Let's talk Defensive Line

[Couch-Potato]

Went through a bunch of threads to identify all of our interests across the defensive line, is this all of them? Who else should be added to the list? Removed from the list? Should anyone be moved up or down on the draft target list?

FA Targets
-DE Yannick Ngakoue, IND
-DT Da’ron Payne, WAS
-DT Poona Ford, SEA
-DE Jadaveon Clowney, CLV
-DT Kalen Saunders, KC
-DT Greg Gains, LAR
-DT Armon Watts, CHI
-DE Ardon Key, JAX
-DE Clean Ferril, LVR
-DE Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, HOU
-DT Chris Wormley, PIT
-DT Maurice Hurst, SF
-DT Andrew Billings, CIN

Vet Trade Targets
-DE Brian Burns, CAR
-DE Chase Young, WAS
-DE Carl Granderson, New Orleans
-DE Za'Darius Smith, Minnesota
-DE D.J. Wonnum, Minnesota

1st Rd Targets
-DT Byran Breese,
-DE Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
-DE BJ Ojulari, LSU
-DE Keion White, Georgia Tech
-DE Derick Hall, Auburn
-DE Isahiah Foskey, ND
-DE Nolan Smith, Georgia
-DL Tuli Tuipulotu, USC
-DE Andre Carter, Army

2nd Rd Targets
-DT Siaki Ika, BU
-DE Will McDonald IV, Iowa St.
-DL Calijah Kancey, Pitt
-DE Zach Harrison, Ohio State
-DE Anudike-Uzomah, Kansas State
-DT Mazi Smith, Michigan

3rd Rd Targets
-DT Gervon Dexter, Florida
-NT Keanu Benton, Wisconsin
-DE Adetomiwa Adebawore, Northwestern
-DL Byron Young, Tennessee
-DT Zack Pickens, South Carolina
-DL Mike Morris, Michigan
-DE Dylan Horton, TCU

4th Rd Targets
-DT Byron Young, Alabama
-DE Viliami Fehoko, San Jose St
-DE Thomas Incoom, Central Michigan
-DL Yaya Diabi, Louisville
-DE Habakkuk Baldonado, Pitt

5th-7th Rd Targets
-DE Isaiah McGuire, Missouri
-DE Caleb Murphy, Ferris St
-DE Derek Parish, Houston
-DT Dante Stills, West Virginia
-NT Elijah Simmons, Tennessee

[Direckshun]

Some DL thoughts on the Combine:

* Zach Harrison of Ohio State did not participate... in case you're wondering if he's worried about being projected as stiff. His arm length of 36"!?!?! is insane.

* The Chiefs can tender Tershawn Wharton... but if they don't, Ade Ade may be available early day 3? Or even Jalen Redmond.

* I can't say I know enough about Jalen Redmond, but he looked fantastic at the Combine. He's got great athleticism for a DT. He's on the board if Wharton is off the roster.

* Keondre Coburn is probably not a Chief anymore, with sub-32" arms.

* Moro Ojomo sure looks like Tarzan, but I think he's going to play like Jane. His tape is pretty good, but he did not look very solid in the drills despite being the most physically gifted DT running them in my non-professional estimation.

* I like Bresee's tape, but he didn't look super great in the drills.

* I'm surprised by Keeanu Benton's nimble-ness. Solidly a 2nd rounder to me. Great run stuffer with some upside to do more than that. He's a day one starter next to Chris Jones.

* I do not think Will McDonald or Nolan Smith are going to fall to 31. But if they do, they are foundational pieces who complement Karlaftis and would solidify our bookends for a decade. They are at the top of my board.

* Edge guys we haven't talked a lot about who I think the Chiefs will sniff out later in the draft: YaYa Diaby, Tyler Lacy.

* The 10-yard get off was phenomenal for YaYa -- 1.56 is otherwordly. Guy may sneak into the 2nd day.

* The 10-yard get off for Ade Ade was also fantastic, and I think we may be sleeping on Jalen Redmond. 1.71 at 291 pounds is fantastic, and again, he looked so fluid in the drills.

