Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

[Bowser]

Maybe it's overkill having a thread for this, but meh.

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

...you're saying it because the Gorn depiction isn't close to the 1960s television version (which employed a silly 1960s clunky costume which solely was a product of the budget and technology of the era).

No, I'm not, and I never have. No one has. That's what you keep saying over and over again. That's what makes it a straw man.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by listopencil

No, I'm not, and I never have. No one has. That's what you keep saying over and over again. That's what makes it a straw man.

Frazod has said it outright and you have implied it, but sure, I'll humor you. Why isn't their depiction actually the Gorn then?

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Frazod has said it outright and you have implied it, but sure, I'll humor you. Why isn't their depiction actually the Gorn then?

Don't put words in my mouth, you lying piece of shit. I never said it. Nobody ever said it. Nobody is pining for a bunch of guys in a green lizard suits from 55 years ago to be the heavies in a modern TV show, no matter how many times your stupid ass posts a picture of one. The problem, which everybody but you understands, is that they fundamentally changed everything about the Gorn to make it into a super adversary that no human could ever have defeated in single, unarmed combat. Even though the principal hero of the show did, in fact, defeat one in single, unarmed combat.

Period. The end.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Much like many of the characters, the Gorn have been supersized. I'm sure I said it before, but how in the hell did the lumbering brute from TOS turn into a combination of Alien/Predator? I understand the need to update the 60s stuff for modern audiences, but that absolutely shits all over established canon. Kirk wouldn't have lasted a minute against one of those things with no weapons or armor. Hell, Mike Tyson in his prime wouldn't have lasted a minute against one.

I hope they'll fix this somehow (perhaps as Gorns get older they become bulky and slow and lose their ten foot long whiplash murder tails), but I doubt it.

I realize that I don't represent SNW's intended audience (or any modern show's intended audience, for that matter) but goddamn, they really took this one too far. I wish they'd simply made them a brand new species. I'd have had zero problems with that.

Originally Posted by Frazod

Sometimes I forget how you love to argue just for the sake of arguing.

"Updating the 60s stuff" and "supersizing" aren't the same thing. Redesigning the bridge is updating. Turning a slow, hulking brute into a velociraptor that infects its victims with its larvae is supersizing.

Originally Posted by Frazod

Again, you're so busy being obtuse that you completely miss the point. Of course you can update things. That is to be expected. I mentioned the bridge before - that is perhaps the coolest thing in Star Trek ever. Hell, I didn't care that they altered the look of the Klingons in the first movie, or the Romulans in NG. But changing the entire nature of something goes far beyond updating. The updated Klingons just had long hair, bad teeth and ridges on their foreheads - they weren't suddenly ten feet tall with tentacles sprouting out of their backs. They could have made menacing CGI Gorns that are better and more realistic than some guy stomping around in a green costume 55 years ago that didn't completely piss on established canon.

Explain how Kirk, alone and unarmed, could survive against an "updated" Gorn long enough to locate and identify the components of gunpowder, and then construct a bamboo mortar. Good luck with that. I guess they could just supersize him into Captain America or Superman; that would be as silly as what they've already done, but hey, modern audiences, right?

Yeah, this clown totally never bitched about the 2023 Gorn updated terrorizing depiction being too far away from the lumbering 1967 version and cried for something that didn't bastardize canon. Definitely never happened.

Do you guys even read how ridiculous some of these complaints are? Insanity that this is even a point of discussion at all.

[KC_Connection]

Just think. They're gonna make some great Trek series in like 60 years that will change the Gorn again to fit a 2080s audience and some oldhead on some Internet forum somewhere (in whatever form the Internet is in at that point) is gonna complain it didn't stick to the canon established in SNW.

[Frazod]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Yeah, this clown totally never bitched about the 2023 Gorn updated terrorizing depiction being too far away from the lumbering 1967 version and cried for something that didn't bastardize canon. Definitely never happened.

Do you guys even read how ridiculous some of these complaints are? Insanity that this is even a point of discussion at all.

Everybody seems to read just fine, other than you. Thanks for quoting all the stuff that makes my point. I really don't need any help making you look like a ****ing idiot, though.

