 million before they hit the luxury tax threshold. Corbin would eat up about $25 million of that leaving them with $55 million before they hit the threshold?

They can make all that work.

I wonder how close Cashman's ass is on the hot seat, which would force him to make a move, given the expectations of the fanbase and ownership and how they've done nothing notable in over a decade.

DJ's left nut · 07-20-2022, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I wonder how close Cashman's ass is on the hot seat, which would force him to make a move, given the expectations of the fanbase and ownership and how they've done nothing notable in over a decade.

And I watch that team and an convinced they're set up to get mowed down in the post-season again.

There are still too many hackers in that lineup. Rizzo's resurgence helps them a ton, but IKF, Donaldson, Gallo, Gonzalez, Stanton, Trevino - none of them get on base with any regularity and they take too many uncompetitive ABs. Torres seems really close to finding his superstar form again but it always seems like he can either be a disciplined hitter OR a powerful hitter - not both. And when he's tried to be disciplined, it just hasn't stuck.

People say "well the Yankees don't need Juan Soto..." and I just don't know that I agree. He's exactly the kind of player they could really use to balance out some of their free swingers.

Because they're not pitching their way to a championship with Montgomery, Cortes and Taillon behind Cole. And Severino's shoulder is sore again and so I think you have to just count on him breaking down soon enough.

They've gotta hit game in, game out - and that approach doesn't lend itself to consistent production in the post-season.

Rams Fan · 07-20-2022, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And I watch that team and an convinced they're set up to get mowed down in the post-season again.

There are still too many hackers in that lineup. Rizzo's resurgence helps them a ton, but IKF, Donaldson, Gallo, Gonzalez, Stanton, Trevino - none of them get on base with any regularity and they take too many uncompetitive ABs. Torres seems really close to finding his superstar form again but it always seems like he can either be a disciplined hitter OR a powerful hitter - not both. And when he's tried to be disciplined, it just hasn't stuck.

People say "well the Yankees don't need Juan Soto..." and I just don't know that I agree. He's exactly the kind of player they could really use to balance out some of their free swingers.

Because they're not pitching their way to a championship with Montgomery, Cortes and Taillon behind Cole. And Severino's shoulder is sore again and so I think you have to just count on him breaking down soon enough.

They've gotta hit game in, game out - and that approach doesn't lend itself to consistent production in the post-season.

I think trading for Soto might be a genius long-term play move given that he's younger than Judge and I think should age better than him given his frame. At some point, Judge will just take on full time DH duty.

DJ's left nut · 07-20-2022, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I think trading for Soto might be a genius long-term play move given that he's younger than Judge and I think should age better than him given his frame. At some point, Judge will just take on full time DH duty.

There literally isn't a single team in baseball HISTORY that wouldn't be made substantially better by trading for Juan Soto.

Of course it's a genius move if they can get it done.

The only thing that can stop Soto is some lingering lower body injury given how powerful his base is. Or I guess a back injury.

Nobody is without risk and goofy shit like lis franc injuries can destroy a hitter and happen with nothing more than a funny step rounding a bag. But man, Soto is an incredible bet to make.

Rams Fan · 07-20-2022, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There literally isn't a single team in baseball HISTORY that wouldn't be made substantially better by trading for Juan Soto.

Of course it's a genius move if they can get it done.

The only thing that can stop Soto is some lingering lower body injury given how powerful his base is. Or I guess a back injury.

Nobody is without risk and goofy shit like lis franc injuries can destroy a hitter and happen with nothing more than a funny step rounding a bag. But man, Soto is an incredible bet to make.

I'm curious if we'll see contracts like Correa's contract be the norm (shorter term but mega $$$) with the opportunity for players to make more guaranteed in a year or 2 while still in their prime. Obviously, that would only be something we'd see with younger players who make their debut at/before 20 (Soto, Harper, Gurrero, Tatis Jr.) as opposed to players who make their debuts from like 22-23 who opt for longer contracts (Arenado) for more pay certainty.

raybec 4 · 07-20-2022, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

There literally isn't a single team in baseball HISTORY that wouldn't be made substantially better by trading for Juan Soto.

Of course it's a genius move if they can get it done.

The only thing that can stop Soto is some lingering lower body injury given how powerful his base is. Or I guess a back injury.

Nobody is without risk and goofy shit like lis franc injuries can destroy a hitter and happen with nothing more than a funny step rounding a bag. But man, Soto is an incredible bet to make.

I honestly don't think any team that is set up to be competitive right now could go wrong with a Soto trade. It really bothers me that our guy wants to be just good enough but not great.

DJ's left nut · 07-20-2022, 07:18 PM

So I found one OF that MAYBE isn't better and it's a weird one.