* Isaiah McGuire is not super physically gifted, but his arms are almost 34" long, his size checks all the Spags boxes, and he had a 1.72 get off, which is more than enough. I think he's a starter down the line, but he doesn't have the flashiness of the other options. If he's available in the 4th he'd be near or at the top of my board.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

One thing you COULD do with Kancey is play him at DE on early downs and short yardage,and then move him inside next to Jones on passing downs.

It's not the worst idea in the world.

It works with Danna and he's not near the physical specimen that Kancey is. It's far from being the worst idea. I think it's actually a GOOD idea.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

That’s my thought with him. I think you’d use him like Mike Danna is used, except he’s more gifted than Danna.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Some DL thoughts on the Combine:

* Zach Harrison of Ohio State did not participate... in case you're wondering if he's worried about being projected as stiff. His arm length of 36"!?!?! is insane.

* The Chiefs can tender Tershawn Wharton... but if they don't, Ade Ade may be available early day 3? Or even Jalen Redmond.

* I can't say I know enough about Jalen Redmond, but he looked fantastic at the Combine. He's got great athleticism for a DT. He's on the board if Wharton is off the roster.

* Keondre Coburn is probably not a Chief anymore, with sub-32" arms.

* Moro Ojomo sure looks like Tarzan, but I think he's going to play like Jane. His tape is pretty good, but he did not look very solid in the drills despite being the most physically gifted DT running them in my non-professional estimation.

* I like Bresee's tape, but he didn't look super great in the drills.

* I'm surprised by Keeanu Benton's nimble-ness. Solidly a 2nd rounder to me. Great run stuffer with some upside to do more than that. He's a day one starter next to Chris Jones.

* I do not think Will McDonald or Nolan Smith are going to fall to 31. But if they do, they are foundational pieces who complement Karlaftis and would solidify our bookends for a decade. They are at the top of my board.

* Edge guys we haven't talked a lot about who I think the Chiefs will sniff out later in the draft: YaYa Diaby, Tyler Lacy.

* The 10-yard get off was phenomenal for YaYa -- 1.56 is otherwordly. Guy may sneak into the 2nd day.

* The 10-yard get off for Ade Ade was also fantastic, and I think we may be sleeping on Jalen Redmond. 1.71 at 291 pounds is fantastic, and again, he looked so fluid in the drills.

* Isaiah McGuire is not super physically gifted, but his arms are almost 34" long, his size checks all the Spags boxes, and he had a 1.72 get off, which is more than enough. I think he's a starter down the line, but he doesn't have the flashiness of the other options. If he's available in the 4th he'd be near or at the top of my board.

I think Zach Harrison really hurt himself by not doing drills. He underperformed his entire college career and a good testing would have helped him. I think MCGuire will be gone by the 4th. I wouldn't be shocked to see him go in the 2nd. He's got the right physical attributes and pretty decent production in the SEC.

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Some DL thoughts on the Combine:

* Zach Harrison of Ohio State did not participate... in case you're wondering if he's worried about being projected as stiff. His arm length of 36"!?!?! is insane.

* The Chiefs can tender Tershawn Wharton... but if they don't, Ade Ade may be available early day 3? Or even Jalen Redmond.

* I can't say I know enough about Jalen Redmond, but he looked fantastic at the Combine. He's got great athleticism for a DT. He's on the board if Wharton is off the roster.

* Keondre Coburn is probably not a Chief anymore, with sub-32" arms.

* Moro Ojomo sure looks like Tarzan, but I think he's going to play like Jane. His tape is pretty good, but he did not look very solid in the drills despite being the most physically gifted DT running them in my non-professional estimation.

* I like Bresee's tape, but he didn't look super great in the drills.

* I'm surprised by Keeanu Benton's nimble-ness. Solidly a 2nd rounder to me. Great run stuffer with some upside to do more than that. He's a day one starter next to Chris Jones.

* I do not think Will McDonald or Nolan Smith are going to fall to 31. But if they do, they are foundational pieces who complement Karlaftis and would solidify our bookends for a decade. They are at the top of my board.

* Edge guys we haven't talked a lot about who I think the Chiefs will sniff out later in the draft: YaYa Diaby, Tyler Lacy.

* The 10-yard get off was phenomenal for YaYa -- 1.56 is otherwordly. Guy may sneak into the 2nd day.