And you can shove your thumbs down straight up your bitch ass. And again, thanks for all the thumbs up votes I get every time I point out what a ****ing moron you are.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Frazod

Everybody seems to read just fine, other than you. Thanks for quoting all the stuff that makes my point. I really don't need any help making you look like a ****ing idiot, though.

Quoting the stuff that shows you bitching about the depiction of the Gorn compared to the 1960s version and hilariously whining about the damage this allegedly does to canon proves your point, does it? Absolute insanity.

And you can shove your thumbs down straight up your bitch ass. And again, thanks for all the thumbs up votes I get every time I point out what a ****ing moron you are.

If I knew how much a single down vote would trigger you, I would have done it much earlier.

[Discuss Thrower]

You're all complaining about how updating the Gorn violates canon..?

**** guys, they violated canon by changing the Trill from rubber ridged forehead aliens who can't use the transporter to leopard spotted near humans who have no problem using the transporter. And did so in the span of three years and not five decades.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Discuss Thrower

You're all complaining about how updating the Gorn violates canon..?

**** guys, they violated canon by changing the Trill from rubber ridged forehead aliens who can't use the transporter to leopard spotted near humans who have no problem using the transporter. And did so in the span of three years and not five decades.

It's only a small few, but it still has been absolutely bizarre to see it. If someone is seriously spending any time at all dwelling on the idea that the 2023 Gorn violate 1960s TOS canon because Captain Kirk could no longer beat one of these lizards in hand-to-hand combat, some perspective seems to badly be needed. No modern Trek is ever gonna satisfy them if that's the standard.

[crayzkirk]

I haven't seen season 2 however I enjoyed the season 1 episode with the Gorn. Enterprise had a Gorn episode and it was nothing like the TOS version. The Romulans are different, the Klingons are different. TNG introduced the Borg as the big bad and then neutered them completely. Don't know about DS9 because I couldn't get past the first season. Maybe all the messing around with the time line has altered the Gorn, or like one of the species on Enterprise, there's multiple strains. Perhaps the slow, plodding Gorn is the male and the scary one is the female.

Can't we just enjoy that we have a decent ST again? Enterprise had Borg working with the Nazi and rewrote history. I'm all for making things more interesting and to heck with any 'canon'. It's a freaking TV show.

Oh yeah, Han DID shoot first. Good guys can do bad things and bad guys can do good things. Let it go...

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by crayzkirk

Can't we just enjoy that we have a decent ST again? Enterprise had Borg working with the Nazi and rewrote history. I'm all for making things more interesting and to heck with any 'canon'. It's a freaking TV show.

Oh yeah, Han DID shoot first. Good guys can do bad things and bad guys can do good things. Let it go...

The multiverse timeline has been reset. Everything is new to this specific timeline. Kirk exists but it’s not the same Kirk etc.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Hold up, you're calling someone else obtuse when you're bitching about SNW altering canon by changing a ridiculous Gorn design from a 1960s no-budget television show to something actually threatening and menacing 60 years later?

This is literally the last thing anybody should be dwelling on, particularly given how effective both the Gorn-related episodes have been.

He's not talking about making the special effects much better, he's talking about writing characters to be much more than they were originally. Why is that so hard?

[Lzen]

FTR, I really like the Gorn episodes. But I have to say that I agree with frazod's points about the Gorn and SNW.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by Lzen

He's not talking about making the special effects much better, he's talking about writing characters to be much more than they were originally. Why is that so hard?

No, that was what he (and others) were complaining about before with respect to Uhura being depicted differently than 60 years ago (as a character with her own story/development now rather than a background character in service of the Big 3 in the 1960s).

This latest complaint involved the design changes to the Gorn and the hilarious bitching that 1960s Kirk would no longer be able to win a hand-to-hand combat fight against this type of lizard person thereby breaking canon.

[Mephistopheles Janx]

Originally Posted by listopencil

Imagine swapping a ST:SNW Gorn into the ST:TOS episode and having Kirk fight it. It wouldn't work.

The new Gorn would have shredded Kirk before he had the change to clasp his hands together to give them his patented two handed slap/punch.