1995 Cleveland Indians: Manny -- Loftin -- Belle

Belle was at his absolute beast mode best; OPS+ of 177, 50 bombs, 52 doubles, .401 OBP. A true monster. Manny was a baby but put up a .402 OBP, .960 OPS and 31 bombs of his own. Kenny Loftin played GG caliber defense, stole 54 bases and got on base at a .362 clip at the top of the order.

And when I think "well DH; AL had one in '95" I'm not entirely wrong. Yes, Juan Soto would've been un upgrade. But they had Jim Thome and his .996 OPS or a 24 yr old Brian Giles to go with Eddie Murray and his .891 w/ 21 bombs. Or a 26 yr old Jeromy Burnitz.

Man - I wonder why that team doesn't get more consideration among the all-time great lineups? Vizquel at SS, Baerga at 2b, Sorrento at 1b. So many quality players that they couldn't find room for Giles or Jeromy Burnitz.

Rams Fan · 07-20-2022, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Man - I wonder why that team doesn't get more consideration among the all-time great lineups? Vizquel at SS, Baerga at 2b, Sorrento at 1b. So many quality players that they couldn't find room for Giles or Jeromy Burnitz.

Because of 2 reasons:

1. They didn’t win a ring despite multiple appearances.
2. 2 teams(Blue Jays, Yankees) also dominated the AL and won multiple rings.

03-19-2022, 07:50 AM
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $3149627 VARSITY	*Official 2022 STL Cardinals Thread* 2022 Opening Day Lineup Spoiler! #stlcards on opening day: Carlson 9 Goldschmidt 3 O’Neill 7 Arenado 5 Pujols DH DeJong 6 Molina 2 Bader 8 Edman 4 Wainwright 1 — Jeff Jones (@jmjones) April 7, 2022 2022 Opening Day roster Spoiler! Pitchers: Adam Wainwright, Miles Mikolas, Steven Matz, Dakota Hudson. Relievers: Jordan Hicks, Drew VerHagen, Jake Woodford, Giovanny Gallegos, Ryan Helsey, A. Pallante, Genesis Cabrera, TJ McFarland, Nick Wittgren, Kodi Whitley, Aaron Brooks. Catchers: Yadier Molina, Andrew Knizner. Infielders: Paul Goldschmidt, Nolan Arenado, Tommy Edman, Paul DeJong, Albert Pujols, Edmundo Sosa Outfielders: Tyler O’Neill, Harrison Bader, Dylan Carlson, Corey Dickerson, Lars Nootbaar. On the injured list are Jack Flaherty and Alex Reyes For the new Cardinal fans that joined the Planet since last year, here are some of the historical threads going back to 2006. Spoiler! 2021 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=337124 2020 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=329273 2019 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=320239 2018 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 2012 Thread https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=254619 etc. All the way back to 2006 WS https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=312812 Last edited by BigRedChief; 04-07-2022 at 10:46 AM..
Posts: 79,009

07-20-2022, 03:59 PM	#452
jd1020 In Search of a Life Join Date: Nov 2010 Casino cash: $7742645	If they do indeed insist on Corbin being in the deal it probably eliminates the Cardinals because there's still going to be a considerable package of prospects going to the Nationals. And it would probably be without an extension because the Cardinals would have to double the contract offer they wouldnt even give to Pujols. Don't see the Cardinals doing that. Probably eliminates another team that could offer arguably the best package of prospects for just Soto in the Padres. Yankees going to make it happen and let Judge walk.
Posts: 24,322

07-20-2022, 05:02 PM	#453
Jewish Rabbi What's up braj? Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Placencia, Belize Casino cash: $2128320	Who gets it done from the Yankees? Volpe and Jasson? Neither one has looked particularly good this year.
Posts: 15,554

07-20-2022, 07:18 PM	#464
DJ's left nut Sauntering Vaguely Downwards Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbia, Mo Casino cash: $3009099	So I found one OF that MAYBE isn't better and it's a weird one. 1995 Cleveland Indians: Manny -- Loftin -- Belle Belle was at his absolute beast mode best; OPS+ of 177, 50 bombs, 52 doubles, .401 OBP. A true monster. Manny was a baby but put up a .402 OBP, .960 OPS and 31 bombs of his own. Kenny Loftin played GG caliber defense, stole 54 bases and got on base at a .362 clip at the top of the order. And when I think "well DH; AL had one in '95" I'm not entirely wrong. Yes, Juan Soto would've been un upgrade. But they had Jim Thome and his .996 OPS or a 24 yr old Brian Giles to go with Eddie Murray and his .891 w/ 21 bombs. Or a 26 yr old Jeromy Burnitz. Man - I wonder why that team doesn't get more consideration among the all-time great lineups? Vizquel at SS, Baerga at 2b, Sorrento at 1b. So many quality players that they couldn't find room for Giles or Jeromy Burnitz. __________________ "If there's a god, he's laughing at us.....and our football team..." "When you look at something through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
Posts: 60,354	1 0