* The 10-yard get off for Ade Ade was also fantastic, and I think we may be sleeping on Jalen Redmond. 1.71 at 291 pounds is fantastic, and again, he looked so fluid in the drills.

* Isaiah McGuire is not super physically gifted, but his arms are almost 34" long, his size checks all the Spags boxes, and he had a 1.72 get off, which is more than enough. I think he's a starter down the line, but he doesn't have the flashiness of the other options. If he's available in the 4th he'd be near or at the top of my board.

I like YaYa Diaby in round 2 if the Chiefs don't have a DE they like at 31. May need to move up a bit for him.

[kozzman555]

Is it just me or is anyone else not super impressed with McGuires tape? He always looks reaaaallly slow coming off the snap. Like he is always starting a step behind where he should be on passing downs.

[htismaqe]

This NKC native wants to play for his hometown team, apparently.

https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/2023...hMINRq7gGRfkSI

[Chiefnj2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlT0-LL_hEg

A little short, but the kid is quick. I have no idea what round he's projected.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Some DL thoughts on the Combine:

* Zach Harrison of Ohio State did not participate... in case you're wondering if he's worried about being projected as stiff. His arm length of 36"!?!?! is insane.

* The Chiefs can tender Tershawn Wharton... but if they don't, Ade Ade may be available early day 3? Or even Jalen Redmond.

* I can't say I know enough about Jalen Redmond, but he looked fantastic at the Combine. He's got great athleticism for a DT. He's on the board if Wharton is off the roster.

* Keondre Coburn is probably not a Chief anymore, with sub-32" arms.

* Moro Ojomo sure looks like Tarzan, but I think he's going to play like Jane. His tape is pretty good, but he did not look very solid in the drills despite being the most physically gifted DT running them in my non-professional estimation.

* I like Bresee's tape, but he didn't look super great in the drills.

* I'm surprised by Keeanu Benton's nimble-ness. Solidly a 2nd rounder to me. Great run stuffer with some upside to do more than that. He's a day one starter next to Chris Jones.

* I do not think Will McDonald or Nolan Smith are going to fall to 31. But if they do, they are foundational pieces who complement Karlaftis and would solidify our bookends for a decade. They are at the top of my board.

* Edge guys we haven't talked a lot about who I think the Chiefs will sniff out later in the draft: YaYa Diaby, Tyler Lacy.

* The 10-yard get off was phenomenal for YaYa -- 1.56 is otherwordly. Guy may sneak into the 2nd day.

* The 10-yard get off for Ade Ade was also fantastic, and I think we may be sleeping on Jalen Redmond. 1.71 at 291 pounds is fantastic, and again, he looked so fluid in the drills.

* Isaiah McGuire is not super physically gifted, but his arms are almost 34" long, his size checks all the Spags boxes, and he had a 1.72 get off, which is more than enough. I think he's a starter down the line, but he doesn't have the flashiness of the other options. If he's available in the 4th he'd be near or at the top of my board.

Mcdonald and Smith are not 4-3 players. Sorry. They're too small. And you don't trade up in the first for a situational pass rusher. I'm sure they'll be great players, but in a 3-4.

[Mecca]

Those guys aren't making it to the Chiefs anyway so it doesn't really matter...

[Couch-Potato]

ESPN's write up on Day 1 Workouts from DL behind paywall...

Spoiler!

DAY 1: DEFENSIVE LINEMEN, LINEBACKERS

Notables who did not work out: Jalen Carter, Myles Murphy, Tyree Wilson, Mazi Smith

What's your biggest takeaway from Thursday's workouts?
Miller: Get ready to hear the word "tweener" a lot following the Thursday night workouts. Two smaller-sized defensive linemen in Pitt's Calijah Kancey and USC's Tuli Tuipulotu were the talk of the town after turning in fantastic all-around workouts.

EDITOR'S PICKS

Pitt's Kancey runs fastest 40 by DT since 2006
17hJeff Legwold

Rankings for the 2023 NFL draft: Top prospects at every position from Kiper, McShay, Miller, Reid
2dMel Kiper Jr., +3 More

The most memorable pre-NFL draft workouts ever: Coaches, scouts, execs make their picks
1dJeff Legwold
Kancey, a 6-foot-1, 281-pound interior rusher, ran a 4.67-second time in the 40-yard dash. He was super productive at Pitt with 14 sacks in the past two seasons. Tuipulotu was tied for the FCS lead with 13.5 sacks in 2022 but was thought too small to play defensive tackle in the NFL. He made that decision for the league by weighing in at 266 pounds, and he showed the speed and quickness that will make him a valuable NFL player with a fantastic on-field workout during positional drills. The interior pass-rusher is en vogue in the NFL right now, and Kancey and Tuipulotu could be next.

Reid: This defensive line class as a whole is fast! Throughout both groups, many prospects displayed their quick first step and long speed. It's one of the deeper position groups in this draft class, and the burst throughout the entire position group was quite evident. Six defensive tackles ran faster than 4.9 seconds in the 40-yard dash.


Biggest risers from Day 1

Bryan Bresee, DT, Clemson: Bresee had a tough 2022 season, dealing with injuries and the death of his sister. He had just 18 tackles and 3.5 sacks over 10 games. But from start to finish on Thursday, Bresee looked the best of the defensive tackle bunch. He posted great numbers, running a 4.86-second 40-yard dash with a 1.71-second 10-yard split. Then during the on-field workouts, Bresee looked fluid, and his change-of-direction skills appeared effortless. His hand strength and ability to redirect were also evident during both the run-the-hoop and run-and-club drills. He plays all positions along the interior but projects best as a 3-technique in the NFL. Right now, Bresee projects as a potential top-25 pick, and his stock is on the rise after an impressive showing. -- Reid


Nolan Smith, OLB, Georgia: Smith entered the 2022 college football season as a potential first-rounder and looked like one before tearing his right pectoral muscle in late October and missing the rest of the season. Just four months removed from the injury, Smith won me over by even participating in the combine. But his workout was outstanding on top of that. At 238 pounds, Smith jumped an incredible 41.5 inches in the vertical jump -- a great number for a defensive back or wide receiver, let alone an edge rusher -- a very respectable 10-foot-8 broad jump. Then he really stole the show with a 4.39-second run in the 40-yard dash. According to ESPN Stats & Information research, he's the second-heaviest player to run a sub-4.4 40 and have a 40-plus-inch vertical at the combine since 2006, behind only 254-pound Vernon Davis. We knew Smith's speed and first-step quickness were outstanding, and his performance confirmed it. My No. 20 overall player could very easily be the second linebacker off the board after Will Anderson Jr. -- Miller

What to know for the 2023 NFL draft

Ranks: Kiper | McShay | Positional
Mocks: Kiper | McShay | Miller | Reid
• Meet top names » | Most polarizing »
• QB Hot Board » | First-round grades »
• Scouting reports » | Order » | More »


Adetomiwa Adebawore, DE, Northwestern: After a strong Senior Bowl performance, the Wildcats defensive lineman had one of the most eye-popping 40 times of the day, running a 4.49 at 282 pounds. That's the fastest time for any 280-plus-pound player at the combine since 2006, according to ESPN Stats & Information. He's a bit of a tweener and spent a lot of time both along the interior and off the edge, so NFL scouts will need to figure out where he fits into their defenses. But Adebawore showcased plenty of explosiveness on tape, posting five sacks and 10.5 tackles for loss in 2022, and those solid traits stood out on Thursday. He added to the blazing 40 time with a 37.5-inch vertical and 10-foot-5 broad jump. Although there are some questions about his position at the next level, he showed that he's a talented player and should be a top-50 pick. -- Reid


Zacch Pickens, DT, South Carolina: A Day 3 prospect at defensive tackle, Pickens made money on Thursday night with a fantastic on-field workout and solid testing times. It started with the weigh-in, where Pickens measured in at 6-4 and 291 pounds with a 34 ⅜-inch arm length -- excellent size for a versatile interior defender. Pickens also impressed with his on-field positional skill drills, showing quickness, flexibility and balance in bag drills. A 4.89-second 40 time will only help make the case for Pickens as a Day 2 player in a thin defensive tackle class. -- Miller


How other top prospects fared on Day 1

Lukas Van Ness, DE, Iowa: A 4.58-second run in the 40-yard dash started the day right for Van Ness. At 6-5 and 272 pounds, Van Ness flashed the speed that has made him a top-15 prospect despite not even starting at Iowa. With very strong on-field drill work -- Van Ness dominated bag drills -- it was a great workout for my No. 3 defensive end. Van Ness' length is obvious watching him work in person, especially when he was whipping through the bags and demonstrating his bend. He also has power and burst in his lower body which make him a special pass-rush prospect. -- Miller


Will Anderson Jr., OLB, Alabama: Even though he's a candidate to be the No. 1 overall pick, Anderson still went out and competed. And in running a 4.60-second 40-yard dash, he didn't do anything to hurt his draft stock. It's a solid time for him, but what was most impressive about his workout was how fluid he looked in situations that he was seldom in at Alabama. That included dropping into coverage, flipping his hips and driving on the ball. Anderson proved that he can turn and run, which means he could fit as a 3-4 outside linebacker at the next level. But he can also put his hand in the dirt for a 4-3 scheme and dominate off the edge. -- Reid


Will McDonald IV, DE, Iowa State: Positional drills looked easy for McDonald, as he effortlessly navigated bag drills and change-of-direction exercises. McDonald is a smooth mover with excellent length (34 ⅞-inch arms), a great vertical of 36 inches and a group-leading broad jump of 11-feet. He has been a riser of late, with Mel Kiper Jr. slotting him No. 8 overall in his most recent mock draft. Despite his 34 sacks and 42.5 tackles for loss over 55 career games, I was skeptical of that grade. But after watching him today, it's easy to see him as a Round 1 player. -- Miller

play
0:21
DT Calijah Kancey impresses with a 4.7 40-yard dashCalijah Kancey starts the combine with a bang as he runs a 4.78, the fastest defensive lineman time so far in the 2023 draft.

Calijah Kancey, DT, Pittsburgh: Despite only running the 40-yard dash, Kancey wowed with a stellar time. He posted a 4.67-second 40-yard dash time, which gives him the fastest time of any defensive tackle since 2006. A bit undersized at 6-1 and 281 pounds, he wins with explosiveness off the line. And his timed speed matched the suddenness and quick first step that are littered throughout his 2022 film. Kancey has the potential to completely alter the interior pass-rush potential for an NFL team's defensive front, and he looks like a mid-to-late Day 1 pick. -- Reid


Drew Sanders, ILB, Arkansas: Sanders opted to not run a 40-yard dash but did take the field for position drills. He was highly impressive in a bag work drill that's designed to show balance, flexibility, foot speed and bend. With 9.5 sacks, two forced fumbles and one interception in 2022, the Alabama transfer was among the most productive all-around linebackers in the class. He's currently ranked at No. 34 overall on my board and is LB2. -- Miller


Trenton Simpson, ILB, Clemson: He suffered a foot injury during the ACC Championship Game, but Simpson looked good in his workout. He ran a 4.43-second 40 time, showcasing the agility and burst that we've seen throughout his career. He played more inside linebacker last year compared to the past, when he was used more in various alignments, but evaluators love his versatility. NFL teams can use Simpson as a blitzer or in the slot to cover tight ends, and he could be a late-Round 1 or early-Round 2 selection. -- Reid


Derick Hall, DE, Auburn: Hall followed up a very strong showing at the Senior Bowl with another really good day in both agility drills and the position-specific work at the combine. Hall's 33.5-inch vertical jump is solid, but his 10-foot-7 broad jump was truly fantastic for his size (6-3, 254 pounds). Hall saved the best for last with a very good workout in the edge-rusher group. His hand power and bend were on display throughout the workout, and he showed easy movement skills working in space. -- Miller

More notes, thoughts and things we heard and saw from Day 1 of workouts
Reid:

Wisconsin defensive tackle Keeanu Benton quietly had a very productive workout. At 6-4 and 309 pounds, he ran a 5.08 40-yard dash but had an impressive 1.79-second 10-yard split. That type of initial burst is what his game is centered around. His power was also frequently seen on Thursday, as his best moments came during the on-field drills where he was able to display the strength in his hands and ability to turn the corner and finish. Currently my fifth-ranked interior defender, Benton carries a second-round grade and could eventually become a top-50 pick.

Washington State linebacker Daiyan Henley really impressed me. Originally starting off as a wide receiver, he transitioned to safety and then finished his career as a linebacker. That diverse skill set and his movement skills were easy to see, as he looked the best of anyone during multiple change-of-direction drills that required him to drop into coverage. The savvy that he learned from playing on the back end has carried over to his new position. A strong Senior Bowl performance catapulted Henley into the third-round discussion, and after a strong showing today, it's hard to imagine him getting out of Day 2.



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Miller:

USC defensive lineman Tuli Tuipulotu was the first weigh-in surprise of the day, when he came in at 266 pounds after being listed at 290 pounds by the Trojans. Thought to be a tweener as a mixture of a defensive tackle and defensive end in college, it's clear now that Tuipulotu intends to line up at end with a weight under 270 pounds. Regardless, he wowed with his quickness and footwork during positional drills and agility work. With 13.5 sacks -- tied for most in the nation last season -- Tuipulotu has movement ability to go with his production.

Alabama's Will Anderson Jr. opted to run just one 40-yard dash versus the two attempts players are allowed. As one of the top-ranked players in the class, Anderson made a statement by not backing out of his workout. That's something NFL scouts love to see -- a player who competes without fear. Anderson's 40 time of 4.60 seconds was solid, and his willingness to participate will further cement his status with scouts.

[Couch-Potato]

I really like Tuipuloto if he falls to us at #31.

At 265 it's clear he's and DE, guys got plenty of speed!

[Couch-Potato]

ESPN's top 5 list for DE, OLB, & DT:

Spoiler!

Kiper

1. Tyree Wilson, Texas Tech
2. Myles Murphy, Clemson
3. Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
4. Keion White, Georgia Tech
5. BJ Ojulari, LSU

McShay

1. Tyree Wilson, Texas Tech
2. Myles Murphy, Clemson
3. Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
4. Zach Harrison, Ohio State
5. Isaiah Foskey, Notre Dame

Reid

1. Tyree Wilson, Texas Tech
2. Myles Murphy, Clemson
3. Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
4. Keion White, Georgia Tech
5. Derick Hall, Auburn

Miller

1. Tyree Wilson, Texas Tech
2. Myles Murphy, Clemson
3. Lukas Van Ness, Iowa
4. Keion White, Georgia Tech
5. Derick Hall, Auburn


Outside linebackers
Kiper

1. Will Anderson Jr., Alabama
2. Will McDonald IV, Iowa State
3. Nolan Smith, Georgia
4. Mike Morris, Michigan
5. Derick Hall, Auburn

McShay

1. Will Anderson Jr., Alabama
2. Andre Carter II, Army
3. Keion White, Georgia Tech
4. Nolan Smith, Georgia
5. BJ Ojulari, LSU

Reid

1. Will Anderson Jr., Alabama
2. Nolan Smith, Georgia
3. BJ Ojulari, LSU
4. Isaiah Foskey, Notre Dame
5. Will McDonald IV, Iowa State

Miller

1. Will Anderson Jr., Alabama
2. Nolan Smith, Georgia
3. BJ Ojulari, LSU
4. Will McDonald IV, Iowa State
5. Daiyan Henley, Washington State


Defensive tackles
Kiper

1. Jalen Carter, Georgia
2. Calijah Kancey, Pittsburgh
3. Bryan Bresee, Clemson
4. Mazi Smith, Michigan
5. Tuli Tuipulotu, USC

McShay

1. Jalen Carter, Georgia
2. Bryan Bresee, Clemson
3. Siaki Ika, Baylor
4. Mazi Smith, Michigan
5. Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin

Reid

1. Jalen Carter, Georgia
2. Bryan Bresee, Clemson
3. Calijah Kancey, Pittsburgh
4. Mazi Smith, Michigan
5. Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin

Miller

1. Jalen Carter, Georgia
2. Bryan Bresee, Clemson
3. Mazi Smith, Michigan
4. Calijah Kancey, Pittsburgh
5. Tuli Tuipulotu, USC

[Couch-Potato]

Feels like this DL class is gettin a lot of praise, super fast! Hope we get a couple!

[Couch-Potato]

So... how bout Mazi Smith in the 1st?

He's not been talked about much, fits a need, got in a little trouble so he'll be there likely at the bottom of #1 but prob not the bottom of #2. What do you guys think of him playing next to CJ?